RedGemAlchemist Posted March 20, 2018 Share Posted March 20, 2018 IMG_2270.JPGAveling & Porter.jpgI've been looking into building traction engine based loco from a Keil Kraft Fowler ploughing engine and a small 0-4-0 chassis. The photo shows the boiler balanced on top of an Airfix pug chassis. I think the wheels look a bit small; Does anybody know of a chassis with a similar or shorter wheel base and bigger wheels, or would I be better off fitting a different wheel set to the pug or cutting down an 0-6-0 chassis to get the really close-set wheels. The model will probably have to be unpowered on account of the very low boiler unless there is a suitable cheap chassis with a motor in the cab. Any ideas?? Only chassis like that I can think of is the Hornby Pug. But as experience can tell you I can't find one with a pricetag below about £50 even in damaged condition. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Premium Northmoor Posted March 20, 2018 RMweb Premium Share Posted March 20, 2018 Only chassis like that I can think of is the Hornby Pug. But as experience can tell you I can't find one with a pricetag below about £50 even in damaged condition. The wheels will be wrong (as they will from any donor) but you could use the Caley Pug chassis and remove the pistons and rod. Can easily pick these locos up for under a tenner. 1 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RedGemAlchemist Posted March 20, 2018 Share Posted March 20, 2018 The wheels will be wrong (as they will from any donor) but you could use the Caley Pug chassis and remove the pistons and rod. Can easily pick these locos up for under a tenner. True. But it's the only one I can think of with the motor in the cab like he asked about. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
robert17649 Posted March 22, 2018 Share Posted March 22, 2018 I have tried a spud 24.5mm and re wheeled it using an old set of bigger wheels. the model itself suffers lack of weight but as much lead and stuff as i can pack in it runs on straight and level track but can really only pull the skin off a rice pudding. I think a better idea would be an axle hung motor. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dickon Posted March 22, 2018 Share Posted March 22, 2018 True. But it's the only one I can think of with the motor in the cab like he asked about. I've just picked up a Caley pug from eBay for £8. I might try shortening the wheelbase by moving the rear axle as shown earlier in this thread. However, that may throw the loco out of balance so we will have to see. Until the thing arrives, I won't know whether it's possible to move the front axle. I can cover the spoked wheels with plasticard discs. One bonus of the Fowler engines is that they had coupling rods unlike the more numerous Aveling and Porters, so the holes in the wheels won't look out of place. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dickon Posted March 23, 2018 Share Posted March 23, 2018 I've just picked up a Caley pug from eBay for £8. I might try shortening the wheelbase by moving the rear axle as shown earlier in this thread. However, that may throw the loco out of balance so we will have to see. Until the thing arrives, I won't know whether it's possible to move the front axle. I can cover the spoked wheels with plasticard discs. One bonus of the Fowler engines is that they had coupling rods unlike the more numerous Aveling and Porters, so the holes in the wheels won't look out of place. The Caley arrived today. I've sussed how to remove the plastic body and also removed the piston rods and separated the chassis from the metal footplate. I think the project is feasible although the motor is quite a bit wider than I had hoped. I also want to investigate London Tram's idea of moving the rear axle to shorten the wheel base. The Fowler loco Lion being an extreme example. Don't know how the photo rotated on leaving my computer; Can anybody correct it? Please. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
MikeTrice Posted March 23, 2018 Share Posted March 23, 2018 Here you go: 5 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dickon Posted March 25, 2018 Share Posted March 25, 2018 Fowler.jpg The Caley arrived today. I've sussed how to remove the plastic body and also removed the piston rods and separated the chassis from the metal footplate. I think the project is feasible although the motor is quite a bit wider than I had hoped. I also want to investigate London Tram's idea of moving the rear axle to shorten the wheel base. The Fowler loco Lion being an extreme example. Don't know how the photo rotated on my computer; Can anybody correct it? Please. It's clear from the dimensions of both the chassis and the traction engine kit that I am not going to be able to produce an accurate model of a Fowler loco which had a vertical geared drive to the right hand rear wheel. However I can have an Aveling and Porter style drive midway between the wheels. This also means that I won't need to shorten the wheelbase, which is a bonus. I've decided to keep the metal footplate from the pug to add weight, which also makes the thing more akin to an Aveling. Whatever its ancestry, it's turning out to be quite a beast and very much reminiscent of the type. 9 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RedGemAlchemist Posted March 25, 2018 Share Posted March 25, 2018 It's clear from the dimensions of both the chassis and the traction engine kit that I am not going to be able to produce an accurate model of a Fowler loco which had a vertical geared drive to the right hand rear wheel. However I can have an Aveling and Porter style drive midway between the wheels. This also means that I won't need to shorten the wheelbase, which is a bonus. I've decided to keep the metal footplate from the pug to add weight, which also makes the thing more akin to an Aveling. Whatever its ancestry, it's turning out to be quite a beast and very much reminiscent of the type. Looks good, buddy! Freelancing to a general type is nothing to be shied away from. COME TO THE DARK SIDE OF MODELLING. WE HAVE COOKIES. