Southern Railway Modelling - Miscellaneous Project work

[Jack P]

With thanks to Nick Holiday, and credit to the original publisher, I now have this drawing of an N15x

 

 

A very helpful drawing indeed, a small detail i'd missed was that the footplate at the cab end does not line up with the tender, which I thought it did. I also though (foolishly) that the tender would've retained the curly hand brake, but after seeing a few other detail photos, I see that they actually had a standard one.

 

Now for some notes on the prototype i've chosen (which I must add, are courtesy of the HMRS Stewards, specifically John H, who is the Southern Specific Steward) ; (3)2331 'Beattie'  Went for a general 8-9/44 and was painted black, It didn't gain malachite until late in 1947, towards the end of November, when it went in for its next general. I also note from the photo John sent me, which I will ask if I can post perhaps,  showing (3)2331 in October of 1950, still with 'SOUTHERN' on the tender, and due to the relatively recent overhaul, just the cabside number changed with the added 3. It also shows here that it's front buffers were the SR stepped, square base type. Notes from 'British Railways Illustrated July 2000' stat that 'Beattie' also had the smoke deflector brackets added in 1947, but does not have them present in the 1950's photo - it does state that they came and went between the class members in 'bewildering fashion' - If anyone has any information to the contrary or to add, please don't hesitate to let me know.

 

 

I must apologise that there hasn't been much progress with the actual kit, I am waiting on a few things to arrive before I press forward, these are primarily soldering iron tips, and whitemetal solder. Once these have arrived and i'm confident, the first job will be to tackle the boiler. I fear I shall have to lose the rivets on the smokebox in shaping and sanding it round - I think i've got the hang of the rivet transfers enough to compensate for this though. the rest of the parts fit together well, and will hopefully require minimum adjustment to go together well. I am working on the process of detailing the boiler backhead, for this purpose I've decided to follow what DLT does, and make the backhead/cab floor removable, however before I can go about adding delicate parts, the cab needs to be attached to the boiler.

 

The other thing i'm now wanting to do is to add the springs under the loco. I just need to figure out where to get them from (if you have any suggestions - let me know!). I understand that it must seem like a lot of faffing about, I'm hoping very shortly it should all speed up - I must point out too, this is the first kit i've tackled, and I would like for it to be as right as possible, which is why i'm taking my time and doing as much research as I can.

 

Thanks for reading, liking, commenting and giving me advice to all of you that read/lurk, it doesn't go unnoticed!

 

 

 

- Oh, and thanks to a very kind RMWebber i've just gone and bought another kit..   

Edited June 20, 2018 by Jack P

[jrg1]

Interesting class with a unique history.  You could try piercing out the springs in brass or nickel silver-stick a copy of the spring onto the metal as a pattern to saw out.  A lot easier than it seems.  I would do the same for the coil springs, although if you wanted a 3D effect, build up with brass BA screw threads for the springs. Good Luck with the build-very entertaining.

[Jack P]

Interesting class with a unique history.  You could try piercing out the springs in brass or nickel silver-stick a copy of the spring onto the metal as a pattern to saw out.  A lot easier than it seems.  I would do the same for the coil springs, although if you wanted a 3D effect, build up with brass BA screw threads for the springs. Good Luck with the build-very entertaining.

 

Thank you for your kind words! I'm sure there are white-metal loco springs available, but your idea of using BA screws for the centre springs is a great idea! I was also thinking of adding compensation, however I'm not really sure how I could go about it, there's no provision in the side-frames for hornblocks, I suppose I could cut the space out and fit them - I need to read through DLT's thread again, but if anyone has any suggestions, please let me know!

[Wickham Green]

On the advice of Chris KT, I changed the number on my N class

 

 

According to Railuk (3)1405 was allocated to Stewarts Lane in 1948 at the time of nationalization, which works for me.

I also received an order from Markits, I must say that dealing with Mark, the owner, was an absolute breeze from the other side of the world, postage costs were reasonable, and the order was here within a week.

 

 

I'm not sure what advice Chris gave you on that - but 1405 was one of the last batch of 'N's which - so far as I know - always ran with 4000 gallon tenders !

[Jack P]

I'm not sure what advice Chris gave you on that - but 1405 was one of the last batch of 'N's which - so far as I know - always ran with 4000 gallon tenders !

