Southern Railway Modelling - Miscellaneous Project work

[Jack P]

Hi mate,

 

Your lining attempt isn't too bad at all for a first go, and remember if on the finished product anything is too bad or you're not 100% happy with it, weathering can hide it.

 

Also regarding the two different shades of paint, if the tender had a quick patch repair, the paint might not 100% match up if it was just "thrown" on it. So that's another effect you could use if you wish.

 

Cheers bud, luckily this is just a test piece, I have a few spare bits floating around from donor locos. The real struggle is getting the lines straight, any tips? The other hassle is getting those corners right, i'm using 2 pieces with some micro-sol and coercing them into place with a cocktail stick, but they don't look right.

 

 

I was thinking about that, it's certainly nice to have the tonal difference, especially for patch painting, I may use it actually, just need to find an appropriate subject - The only issue is that i've run out of the humbrol paint, so I need to wait till family either go overseas, or come back, to get my Phoenix Malachite green! 

Edited June 4, 2018 by Jack P

[Brocp]

Hmrs can be a pain to get in to those corners like that, really the best thing is to use what you are doing, microsol to soften it and then nudging it in to place as best you can. I presume the Southern sheets come with lining pre-shaped for the tenders like the LMS lining does?

[Jack P]

On 04/06/2018 at 21:24, Brocp said:

Hmrs can be a pain to get in to those corners like that, really the best thing is to use what you are doing, microsol to soften it and then nudging it in to place as best you can. I presume the Southern sheets come with lining pre-shaped for the tenders like the LMS lining does?

 

They only do a specific lining sheet for Bulleid locos, I know that Fox does a transfer sheet for both the King Arthur and the Schools class, but i think with some practice I should be able to get it sorted, might play around with where I place the curve. It's all just trial and error!

 

 

 

Added the small hook that holds the coupling on the back of the tender, I think it needs another bend in it to get more in-line with the buffer beam, it doesn't foul the bogie (only just though) so maybe it will be ok when painted. 

 

Also used Humbrol no:2 Gloss green to paint the donor KA's wheels, lined them last night, I think the colour is quite close to malachite, needs a little more blue in it, but i'm hoping to get my hands on some Phoenix post-war Malachite as soon as I can.

Edited February 13, 2019 by Jack P

[jrg1]

Haha, as I've said before, ask ten modellers about soldering, you'll get ten different answers!

 

For whitemetal I use Carrs 70 Degree solder, and Green Label flux, with a 15watt iron.

 

 

Quite so.  The metal has to be really shiny, scrape/file the surface down to bare metal.  You can blob the solder on with the iron and let it run through with LOTS of flux.  It acts as quite a good filler as well. 

You need to be fairly quick, as the flux tarnishes, but it can be washed out with water.

As JRG has said, practice on scrap bits first, or build a "sacrificial" kit, that you can make all your mistakes on before getting down to your best kit.

The main problems that arise with any sort of soldering are usually caused by the joint not being clean enough, and/or not enough heat.  This goes for whitemetal as well, as often the parts are big lumps that need heat. 

Cheers, Dave.

Large WM components are heat sinks, and this needs to be borne in mind; conversely, if the components get too hot, they will dissolve into a blob.  That is why I use a temperature controlled iron-for large areas, a large spade bit can be better-more heat at the tip ie less dissipated by the WM.  

I meant to say Carr's 70 WM solder with Red Label flux works best for me.

[DLT]

Ah yes, HMRS transfers.  No specific SR lining, but the LNER loco sheet has black & white:  https://hmrs.org.uk/transfers/lner-locomotive-lining-150353.html

Likewise, the LMS loco lining features black & yellow:  https://hmrs.org.uk/transfers/lms-locomotive-lining-150333.html  but the yellow is a rather pale lemon shade which may be wrong for Southern.

LMS coach lining:  https://hmrs.org.uk/transfers/lms-coach-lining-150338.html  might help.

Not sure if this helps!

Dave.

[Jack P]

Ah yes, HMRS transfers.  No specific SR lining, but the LNER loco sheet has black & white:  https://hmrs.org.uk/transfers/lner-locomotive-lining-150353.html

Likewise, the LMS loco lining features black & yellow:  https://hmrs.org.uk/transfers/lms-locomotive-lining-150333.html  but the yellow is a rather pale lemon shade which may be wrong for Southern.

