Smart Meter = smart move?

[Jonboy]

15 hours ago, Neil said:

A question if I may. Can your supplier charge you for gas that they can't meter? Our smart meter seems to have packed up a couple of months ago, there's no reading for gas on the in house device and the digital screen on the actual meter outside has been blank for a while. Despite whinging to the supplier nothing seems to have been done to address the issue and I don't want to end up paying for an estimation of what we might or might not have used.

 

Thank you.

 

I have had this on a commercial site for electricity and they took the next 8 weeks worth of use as an average to bill us for. They wanted to use the 8 weeks before, but I refused as that was winter and the blank period was spring.
As Hayfield says if it’s over 12 months AND you have taken reasonable actions to get them to correct it(such as Reporting it regularly by phone or email) then backbilling rules kick in and they cannot charge you for the use over 12 months ago.

 

The (hardwired) batteries in the gas smart meters typically have a 10 year lifespan (subject to the installation permission and how much power they use to transmit the readings). Some models reportedly create false readings as the battery gets very low so if their billing on the final readings it did report seems high do dispute it.

[Mike 84C]

Our IHU worked brilliantly for about six months, now its little radar icon is flashing and its waiting for information. Its a very long wait!  Octopus seem totally disinterested. Good job the ap says all is well and our credit is mounting!

[mezzoman253]

EON Next sent me an email stating " good news our prices are falling" and I'll pay approx £18.50 a month less from April.

 

3 days later I get another email telling me to INCREASE my DD based on their algorithm! That would have me paying an extra £16.50 a month.

 

Needless to say they got a stern email advising them to leave my DD as it was. Cheeky monkeys.

 

 

 

 

Edited March 19 by mezzoman253

[ess1uk]

We had smart meters fitted last Thursday as the original ones from when the house was built were 20 plus years old and didn’t give us Economy 7

 

 

[ess1uk]

This is really poor 

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/articles/cz9zqn77ezno

[melmerby]

On 19/03/2024 at 15:12, mezzoman253 said:

EON Next sent me an email stating " good news our prices are falling" and I'll pay approx £18.50 a month less from April.

 

3 days later I get another email telling me to INCREASE my DD based on their algorithm! That would have me paying an extra £16.50 a month.

 

Needless to say they got a stern email advising them to leave my DD as it was. Cheeky monkeys.

 

 

 

 

I'm still on variable monthly bills.

I did ask about going onto a DD sometime back and the figure they came up with was silly.

It looked like they took the January figure and multiplied it by 12. It was, way, way over the total for a normal 12 month period.

Why can't they just do variable DD like everyone else? They current (sic) system is stupid.

(E.ON Next)

[mezzoman253]

Yes a variable DD option would be a good idea although a fixed one lets you manage your finances better, as you know what's coming each month.

 

It seems the left hand doesn't know what the right hand is doing with E.ON Next. 🙄

 

 

Edited March 26 by mezzoman253

[Siberian Snooper]

I have to have my old meter replaced and the only option is a smart meter, I'm not happy with that, but I may get the last laugh, as the last time they wanted to change it, the chap took one look at it and said that he couldn't change it as the Western Power fittings were out dated and he'd not been trained on them. He said that he would report back to his supervisor and I should await a call from Western Power, quick as a flash, nothing happened. I'm now waiting to see what happens.

 

 

[hayfield]

14 hours ago, melmerby said:

I'm still on variable monthly bills.

I did ask about going onto a DD sometime back and the figure they came up with was silly.

It looked like they took the January figure and multiplied it by 12. It was, way, way over the total for a normal 12 month period.

Why can't they just do variable DD like everyone else? They current (sic) system is stupid.

(E.ON Next)

 

I think all energy companies overestimate the size of the payment just in case. 

 

I am with Octopus and I decide how much I pay via DDI, I also have the ability to set my own level of payment and if in credit withdraw my overpayments

 

With the exception of a two/three month period when I slightly increased my payments then reduced them I have paid the same amount per month (give or take £2) for the last 4 years. My overpayments (£500 this past year) in the summer build up sufficient funds to cover my winter use. Its down to £63 this morning but will be back up to £170+ in a few days time, and very soon my usage will be below my payments.

 

The system you are on may be either be or seem stupid, however if you fully get to understand the systems your company offers and it does not suite you, simply move providers. I use Octopus and I have a tariff that suits my needs. The main reason for my payments remaining the same was a timely investment into Solar Panels when discounts were available due to covid/no one spending money at that time (30 months ago)

 

As from quarter 2 & 3 energy rates are nearly back down to pre energy crisis prices. Electricity prices in Autumn were 18p per kwh, projected to be down to 20p in the autumn

[hayfield]

1 hour ago, Siberian Snooper said:

I have to have my old meter replaced and the only option is a smart meter, I'm not happy with that, but I may get the last laugh, as the last time they wanted to change it, the chap took one look at it and said that he couldn't change it as the Western Power fittings were out dated and he'd not been trained on them. He said that he would report back to his supervisor and I should await a call from Western Power, quick as a flash, nothing happened. I'm now waiting to see what happens.

