Buffer stops in termini: another cliché?

[ejstubbs]

Continuing the re-planning of my layout from a roundy-roundy in to a fiddle-yard-to-terminus - and being tight on space as always - I find myself pondering how much room to leave beyond the buffer stops.  Having them right at the edge of the baseboard almost feels like a cliché.  It's probably easier to get away with that if you have two platforms and the station building over the ends of the tracks (feels yet another cliché - or perhaps a meme.)  However, mine isn't going to be like that.  I'm inclined to leave at least a bit of space beyond the buffers, if only to embellish it with a few bits of lineside debris and the odd patch of 4mm-to-the-foot weeds.

 

Anyone else have a view on this?

[Joseph_Pestell]

Until that other thread, I had never encountered the word meme. RMWeb is always very instructive.

 

I think that much of what we do in railway modelling is a meme rather than a cliche. Especially those buses on the bridge.

 

But back to subject, there are not that many termini in big UK towns and cities that had the buildings down the side rather than end on to the tracks although there are some notable examples such as Kings Cross. Some had both, especially where it involved a hotel: Lime St, St Pancras. Either way, you need a bit of a passenger circulating area which takes the buffers away from the end of the board.

 

I can't find any terminals with a station building above the tracks unless you count Shoreditch (a converted through station). So that is a railway modelling meme.

 

In more rural locations, plenty of termini had the building to one side. So not much reason not to put the buffers close to the baseboard end but good to have enough space for some railings and a bit of roadway.

[nick_bastable]

Until that other thread, I had never encountered the word meme. RMWeb is always very instructive.

 

I think that much of what we do in railway modelling is a meme rather than a cliche. Especially those buses on the bridge.

 

But back to subject, there are not that many termini in big UK towns and cities that had the buildings down the side rather than end on to the tracks although there are some notable examples such as Kings Cross. Some had both, especially where it involved a hotel: Lime St, St Pancras. Either way, you need a bit of a passenger circulating area which takes the buffers away from the end of the board.

 

I can't find any terminals with a station building above the tracks unless you count Shoreditch (a converted through station). So that is a railway modelling meme.

 

In more rural locations, plenty of termini had the building to one side. So not much reason not to put the buffers close to the baseboard end but good to have enough space for some railings and a bit of roadway.

unless you exclude Crystal palace High station 

 

Nick

[petethemole]

Weymouth had buildings either side of the main platforms with access behind the stop blocks and a flower bed, with the boundary fence beyond. Seen here c1981: https://www.flickr.com/photos/44841559@N03/6878871922

 

There were originally three roads between the platform roads. From right to left the roads shown were originally, prior to 1958, main line arrivals, "engine loop" (release road), two "middle sidings" and main line departures.

[Joseph_Pestell]

unless you exclude Crystal palace High station 

 

Nick

Ah, I hadn't thought of that one, despite driving past the site frequently in my youth. I learned to drive at Crystal Palace.

[luckymucklebackit]

How about platforms 9 and 10 on the old Liverpool Street Station, did the tracks not actually disappear under the hotel?  Cannot find a link to a photograph but the track plan is interesting

 

https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/c/c6/The_Engineer_1894_(8_June)_Liverpool_Street_Station_extension_(plan).jpg

 

Jim

[Mike Storey]

You say you are tight on space, so, given there is a protoype for almost everything, it has got to be a toss-up between how long a platform your trains will need (and the approach trackwork, to be workable) compared to what you consider to be more important visually. Personally, I find a platform that looks too short for the trains serving it, far more jarring than the distance behind the stops (which you can otherwise disguise by inventive use of the backscene there).

 

But, Rule 1 must apply here, shurely?

[melmerby]

How about platforms 9 and 10 on the old Liverpool Street Station, did the tracks not actually disappear under the hotel?  Cannot find a link to a photograph but the track plan is interesting

 

https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/c/c6/The_Engineer_1894_(8_June)_Liverpool_Street_Station_extension_(plan).jpg

 

Jim

Just an observation:

Which tracks came from from the Met?