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
robert17649 Posted March 25, 2018 Share Posted March 25, 2018 It's clear from the dimensions of both the chassis and the traction engine kit that I am not going to be able to produce an accurate model of a Fowler loco which had a vertical geared drive to the right hand rear wheel. However I can have an Aveling and Porter style drive midway between the wheels. This also means that I won't need to shorten the wheelbase, which is a bonus. I've decided to keep the metal footplate from the pug to add weight, which also makes the thing more akin to an Aveling. Whatever its ancestry, it's turning out to be quite a beast and very much reminiscent of the type. thats really cool and looks the part, wheres the motor? Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dickon Posted March 25, 2018 Share Posted March 25, 2018 thats really cool and looks the part, wheres the motor? It's in the firebox. You can just see the front end of it behind the casing for the driving gears where I have cut away a bit too much of the boiler side to give clearance. Luckily I have kept the off cuts so I should be able to fill in as much as I can. 1 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
robert17649 Posted March 25, 2018 Share Posted March 25, 2018 It's in the firebox. You can just see the front end of it behind the casing for the driving gears where I have cut away a bit too much of the boiler side to give clearance. Luckily I have kept the off cuts so I should be able to fill in as much as I can. thats nice thanks Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
rockershovel Posted March 25, 2018 Share Posted March 25, 2018 (edited) It certainly looks the part. Waiting to see the big, overhanging traction engine style cab.. I’ve looked up the surviving examples on YouTube. Very characteristic sound... Edited March 25, 2018 by rockershovel 1 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dickon Posted March 30, 2018 Share Posted March 30, 2018 It certainly looks the part. Waiting to see the big, overhanging traction engine style cab..I’ve looked up the surviving examples on YouTube. Very characteristic sound... Much as I like the looks of the beast with an open footplate, I have tried mock-ups of various styles of cab to make it look more locomotive and less traction engine. I now think that Rockershovel is right and that she should have a traction engine style canopy wide enough to enclose the flywheel as on Fowler's Lion above. The exposed cog wheels almost give a touch of steampunk to the character of a little loco that has come a long way from her humble Pug origins.... 8 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RedGemAlchemist Posted March 30, 2018 Share Posted March 30, 2018 canopy.JPG Much as I like the looks of the beast with an open footplate, I have tried mock-ups of various styles of cab to make it look more locomotive and less traction engine. I now think that Rockershovel is right and that she should have a traction engine style canopy wide enough to enclose the flywheel as on Fowler's Lion above. The exposed cog wheels almost give a touch of steampunk to the character of a little loco that has come a long way from her humble Pug origins.... Very nice, Dickon! Kind of make me want to build one myself now... Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
rockershovel Posted April 1, 2018 Share Posted April 1, 2018 ...that’s really rather good. If I might make a couple of suggestions - - Representative connecting rod and valvegear, which I always think look very “traction engine” - prominent well Tank below the footplate, painted to match the boiler and side panels - a difficult one given the overall proportions, but most of these locos seem to have prominent buffer beams (which make you wonder how they ever cleaned the smokebox out) Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dickon Posted April 1, 2018 Share Posted April 1, 2018 ...that’s really rather good. If I might make a couple of suggestions - - Representative connecting rod and valvegear, which I always think look very “traction engine” - prominent well Tank below the footplate, painted to match the boiler and side panels - a difficult one given the overall proportions, but most of these locos seem to have prominent buffer beams (which make you wonder how they ever cleaned the smokebox out) I agree about the lack of con rods and valve gear which strangely were not part of the kit. I'll try to coddle something up or I could otherwise fit a cover between the slide bars and the bulkhead above the firebox as the gap is unfortunately prominent. I could fit a well tank under the footplate at the rear of the loco, but have purposely cut away the front of the chassis and part of the footplate to give prominence to the front buffer beam. It looks better now it's painted; the Caley pug buffer beams being suitably chunky. 1 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