LMS coach lining:  https://hmrs.org.uk/transfers/lms-coach-lining-150338.html  might help.

Not sure if this helps!

 

Thanks Dave,

 

I actually did a big order recently, pretty much relegated the whole order to learning how to use lining. I also picked up the LMS coaching sheet as you suggested, because the yellow-black-yellow looks to be perfect for boiler bands. Here's hoping its not too much of a different shade to the general yellow lining!

 

Unfortunately the LNER sheet has nothing for me, as I need black and yellow, but i'm sure if I was into olive green they would come in very handy. I'm not looking forward to doing the N15x splashers

[John Tomlinson]

Looking at #252 & #254, I'd be doubtful if you'll do any better than this with transfer lining. My own experience of same is that it's almost impossible to keep dead straight, most makes I've dealt with stretch as you fiddle to get them right, and if you pull too much they just break!

 

Whilst my standards may well be a bit slack, I don't really see what's wrong with these outcomes, given that your locos work on a layout and aren't going to be under a microscope in a museum. As far as the curve on the tender goes, your close up shot isn't remotely how you'll see it when in use.

 

Wild Swan published a book on "Painting & Lining" by Ian Rathbone, and if you don't already have this it  might be worth a read as to how to achieve what is probably the ultimate in finishing quality. You can then decide how far you really want to go.

 

Hope this helps!

 

John.

[Jack P]

Looking at #252 & #254, I'd be doubtful if you'll do any better than this with transfer lining. My own experience of same is that it's almost impossible to keep dead straight, most makes I've dealt with stretch as you fiddle to get them right, and if you pull too much they just break!

 

Whilst my standards may well be a bit slack, I don't really see what's wrong with these outcomes, given that your locos work on a layout and aren't going to be under a microscope in a museum. As far as the curve on the tender goes, your close up shot isn't remotely how you'll see it when in use.

 

Wild Swan published a book on "Painting & Lining" by Ian Rathbone, and if you don't already have this it  might be worth a read as to how to achieve what is probably the ultimate in finishing quality. You can then decide how far you really want to go.

 

Hope this helps!

 

John.

 

Thanks John, I appreciate that. I guess when I have the extremely fine tampo printed Hornby model to compare it too, it's always going to look heavy handed.

 

I do have that book on my radar, need to pick up a copy, it's already been suggested to me by a few other members. I suppose I would always like to be better, there are so many excellent finescale modellers here, so sometimes it's hard not to hold yourself to that same standard because it becomes so commonplace. That being said, I can just take a look back to where I was when I started this thread, and see that I've improved. Lots of this has been learning by doing, and on the good advice of the people here.

 

But I appreciate your comments and I do agree, from normal viewing distances, even on my workbench, it looks ok.

 

Speaking of OK,

 

 

A burst of energy saw me up late finishing the numbering on 'Vivien'. 

 

 

Here she is with the already re-named/numbered 'Joyous Gard'. I do now realise, after looking in my copy of 'The Big four in colour' there is still more to do in this area.

 

 

Ladders, and the electric lighting. I'll have to get some more lights before I give that a go. In the mean time I've got an M7 to amend. 

[Mallard60022]

The Z class kit is listed by Phoenix Paints.

That kit is a cracker.....however I believe the bunker sides to footplate shape isn't quite right and should either be slightly angled to narrower at the back or dead straight; I can't remember which way round that was as my example was lost to an ex RMWebber at a bargain price as he really wanted one ............. who then sold it on a few weeks later for quite a profit. I was not amused at the time.    

Phil

[John Tomlinson]

Jack, many thanks for your response and the interesting pictures. I never realised that some of the N15's had steps at the back of the tender in the style of Bulleid's Pacifics.

 

Whilst I'd wholeheartedly agree with you that there are some very good modellers on RM Web, I think there are very few folk period who can now match the quality of finish of our best RTR, when it involves any kind of sophistication and lining. It isn't that long ago when our home applied transfer lining knocked the spots off the very coarse efforts of the manufacturers, but not anymore. I think as well some of the efforts we see photographed on various places on here are repaints or kit built products that have been finished by someone other than the owner or builder. One example of this is Tony Wright, who to his great credit is completely honest in being clear about who did what on a particular model.

 

For myself as a BR period modeller, life is not so difficult, the steam kits I've built are mainly black, although I did a GC Sam Fay in a stab at their livery many years ago. Diesels can be quite time consuming, green body, grey roof, yellow warning panel and black underframe, but nothing really elaborate, you just have to let each bit dry properly!