 

Here's a link to a map:

http://maps.nls.uk/view/101201565

 

Keith

[Chris116]

Platforms 9 & 10 at Liverpool Street went under the hotel for loading and unloading of goods. The link to the Metropolitan Railway was through platforms 1 & 2 or possibly 3 & 4.

 

EDIT:- It was 1 & 2 that connected to the Metropolitan Railway.

[PenrithBeacon]

Continuing the re-planning of my layout from a roundy-roundy in to a fiddle-yard-to-terminus - and being tight on space as always - I find myself pondering how much room to leave beyond the buffer stops. Having them right at the edge of the baseboard almost feels like a cliché. It's probably easier to get away with that if you have two platforms and the station building over the ends of the tracks (feels yet another cliché - or perhaps a meme.) However, mine isn't going to be like that. I'm inclined to leave at least a bit of space beyond the buffers, if only to embellish it with a few bits of lineside debris and the odd patch of 4mm-to-the-foot weeds.

 

Anyone else have a view on this?

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Meme . It's a word which is very popular in the Guardian, and as it's invented by Richard Dawkins you can see why. Utter crap!

 

Regards

[ejstubbs]

How about platforms 9 and 10 on the old Liverpool Street Station, did the tracks not actually disappear under the hotel?  Cannot find a link to a photograph but the track plan is interesting

 

https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/c/c6/The_Engineer_1894_(8_June)_Liverpool_Street_Station_extension_(plan).jpg

 

Jim

 

Fascinating.  At the risk of dragging my own thread off-topic, I'd not seen mention of a hydraulic turntable before.  I had been under the fond impression that there were basically two types: manually operated, or powered from the loco's brake vacuum.  You learn something new every day.

 

You say you are tight on space, so, given there is a protoype for almost everything, it has got to be a toss-up between how long a platform your trains will need (and the approach trackwork, to be workable) compared to what you consider to be more important visually. Personally, I find a platform that looks too short for the trains serving it, far more jarring than the distance behind the stops (which you can otherwise disguise by inventive use of the backscene there).

 

But, Rule 1 must apply here, shurely?

 

Indeed.  My platform is fine length-wise, I've made sure of that.  The approach trackwork is pretty compact and might benefit from a bit more room to breathe, though.  Maybe I'll have to wait until I can test lay some track to make the final call.  Trouble is, we have to dispose of some bulky furniture that's cluttering up the room before I can re-work my baseboards for the "classic L".  What's the equivalent of cabin fever for someone who's prevented from "playing" with his trains for too long?!

 

Just an observation:

Which tracks came from from the Met?

 

Platforms 1 and 2, was my understanding.

[corneliuslundie]

Not universally true, eg Cinderford, but quite often with rural stations the buildings were at the side because it was hoped to extend the line but it never happened. Is it an option for you to have some kind of pointer to that having been the case for your layout?

Jonathan

[Il Grifone]

omis

 

What's the equivalent of cabin fever for someone who's prevented from "playing" with his trains for too long?!

 

omis

 

Too horrible to describe adequately! 

 

Seriously, this is definitely a 'Rule 1' situation!

[Joseph_Pestell]

Fascinating.  At the risk of dragging my own thread off-topic, I'd not seen mention of a hydraulic turntable before.  I had been under the fond impression that there were basically two types: manually operated, or powered from the loco's brake vacuum.  You learn something new every day.

 

 

I had not either. But the Great Eastern was not a vac-braked railway and I don't know if a loco Westinghouse pump would be powerful enough although I can't see why not.

 

London had an extensive network of hydraulic equipment, mostly to drive lifts. Even the Festival Hall, built 1950, had hydraulic lifts. Perhaps this is an exceptional case due to there being a hydraulic network available.

[bigherb]

Terminus buffer stops right at the end of the railway boundary where not unknown. Minehead, Swanage, Westerham spring to mind even the 1:1 railways had to use all the available space.

[melmerby]

Platforms 1 and 2, was my understanding.

Thanks for that.