 

Haha, his advice was that 1408 was LHD not RHD as depicted here, I must be getting very confused about what examples ran with what, where there any RHD ones that start with 140x that ran with these tenders?

 

Chris's advice wasn't bad, I just wasn't specific enough!

[Wickham Green]

Haha, his advice was that 1408 was LHD not RHD as depicted here, I must be getting very confused about what examples ran with what, where there any RHD ones that start with 140x that ran with these tenders?

 

Chris's advice wasn't bad, I just wasn't specific enough!

'fraid not - as I said all that batch ran with the larger tenders whether left or right-handed ...... though there may have been a few with 3500gal ones right at the end. Unfortunately you'll have to change the 4 to an 8 and the 0's no use either ! 

 

I'm sure Chris gave you the right answer - bur was he asked the right question ??!?

[jrg1]

Thank you for your kind words! I'm sure there are white-metal loco springs available, but your idea of using BA screws for the centre springs is a great idea! I was also thinking of adding compensation, however I'm not really sure how I could go about it, there's no provision in the side-frames for hornblocks, I suppose I could cut the space out and fit them - I need to read through DLT's thread again, but if anyone has any suggestions, please let me know!

Guy Williams book had ideas on simple compensation-slotting the middle axle and allowing the axle to move vertically in a sprung tube was the simplest.

[Jack P]

'fraid not - as I said all that batch ran with the larger tenders whether left or right-handed ...... though there may have been a few with 3500gal ones right at the end. Unfortunately you'll have to change the 4 to an 8 and the 0's no use either ! 

 

I'm sure Chris gave you the right answer - bur was he asked the right question ??!?

 

Ah, I have a feeling that the photo is a bit dark, but I can confirm that the tender the model has is one of the slope sided ones, If this is still wrong let me know and I will endeavor to correct it! Thank for your input so far though, I would rather be told it's wrong, and get it right, than have people tell me it looks ok, when it's wrong!

 

 

Guy Williams book had ideas on simple compensation-slotting the middle axle and allowing the axle to move vertically in a sprung tube was the simplest.

 

I need to figure out where the motor will be mounted, rear or middle axle and then I can decide on compensation from there, even just a little bit would be better than nothing! Thanks for the book suggestion!

 

A sooner than expected update on the N15x, I received the chisel tip soldering iron tips I'd been waiting for, so I soldered the bearings to the frames (which I realise now will make compensation that much harder), and fitted the turned Markits frame spacers, although the screws don't sit flush, the holes in the frames need to be shaped before final assembly. 

 

 

Of course having got this far, I took the opportunity to fit up the wheels, and crank-pins, as well as the coupling rods to make sure that the chassis was square. Overwhelming elation followed, when it proved that with the slightest touch it would roll away freely.

 

 

Of course I couldn't help going a step further and posing some of the body pieces with the chassis, and with the aid of some Blu-Tack..

 

 

Please excuse the wonky footplate, of course none of this is final, and I still need to wait for the whitemetal solder before work on the body can begin in earnest, but this is exciting progress, well, for me it is anyway!

[chris45lsw]

'fraid not - as I said all that batch ran with the larger tenders whether left or right-handed ...... though there may have been a few with 3500gal ones right at the end. Unfortunately you'll have to change the 4 to an 8 and the 0's no use either ! 

 

I'm sure Chris gave you the right answer - bur was he asked the right question ??!?

I wasn't asked - I commented unprompted! :-)   I simply advised Jack that his, then, 1408 should be LH drive so he changed it to 1405.  And, superficially it had (and still has) a 4000 gal tender with turned in top.  BUT what I didn't spot before is that Jack has put his spare 4000 gal body on the underframe of a 3500 gal tender.  And, of course they are very different ie no cut outs between the axle boxes with the 4000 for example.  So, if you want a 1400-1406 series N you need to source a whole 4000 gal tender, Jack. (or acquire a complete 1400-1406 N - Hattons want £131 for a new one but they have several from £47!).

 

Chris KT

[John Tomlinson]

Hi Jack, if your chassis "rolls away freely with the slightest touch", if I were you I'd

 

1) be really happy, and

 

2) forget about messing with compensation, as it will be a lot of trouble and will probably give no discernable improvement at all. I know you follow "Wright writes", and he would certainly advocate that it isn't worth it, in OO anyway.