 

John.

Edited June 6, 2018 by John Tomlinson

[DLT]

That kit is a cracker.....however I believe the bunker sides to footplate shape isn't quite right and should either be slightly angled to narrower at the back or dead straight; I can't remember which way round that was as my example was lost to an ex RMWebber at a bargain price as he really wanted one ............. who then sold it on a few weeks later for quite a profit. I was not amused at the time.    

Phil

 

Ah yes, I know exactly who you mean....

 

The Z kit is designed for the bunker to be tapered, which is incorrect.  The bunker IS narrower than the tanks, but not tapered, there is a step-in at the cab entrance.

I guess that confusion may have become from the fact that the footplate is tapered, front and back.

I have seen a photo that shows this clearly, but I can't find it online.

 

Cheers, Dave.

[Jack P]

I can't remember which way round that was as my example was lost to an ex RMWebber at a bargain price as he really wanted one ............. who then sold it on a few weeks later for quite a profit. I was not amused at the time.    

 

I think some of that was present in DLT's thread when he was constructing the DMR Z. It's a real shame, If I had been around then, I would've had it off ya - you'd only have to put up with a livery change!

 

Jack, many thanks for your response and the interesting pictures. I never realised that some of the N15's had steps at the back of the tender in the style of Bulleid's Pacifics.

 

Neither did I! I did have a sneaking suspicion because i've seen a few photos of other oil fitted locos with the lights and steps, but hadn't seen a photo to confirm. In what is think is 'Southern steam on shed' there's a photo of a T9 (I think), being fueled at an oil depot on shed, a very interesting scene. They mention that there were buildings erected specially for the oil burning trials, and then go on to mention the astronomical waste of money this turned out to be!

 

As for the quality of models, I absolutely agree, when RTR manufacturers get it right, they do an amazing job. I think my aim is more of a consistent level of modelling, build them myself, paint and weather them myself. While Tony does have a few of his models finished off by other people, he is also talented enough to finish them himself, although from what I understand, he often builds locos for people in exchange for the painting of his own, I suppose he just prefers one over the other!

 

I guess that confusion may have become from the fact that the footplate is tapered, front and back.

I have seen a photo that shows this clearly, but I can't find it online.

 

I think there was a photo in your thread, I did have a look and see if I could find it but no luck. I'm sure the book on the Z class might have a photo showing this though, i'll have a squiz tonight!

Edited June 7, 2018 by Jack P

[Jack P]

 

Making progress on the M7, removing the wing plates certainly changes the 'face' quite drastically, I'll need to put some new lamp irons on though, as the Hornby ones came off with the re-shaping. I'm hoping with a coat of paint should bring everything together. Next up is filling in the coal rails.

 

 

I also have these ladders spare, and they are perfect for the tender of the oil burning KA

Edited June 8, 2018 by Jack P

[Jack P]

M7 got a lick of paint, just by brush, will go over again with the airbrush when i'm next using it though. Coal rails filled in and wing-plates removed.

 

 

 

Also added some details to the N15x tender, from photos it seems that th detail was asymmetrical as it's been represented here, although again it looks different across different class members.

 

 

I've also been sent a photo of a 'Beattie'  in 1948 Malachite green livery in this photo the loco doesn't have the LBSC round base buffers, it has the square base SR buffers. I need to do some research as to when it was outfitted with the LBSC buffers, because they were certainly there later. A very helpful photo tho have though.

 

Hopefully more progress when whitemetal solder arrives.

Edited June 10, 2018 by Jack P

[Jack P]

 

More lining practice. Having much more success with the straight lines using water as opposed to micro-sol, still need to use it on corners, but it's starting to get easier.

[Brocp]

Looks great Jack. I've reverted back to water first too, the newer hmrs transfers don't like microsol as much as the older ones do. You should be pleased with your results.

[Jack P]

Thanks Broc, I think the microsol was the reason the straight lines were going all wavy. they seem to not want to move at all when you use water, so the key is just getting them straight when you stick them down. 

[DLT]

I think your lining looks great Jack; don';t forget its 4mm scale, and the photo is blown up to about Gauge 1 size!

I'm using HMRS Pressfix transfers.  You can prod them around a bit, enough to get the lines straight anyway, before wetting the carrier.  At a push you can move them very slightly afterwards, but only if you're VERY careful.

