garethashenden Posted March 12, 2017 Share Posted March 12, 2017 I can't help but wonder if you'd be better off printing one, sanding it very carefully, and then using at as a master for resin casting. If all the finished products are printed and sanded, you'll be spending an awful lot of time sanding and that would presumably drive up the price considerably. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bernard Lamb Posted March 12, 2017 Share Posted March 12, 2017 Now that 3D printers are becoming more common in public libraries would there be any possibility of marketing the models as soft ware rather than as a printed kit? Not just for this topic but as a general question. As for the S160. That will be the US Army. Back when I was at work the US military had started converting all old drawings to CAD. No idea as to how far they have got. There were at that time around 60 million so I was told. You might just strike lucky with an enquiry and find a full set of drawings exists. The US archives do seem to be pretty good and willing to help. Not quite as willing as they were before 9.11. Or Roco might be willing to let you have the source for the ones they must have. Bernard Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
How about a Dictator Loco Class? Posted March 12, 2017 Share Posted March 12, 2017 What isan apt-s please?!? And what cad program are you using? Can your design be altered to have more segments in the curves to make them smoother? I'd be aiming for 100segmants in the circle for an OO boiler roughly. So it prints nice. And what tolerance can you print to? Sorry for all the questions! (-: I'd love you see your Royal Mail EMU and apt's!! Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
cal.n Posted March 12, 2017 Share Posted March 12, 2017 I can't help but wonder if you'd be better off printing one, sanding it very carefully, and then using at as a master for resin casting. If all the finished products are printed and sanded, you'll be spending an awful lot of time sanding and that would presumably drive up the price considerably. I wonder if you could sell one straight from the printer and sell another which you have sanded yourself (at a higher cost). I would be happy to take time sanding a model myself but I understand others wouldn't and people will prefer the choice. Would love a 325. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
60800 Posted March 12, 2017 Author Share Posted March 12, 2017 Evening all, right, a lot of questions haha So, from the top (actually the previous page); The taff vale tank - as with most things, although I'll be doing the preserved locos, if you want any detail differences just ask Printing and using as a master for resin castings - a very real possibility, although the reason I did this in the first place was to avoid resin - I've had two resin locos go banana on me in the past, namely an 81 and a V2. Marketing as software? I could do, but I'd rather physically handle every example printed off and make sure they are fine and cleaned up by myself. I may sell them primed depending on opinion. APT-S? It's the proposed production version of the APT-P. The central power cars are done away with and both end units become the pantographed power cars connected by a 25kv overhead bus ala Eurostar, but all beautifully tilted. The software I use does produce proper circular structures, but displays them as those segemented circles you see on the smokebox door. I can print to 1/3rd of a mm, not ideal, but workable. The boilerbands you see are 0.3mm thick to suit. In terms of selling it 'straight off the printer', my personal pride will get in the way of that - if it isn't cleaned up and perfect, it won't be shipped. So, although I'll show photos on here of the prints as they come out, you as the purchasers will only ever handle the refined version. I don't want someone buying one and being put off 3D printing because they've been given a lumpy bumpy loco shell straight off a printer. Oh and as an aside, I reckon I might just be convinced to do Caley 828 - although you can do the livery yourselves haha! The V2 boiler is going to be printed within the next two hours Cheers, 60800 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
David Bigcheeseplant Posted March 12, 2017 Share Posted March 12, 2017 No point in 3D printing if you have got to clean the parts up later, the price of a good 3D print will be high as it is then there is the cost of you time cleaning them up. Our club had a talk by Alan Bulter from Modelu last Friday and even with his good 3D printer he thought large parts and boilers are best using other media rather than 3D printed. It looks like you are using Sketchup to do your designing with I am sure you can get ok results with but using soild modelling package as opposed to surface modelling which Sketchup would generate both better screen shots and allow easier changes. Personally I use Autodeck Fusion 360 which is a very powerful programme and is free. 0.3mm steps are pretty rough, one thing Alan Butler said was that the way parts are printed is very important and it is better to print several parts in the optimum position for that part and assemble them rather than as one lump. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
60800 Posted March 12, 2017 Author Share Posted March 12, 2017 Evening all, A few hiccups with regards to the printing. For some reason the software refuses to accept the banjo dome as part of the boiler, so that will be printed separately. A small section of smokebox has been printed and smoothed into an acceptable condition for painting and this is the current progress on the boiler; Cheers, 60800 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
How about a Dictator Loco Class? Posted March 13, 2017 Share Posted March 13, 2017 How long does it take for you to design a loco? If you print ABS then asetone fumes can help get a final smothed finish as you will see on YouTube. Thanks for your answers and good look with your project! Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