They look the most likely from the track curvature off the junction

 

Keith

 

EDIT

Re hydraulic power:

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/London_Hydraulic_Power_Company

[ejstubbs]

London had an extensive network of hydraulic equipment, mostly to drive lifts. Even the Festival Hall, built 1950, had hydraulic lifts. Perhaps this is an exceptional case due to there being a hydraulic network available.

 

I was aware of the hydraulic network in London (I believe that my Dad told me about the hydraulic lifts in the RFH) and indeed it came to mind as soon as I saw the turntable on the plan that luckymucklebackit linked to.  I suspect that you may be right about that being a reason for the GER choosing to operate their turntable that way.

 

The Wiki article about the London Hydraulic Power Company is quite interesting:

 

The system was used ... to power ... theatre machinery (including revolving stages at the London Palladium and the London Coliseum, safety curtains at the Theatre Royal, Drury Lane, the lifting mechanism for the cinema organ at the Leicester Square theatre and the complete Palm Court orchestra platform), and the backup mechanism of Tower Bridge.

 

...

 

The company, as a UK statutory authority, had the legal right to dig up the public highways to install and maintain its pipe network. This made it attractive to Mercury Communications (a subsidiary of Cable & Wireless) who bought the company and used the pipes as telecommunications ducts.

 

There were also hydraulic power companies in Kingson upon Hull, Liverpool, and Manchester.

 

EDIT: cross-posted with melmerby.

[Nearholmer]

For those offended by the word "meme", because it might be tainted with the left-liberalism, or have been invented since 1957, or by a rationalist, a possible alternative might be "mindworm", but that seems tainted with images of parasites, to me.

 

Buffers? Almost every scenario has a precedent. Some of the spectacular consequences of over-runs amply demonstrate that, often, the buffer arrangement was utterly inadequate to the task, not sufficient to absorb/dissipate energy, and way too close to "the rest of the world".

 

Kevin

[steviesparx]

District line platforms (8/9?) at Ealing Broadway run pretty much right up to the wall at the end of a gorgeous train 'shed'...

some original Underground 'roundels' still on the wall too last time I was there - solid red circle design as opposed to the red 'hoop'...

Edit: Picture below appears to show the original wooden buffer / oil damped example of buffer stops, as opposed to the new German (RAWIE?) stops

[Nearholmer]

And, notice how the inadequacies of the old are compensated for by the positioning of the new? There is probably speed control on the approach, and a stopping mark some distance back from even the modern arresters too.

 

K

[34theletterbetweenB&D]

 What's the equivalent of cabin fever for someone who's prevented from "playing" with his trains for too long?!

 

Cabbing fever? 

[peanuts]

For those offended by the word "meme", because it might be tainted with the left-liberalism, or have been invented since 1957, or by a rationalist, a possible alternative might be "mindworm", but that seems tainted with images of parasites, to me.

 

Buffers? Almost every scenario has a precedent. Some of the spectacular consequences of over-runs amply demonstrate that, often, the buffer arrangement was utterly inadequate to the task, not sufficient to absorb/dissipate energy, and way too close to "the rest of the world".

 

Kevin

having witnessed this at piccadilly station when a parcel shunt went wrong on platform 10 resulting in stop blocks being pushed under the then new shops having completley demolished the pedestrian walkway all from a 5mph shunt .the actual stop blocks were pretty much usless

[Joseph_Pestell]

Largs and Sheerness are two that come to mind as examples where buffers/stop blocks did not work all that well.

 

And, of course, that well-known postcard of Montparnasse back in the 19thC. It's not a new problem.

[Moggs Eye]

You might consider the number of terminus stations on the network that were once through stations. You can have buffer stops under bridges or station building then.

I use a level crossing at the terminal end of Cottleston. The crossing gates are always open for road traffic, but the disused signal box and redundant signals are pointers that the station used to be a through affair.

Have fun with the project.

Ben.

[DCB]

Buffers at the Baseboard edge sounds good.  Just bolt the 2ft long station building section on for exhibitions....