Cheers, Dave.

[Mallard60022]

I reckon, with you level of skill and care, you could bow-pen line stuff like that. OK it would take a bit of work to get the mixes and technique sorted, but the result may surprise you. This said by the old git that would never even attempt such a task! There must be somewhere down your part of the globe that does workshops about such stuff if you fancied that?

ATB

Philk

[Jack P]

I think your lining looks great Jack; don';t forget its 4mm scale, and the photo is blown up to about Gauge 1 size!

I'm using HMRS Pressfix transfers.  You can prod them around a bit, enough to get the lines straight anyway, before wetting the carrier.  At a push you can move them very slightly afterwards, but only if you're VERY careful.

Cheers, Dave.

 

Thanks Dave, high praise indeed! It's like anything, seems scary at first, but is actually not so much of a black art once you have a go!

I certainly see what you mean about being blown up to gauge one.. helps both me and you see all the bits I messed up!

I found that if you wet and position, you can then dry and re-wet with microsol to move around certain parts, the rear curve on the tender body was done with one piece of curved lining and a bit of straight lining that was poked to conform to the curve. I also realised that I can fill in any areas I might miss, or that may be slightly out of alignment with black paint. 

 

That K10 looks amazing by the way. Thank whichever prevalent deity you believe exists that I don't have to line out steps or tender side frames!

 

I reckon, with you level of skill and care, you could bow-pen line stuff like that. OK it would take a bit of work to get the mixes and technique sorted, but the result may surprise you. This said by the old git that would never even attempt such a task! There must be somewhere down your part of the globe that does workshops about such stuff if you fancied that?

ATB

Philk

 

Thanks Phil! 

 

You'd be surprised, I would hate to offend anyone, but it seems to me that 'Finescale' modelling isn't so much the approach down here, and I feel like bow-pen lining would probably be included in that.

I know a few people at the local club that would probably be interested in discussing/teaching the ins and outs of a bow-pen, but I doubt I'd gather enough interest for a workshop. I need to make inquiries!

 

Or you could give it a go and let me know how you get on?

Edited June 13, 2018 by Jack P

[Jack P]

I promise this is it for the M7, sorry for the repetition!

 

 

Gave it a light weathering, finished the bufferbeam details and the small white 'K' on the side of the footplate. This, along with all of my other locos need to be coaled, a rather large undertaking when the time comes. 

 

I find it kind of funny that I thought this was finished and then it was pointed out to me that there were detail differences that distinguished it later on in life. My request to anyone that peruses my thread, is that if you see any errors, please point them out. My modelling window is the last 6 months(ish) of 1947, which means that I need to pay careful attention to overhaul/outshopping dates. So if you know better than I, let me know! The idea behind this is that it will improve the quality and accuracy of what i'm trying to accomplish here.

 

Many thanks to those that have contributed so far. Now to attend to the box that has just arrived from Hattons.. 

[Jack P]

I'm really impressed with the Dapol B4, and the running qualities are fantastic.

Some of the detail errors are really- well, frustrating more than anything. That being said, it's a very nice little model, certainly better than I could do from a kit.

 

 

 

 

 

 

Still more to do. I modified the base plate to remove the bracket the NEM pocket sits in. I was considering seeing if Dapol would provide the larger headed buffers as spares, as these ones simply slide out. not sure if 99 had the smokebox mounted lamp iron, if so i'll need to add it. Definitely needs some more weight added!

[bike2steam]

Just caught up with this thread, I must say there is some seriously good paint work goin' on.

[Jack P]

Thank you, I'm glad you like it! 

[Jack P]

On the advice of Chris KT, I changed the number on my N class

 

 

According to Railuk (3)1405 was allocated to Stewarts Lane in 1948 at the time of nationalization, which works for me.

I also received an order from Markits, I must say that dealing with Mark, the owner, was an absolute breeze from the other side of the world, postage costs were reasonable, and the order was here within a week.

 

 

This is what I was most excited about, the Vacuum tank for the tender top.

 

 

 

Here it is posed in place after being assembled, and again after it's been blackened prior to painting and fixing to the tender top

 

 

16 individual pieces in the end, (if you're including the 9 bits of wire needed). Very fiddly, but it certainly looks so much better than the whitemetal lump that came with the kit. Hopefully i've done this excellent turned brass item justice!

Edited June 19, 2018 by Jack P