60800 Posted March 13, 2017 Author Share Posted March 13, 2017 I can only print PLA with this printer, but so far the parts that have come out have smoothed out nicely. The smokebox door printed in odd ridges that have very quickly been dispensed of, leaving a very good shape underneath. The smokebox and banjo dome still refuse to print properly but that's just down to how I've designed them, so they will be redesigned and printed tonight Cheers, 60800 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
60800 Posted March 13, 2017 Author Share Posted March 13, 2017 Oh, In terms of design time, for the body it's about a combined 12 hours of design and printing from what I can gauge so far. That will speed up as I get used to the processes. Here's the boiler barrel (1.5hr print time) Cheers, 60800 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Quarryscapes Posted March 13, 2017 Share Posted March 13, 2017 I can only print PLA with this printer, but so far the parts that have come out have smoothed out nicely. The smokebox door printed in odd ridges that have very quickly been dispensed of, leaving a very good shape underneath. The smokebox and banjo dome still refuse to print properly but that's just down to how I've designed them, so they will be redesigned and printed tonight Cheers, 60800 That's because you haven't joined the dome to the boiler. Select he surface of the dome (or the boiler, either will work) Right click and choose intersect faces with model. Then hide the boiler and delete all the bits of dome inside the boiler. No point in 3D printing if you have got to clean the parts up later, the price of a good 3D print will be high as it is then there is the cost of you time cleaning them up. Our club had a talk by Alan Bulter from Modelu last Friday and even with his good 3D printer he thought large parts and boilers are best using other media rather than 3D printed. It looks like you are using Sketchup to do your designing with I am sure you can get ok results with but using soild modelling package as opposed to surface modelling which Sketchup would generate both better screen shots and allow easier changes. Personally I use Autodeck Fusion 360 which is a very powerful programme and is free. 0.3mm steps are pretty rough, one thing Alan Butler said was that the way parts are printed is very important and it is better to print several parts in the optimum position for that part and assemble them rather than as one lump. Sketchup is plenty good enough for rendering and you solid modelling is wasted on 3D printing, since you'll specifically need a surface file for the printer. You only need solid if you want things CNC machined as the solid parameters will be used to determine the toolpath. All these are Sketchup drawn... Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Premium Kylestrome Posted March 13, 2017 RMweb Premium Share Posted March 13, 2017 IMG_0095.JPG Judging by the appearance of your boiler print, it would definitely benefit from the circles having more segments (as a previous poster also pointed out). The straight edges are very prominent and just will just add to the amount you will have to sand off, not to mention the risk of sanding it 'out of round'. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
60800 Posted March 13, 2017 Author Share Posted March 13, 2017 Hi Quarryscapes, I selected to intersect faces but neglected to delete the remaining material inside, so I'll look into that. Lovely work btw. I'm not sure what you mean about the solid modelling aspect, but I'm doing all structural wall thicknesses to 2mm, but things like tender tops and cabside edges will be 1mm Hi Kylestrome, With regards to altering the segments in the circle, I'm having trouble getting that feature to work for some reason. More progress tonight hopefully, 60800 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Gold chris p bacon Posted March 13, 2017 RMweb Gold Share Posted March 13, 2017 For locomotives like the V2 where are you getting your information from ? I've only partially helped with some info on 3D printed locomotives, and just bringing one to completion took about 6 months of snagging due to the many detail differences within the class. Very happy with the ones I have but not an easy or quick route to production and a lot of work for the one doing the CAD. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Quarryscapes Posted March 13, 2017 Share Posted March 13, 2017 Hi Quarryscapes, I selected to intersect faces but neglected to delete the remaining material inside, so I'll look into that. Lovely work btw. I'm not sure what you mean about the solid modelling aspect, but I'm doing all structural wall thicknesses to 2mm, but things like tender tops and cabside edges will be 1mm Hi Kylestrome, With regards to altering the segments in the circle, I'm having trouble getting that feature to work for some reason. More progress tonight hopefully, 60800 Solid modelling refers to a 'type' of 3D modelling software, it isn't really relevant here. To set circle segments, click the circle tool and before typing a radius (or clicking for one), type however many segments you want followed by S - for example 100S then enter gives you 100 Segments. It will stay this way for all future circles until you specify a new amount. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
timbowilts Posted March 13, 2017 Share Posted March 13, 2017 Regarding the original question, let's hope UK train owners don't latch on to what has happened in the USA. Over there the big boys, UP & CSX, require manufacturers, big and small, to pay a licence fee to make models of their trains Tim T Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