rockershovel Posted April 1, 2018 Share Posted April 1, 2018 I agree about the lack of con rods and valve gear which strangely were not part of the kit. I'll try to coddle something up or I could otherwise fit a cover between the slide bars and the bulkhead above the firebox as the gap is unfortunately prominent. I could fit a well tank under the footplate at the rear of the loco, but have purposely cut away the front of the chassis and part of the footplate to give prominence to the front buffer beam. It looks better now it's painted; the Caley pug buffer beams being suitably chunky. The overhanging smokebox and prominent buffer beam are definitely characteristic, that’s where the front axle would be on a road locomotive. Road locomotives would generally have well tanks under the bunker and that seems to have been carried over to the rail versions Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
James Harrison Posted April 1, 2018 Share Posted April 1, 2018 I agree about the lack of con rods and valve gear which strangely were not part of the kit. This was a Keilkraft kit, wasn't it? (Doesn't surprise me!- I've just built one of their tramcars, which lacked wheels and axles!) I would think a short length of plastic rod or strip would suffice for the con rods. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dickon Posted April 1, 2018 Share Posted April 1, 2018 This was a Keilkraft kit, wasn't it? (Doesn't surprise me!- I've just built one of their tramcars, which lacked wheels and axles!) I would think a short length of plastic rod or strip would suffice for the con rods. The slide rods from an Airfix pug are perfect for length and fit inside the slide bars quite convincingly with a little fettling at the 'fat' end. 1 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dickon Posted April 1, 2018 Share Posted April 1, 2018 The overhanging smokebox and prominent buffer beam are definitely characteristic, that’s where the front axle would be on a road locomotive. Road locomotives would generally have well tanks under the bunker and that seems to have been carried over to the rail versions A coat of paint shows the prominence of the front buffer beam. I need to cut away bits of the chassis and/or the supports behind the steps before I can fit a well tank under the rear end of the chassis. She also needs another coat of green paint and/or a fair degree of weathering 9 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
PatB Posted April 1, 2018 Share Posted April 1, 2018 ...that’s really rather good. If I might make a couple of suggestions - - Representative connecting rod and valvegear, which I always think look very “traction engine” - prominent well Tank below the footplate, painted to match the boiler and side panels - a difficult one given the overall proportions, but most of these locos seem to have prominent buffer beams (which make you wonder how they ever cleaned the smokebox out) I believe the traditional approach was to force the smallest apprentice down the chimney. Failure to get him out again wasn't too critical as long as you didn't mind an extra few minutes of clag following starting up again . Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
rockershovel Posted April 1, 2018 Share Posted April 1, 2018 (edited) A coat of paint shows the prominence of the front buffer beam. I need to cut away bits of the chassis and/or the supports behind the steps before I can fit a well tank under the rear end of the chassis. nearly there.JPG She also needs another coat of green paint and/or a fair degree of weathering Why not fit the well tank inside the steps? Mismatched components seem to be very characteristic of these locos, with items carried over from much narrower road locomotives, and the driver needs to get up there somehow! This one has steps outside a well tank.. Edited April 1, 2018 by rockershovel 2 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dickon Posted April 1, 2018 Share Posted April 1, 2018 Why not fit the well tank inside the steps? Mismatched components seem to be very characteristic of these locos, with items carried over from much narrower road locomotives, and the driver needs to get up there somehow! This one has steps outside a well tank.. C291A54E-0768-4560-A63C-34F6C23D0424.jpeg That is my plan for tomorrow, but I do need to cut away a buttress support behind the step to make space. 1 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RedGemAlchemist Posted April 2, 2018 Share Posted April 2, 2018 A coat of paint shows the prominence of the front buffer beam. I need to cut away bits of the chassis and/or the supports behind the steps before I can fit a well tank under the rear end of the chassis. nearly there.JPG She also needs another coat of green paint and/or a fair degree of weathering Beautiful! Really good job, mate! Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
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