 

Please forgive my presumption.

 

John.

[DLT]

Thank you for your kind words! I'm sure there are white-metal loco springs available, but your idea of using BA screws for the centre springs is a great idea! I was also thinking of adding compensation, however I'm not really sure how I could go about it, there's no provision in the side-frames for hornblocks, I suppose I could cut the space out and fit them - I need to read through DLT's thread again, but if anyone has any suggestions, please let me know!

 

I've never found any need for compensation in 00, especially on a massive whitemetal 4-6-0.  Plenty of weight to keep it one the track.  If you're concerned about pickup, adding some on the tender should fix it.

 

As for spring detail, all you will see is a vague shape through the spokes, so it doesnt have to be particularly well detailed.  I usually just solder something up from odd bits of brass.

I've used the method of sticking the drawing to the brass and cutting out, but only when I'm building a whole new chassis.  Not really neccessary when adding detail to an existing one.  

 

Anyway, good luck, its looking great so far.

Cheers, Dave.

[DLT]

.... Overwhelming elation followed, when it proved that with the slightest touch it would roll away freely.

 

And there's your answer; Any need for compensation?

 

Of course I couldn't help going a step further and posing some of the body pieces with the chassis, and with the aid of some Blu-Tack.

.

Very nice it looks too, those Nu-cast parts look superb.

 

All the best, Dave.

Edited June 22, 2018 by DLT

[jrg1]

If you still want to consider compensation, a fixed rear driver and beams for the first and second axle-as PDK supplies-are a relatively simple addition.  If you have built the chassis and it rolls OK, why bother?

[mattingleycustom]

I'm not sure what advice Chris gave you on that - but 1405 was one of the last batch of 'N's which - so far as I know - always ran with 4000 gallon tenders !

 

But the photo shows 1405 is paired with the correct 4000 gallon tender; these have the turned in tops to the sides and the rise in the running plate at the cab end over the steps.

 

Confused of North End

Edited June 24, 2018 by mattingleycustom

[Jack P]

Confused of North End

 

I think to sum it up, the loco is now correct - except that the tender frames are incorrect for the slope sided tender. Chris KT is right in that I put a 4000gal body on the 3500gal frames. This means I need to replace the chassis of the tender for it to be finally correct! Thanks to Wickham Green and Chris KT for helping me get it right though.

 

Dave, John, and Jrg1, Thank you for your kind words. So very satisfying to watch it roll with no issues (so far).

 

As for spring details, Dave, if I was cutting the frames out from brass I would definitely include them - What do you use to cut them when you do this? If I can't find springs, I'll either look at making them from scrap brass, or maybe pass on them for now. 

 

As for the compensation, I suppose if the chassis rolls freely then you're right, there's no need. I guess I just thought maybe it would be a requirement, as even the diminutive B4 has a compensated front axle. If there are any track holding problems i'll address it, however with that massive whitemetal body - I doubt it.

[Jack P]

As if I needed another kit to go on with before finishing either of the ones I have already, but thanks to another member on here, I now (FINALLY) have an LBSC K class kit! It's an old Keyser kit, and is mostly complete, the main thing missing is the Maunsell pattern cab, which is an issue because the original Brighton cab won't suit the period I model - no worries though, I did think about either scratch-building or 3D printing. I'll cross that bridge when I come to it. I will be ordering a few detail bits from Markits, as well as new wheels. 

 

 

I've fitted everything together here with blu-tack, and it all seems to go together well. Very impressed with the quality of the castings, the boiler is very nice and so is the footplate assembly. I spent a little time last night on getting the dome and chimney fitting nicely. 

 

 

This is probably all that will happen for the time being with this, I want to get the N15x well underway before I move on to anything else. I have placed an order for some SR pattern brake shoes and Whitemetal springs, along with whitemetal solder, these should see some serious progress. I need to look into what motor/gearbox options would suit both the N15x, and the K. As per usual, any suggestions, let me know!

Edited June 26, 2018 by Jack P

[NHY 581]

Blimey that's looking good already!!!!!

 

 

 

Rob.

[Jack P]

Blimey that's looking good already!!!!!

 

 

 

Rob.

 

 

Just put the bits together with blu-tack! The castings are very good quality!