60800 Posted March 13, 2017 Author Share Posted March 13, 2017 For locomotives like the V2 where are you getting your information from ? I've only partially helped with some info on 3D printed locomotives, and just bringing one to completion took about 6 months of snagging due to the many detail differences within the class. Very happy with the ones I have but not an easy or quick route to production and a lot of work for the one doing the CAD. A while back when I was doing my line drawings, I collated information mainly on the A4's, but also on the V2. I did that by measuring major segments and then filling everything else in between using points of reference to line things up, and I'm modelling these in the same way. It's more than accurate enough and doesn't take too long to do fortunately. The aim of this isn't to produce items to a standard of MTK, nu-cast, Bachman, Hornby etc, but to produce a base model to work from where otherwise there is only scratchbuilding. The aim for the V2 is to print; Smokebox door Smokebox Boiler barrel Firebox Cab Running plate Cylinders Smokebox cradle Frame plates / chassis block Cartazzi frame Pony truck Snifter valve Banjo dome Chimney Superheader covers Lubricator pots Two styles of washout plug Boiler backhead Firebox door Ejector pipe Buffer housings Bufferbeam They will all be plain items so there will be comparatively little design work in each bit Cheers, 60800 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
David Bigcheeseplant Posted March 13, 2017 Share Posted March 13, 2017 "The aim of this isn't to produce items to a standard of MTK" I should hope not!!!! Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
60800 Posted March 13, 2017 Author Share Posted March 13, 2017 Well exactly haha, If that was my aim then I'd be a bit dissolutioned. There's a lot of things that I'm not even going to try to do, I'm still debating on the chinney for this V2 as there are lost wax brass castings around that are 10x better than anything I could ever print. I understand I have entry level equipment and software, but I'm going to push it as far as I can to make it worthwhile building stuff that I'd never even attempt to scratchbuild. Anyway, I'll be printing a refined boiler with banjo dome, smokebox door with straps and I'll have another shot at the smokebox. I can but do my best Cheers, 60800 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
298 Posted March 13, 2017 Share Posted March 13, 2017 "The aim of this isn't to produce items to a standard of MTK" I should hope not!!!! Just as long as you let customers rifle through several boxes in order to select the best bits. I'm still not convinced by these home 3d printers, having one must be as cumbersome as a darkroom was to photography- might be nice for a few custom projects but for speed and quality its easier to pay someone else. That doesn't mean any efforts are wasted, my first loco was a right mess of unnecessary lines but I learnt the hard way and the second probably took half the time and is bodge-free. The trick for you I feel is to find a niche that suits your printer, such as motor or servo mounts, or low res scenic details such as auxiliary equipment on buildings or line side accessories that would still need painting. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
cal.n Posted March 13, 2017 Share Posted March 13, 2017 I'm still not convinced by these home 3d printers Yes, there are not and probably never will be the same quality as kits made from other media (resin, etches, molded plastic), but these bodies and parts aren't designed to rival RTR stuff and 'conventional' kits. The point of using all these is that they will be 100 times easier than scratchbuilding or heavy modification and I am surprised not more people are doing it and I wish you the best of luck. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
NickL2008 Posted March 14, 2017 Share Posted March 14, 2017 A long list, id be interested in a 325 if you produce one, any developments on it yet? NL Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
How about a Dictator Loco Class? Posted March 14, 2017 Share Posted March 14, 2017 That's because you haven't joined the dome to the boiler. Select he surface of the dome (or the boiler, either will work) Right click and choose intersect faces with model. Then hide the boiler and delete all the bits of dome inside the boiler. Sketchup is plenty good enough for rendering and you solid modelling is wasted on 3D printing, since you'll specifically need a surface file for the printer. You only need solid if you want things CNC machined as the solid parameters will be used to determine the toolpath. All these are Sketchup drawn... I'm most impressed with how you have joined the chimney to the smokebox! How on earth did you draw it? Did you use pluggins? And how long did it take to draw the chimney and smoke box? This information would also help 60800 when he draws banjos etc I'm sure! Thank you. Rob Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Premium Barry O Posted March 14, 2017 RMweb Premium Share Posted March 14, 2017 Have you looked for alternatives to designing and printing some of your list? You seem to be duplicating the work of others. As an example there are some nice resin and cast V2 components already as well as items for a K4. Rather than duplicate things for for items not readily available for your first designs. You have a black 5 listed...which variation are you going to do? Chris p bacon hit the nail on the head re variants in loco classes. So make sure you get good information before hand. Good luck with your venture Baz Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
60800 Posted March 14, 2017 Author Share Posted March 14, 2017 Morning all, Just got the joke about MTK. Having never purchased one of their kits I hadn't realised the reputation haha *cough*. Anyway, Hi 298, It is a steep learning curve for me, having not touched any 3D programs for about four years, and it can be a bit sketchy with the prinintg, but I'm slowly getting there. There's been a lot of comments about quality. These aren't meant to be production run kits, they're a couple of one offs, printed and then hand crafted - that is how each one will be done. Hi Cal.n, You're spot on with that, couldn't explain it better myself. For those interested in the 325, I'm getting the V2 drawn up first. With the 325, I'm tempted to print just bogies, cab and unit ends, roller door sections, motor mount and bogie mounts. The rest can, I believe, just be hacked off of a spare mk3 coach. I can print window blanks if they are needed. Cheers, 60800 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
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