[Wickham Green]

I wasn't asked - I commented unprompted! :-)   I simply advised Jack that his, then, 1408 should be LH drive so he changed it to 1405.  And, superficially it had (and still has) a 4000 gal tender with turned in top.  BUT what I didn't spot before is that Jack has put his spare 4000 gal body on the underframe of a 3500 gal tender.  And, of course they are very different ie no cut outs between the axle boxes with the 4000 for example.  So, if you want a 1400-1406 series N you need to source a whole 4000 gal tender, Jack. (or acquire a complete 1400-1406 N - Hattons want £131 for a new one but they have several from £47!).

 

Chris KT

I spotted the cut-out frames but not the turned-in top ! ............ anyway, the answer MIGHT be lurking in the background of the 2nd photo on post 286 .......... IF you can marry up the Backmann slope-side / step-frame body with a Hornby 'Schools' tender chassis. ( or track down a battered old Airfix kit as a frames donor )

Edited June 26, 2018 by Wickham Green

[sem34090]

I wish people gave me those kinds of generous offers!!!

 

Insanely jealous, but good to see some more ex-LBSCR stuff here.

[Jack P]

I spotted the cut-out frames but not the turned-in top ! ............ anyway, the answer MIGHT be lurking in the background of the 2nd photo on post 286 .......... IF you can marry up the Backmann slope-side / step-frame body with a Hornby 'Schools' tender chassis. ( or track down a battered old Airfix kit as a frames donor )

 

That's an ingenious Idea. I'll pull the N out tonight and see how much hacking is required to get that idea to work. Alternatively, there is just a chassis on eBay, so I might pick that up if the splicing fails.  Thank you for your input so far. Very helpful - please keep it up!

 

I wish people gave me those kinds of generous offers!!!

 

Insanely jealous, but good to see some more ex-LBSCR stuff here.

 

I quickly calculated that with all of the additional parts It needs/I want, it becomes a very expensive exercise. It certainly was a very nice offer, It never ceases to amaze me how kind people can be, especially to someone on the other side of the world! I'm certainly going to be adding more LBSC and probably SECR to the collection. My modelling focus will be moving more towards the central section, which means I can run a larger range of stock.

 

 

 

I also thought i'd share two things here - the first is the release of 3D printed models of the E5x/E6x, A member on here has been working with Tony Teague in order to get these out, to fill some of the gaps in his quest to attain the SR A-Z. Click here to check them out. I know some people have some reservations about 3D printing, but these are currently not available in kit form, so it's nice to now have the option available!

 

I've also been talking with Fox Transfers, about the required transfers to finish off my repainted gate stock set - Click here to check them out. These are currently not available from any other supplier, so I approached Fox and they were happy to work with me to get them correct. I'm sure they will have other uses than just the gate stock set

 

The usual disclaimer - no affiliation other than as a satisfied customer! 

[Jack P]

Seems like I constantly have new things on the go

 

 

 

I found a use for the whitemetal lump that was supposed to be vacuum tanks, that came with the N15x, much better than the Bachmann representation. I know the Hornby LN is due for release soon(ish), but I thought I would have a go at updating this tender. The reason I didn't cut out the second coal area was that after doing the first, destroying most of the details and having to rebuild them, I didn't fancy it, also the molded coal isn't too bad, it's not too high so some coal over the top will disguise it nicely. I've detailed a few little bits so far, and added sprung buffers, I need to add the lamp irons before I prime and paint. Should be interesting lining it out, lots of complex curves! 

 

This is going to be a 'Neverwas' of sorts, because what I plan to model did run but not during 1947. I wonder who will be able to guess what it is.. 

Edited June 28, 2018 by Jack P

[NHY 581]

"Cough........Schools!!!.......Cough.....cough...."

[Jack P]

"Cough........Schools!!!.......Cough.....cough...."

 

Hmmmmmmmmmmmmmm

[Jack P]

Gosh, lining really takes a while. I'm still not happy with it either. I should probably learn to use a bow pen..

 

 

I added the rear lamp irons, Still need to add the Vac hose. Even after doing my best to bring this up to date, it still shows its age.

Not finished by any means. The buffer beam needs another coat of paint and the buffers need painting, there's a few other paint touch-ups. I'll be finishing off the rear of the tender later tonight. 

Edited February 11, 2019 by Jack P