 

 

 

 

It looks like variable pricing will be with us sooner than later (we have variable pricing now with economy 7). not having a smart meter will not make you immune to it but you will be on a composite rate, which will no doubt favor the supplier than the user !! 

[Reorte]

1 hour ago, Siberian Snooper said:

I have to have my old meter replaced and the only option is a smart meter, I'm not happy with that, but I may get the last laugh, as the last time they wanted to change it, the chap took one look at it and said that he couldn't change it as the Western Power fittings were out dated and he'd not been trained on them. He said that he would report back to his supervisor and I should await a call from Western Power, quick as a flash, nothing happened. I'm now waiting to see what happens.

Pretty sure they can't force you to take a smart meter even if yours needs replacing. They'll have to replace it with a non-"smart" one (or one with the supposedly "smart" functions disabled, although by all accounts they're good enough at doing that themselves) if you ask.

[GrumpyPenguin]

No way will I ever have a so called smart meter - that's that.

 

Now way will I ever allow an incompenent energy company dip their greasy little mitts into my wallet & remove what they want when they want because I had a bad experience with variable DD's some time ago.

[hayfield]

4 hours ago, GrumpyPenguin said:

No way will I ever have a so called smart meter - that's that.

 

Now way will I ever allow an incompenent energy company dip their greasy little mitts into my wallet & remove what they want when they want because I had a bad experience with variable DD's some time ago.

 

Its very difficult in this modern age to not have variable direct debits, from my mobile phone and land line/internet, to energy, rates car insurance etc all use variable DDI's

 

As for incompantant energy companies, most if not all are quite competent all of the time, with Octopus whilst having a variable DDI. I AM THE ONE in charge of my payments, unless that is if I abuse the system. Requests/suggestions of increased DDI payments are what they say if you keep your account in order. And I must say that the three different energy providers I have used in the past have acted honorably and have been very competent. As for what's in my wallet, the amount of cash I carry around is very little   

 

Agreed from time to time things do either break down or go wrong, but said companies are duty bound to put things right and pay compensation. My daughter changed electricity providers and was owed a few hundred £'s, unfortunately she had to go to the ombudsman twice before the electricity provider had not only had to pay in full but handsomely compensate them for the trouble they caused. But generally these cases are the exception. I use Octopus and have been treated much better from them than I have been by SSE and British gas in the past, however neither of these two companies caused me any problems. Thankfully I have never had any issues for many years with funds being taken in error from my account, but years ago years ago an error from my bank was quickly resolved, and my credit card company helped me out with a case of faulty goods with a furniture company 

[GrumpyPenguin]

4 hours ago, hayfield said:

 

Its very difficult in this modern age to not have variable direct debits, from my mobile phone and land line/internet, to energy, rates car insurance etc all use variable DDI's

 

As for incompantant energy companies, most if not all are quite competent all of the time, with Octopus whilst having a variable DDI. I AM THE ONE in charge of my payments, unless that is if I abuse the system. Requests/suggestions of increased DDI payments are what they say if you keep your account in order. And I must say that the three different energy providers I have used in the past have acted honorably and have been very competent. As for what's in my wallet, the amount of cash I carry around is very little   

 

Agreed from time to time things do either break down or go wrong, but said companies are duty bound to put things right and pay compensation. My daughter changed electricity providers and was owed a few hundred £'s, unfortunately she had to go to the ombudsman twice before the electricity provider had not only had to pay in full but handsomely compensate them for the trouble they caused. But generally these cases are the exception. I use Octopus and have been treated much better from them than I have been by SSE and British gas in the past, however neither of these two companies caused me any problems. Thankfully I have never had any issues for many years with funds being taken in error from my account, but years ago years ago an error from my bank was quickly resolved, and my credit card company helped me out with a case of faulty goods with a furniture company 

My experience is very different.

 

Neither my wife or I have any variable DD's for the reasons stated. To elaborate, some time ago an excessive variable DD was taken which meant other fixed DD's were not paid resulting in a downrated credit rating so the damage was done.

 

As for utilities it's quite simple - I supply meter reading every month, they produce an accurate bill which is cheched & I do a BACS payment, little more to do than checking forthcoming DD's & for me the important thing I am in complete control, not the utilities.

[hayfield]

11 hours ago, GrumpyPenguin said:

My experience is very different.

 

Neither my wife or I have any variable DD's for the reasons stated. To elaborate, some time ago an excessive variable DD was taken which meant other fixed DD's were not paid resulting in a downrated credit rating so the damage was done.

 

As for utilities it's quite simple - I supply meter reading every month, they produce an accurate bill which is cheched & I do a BACS payment, little more to do than checking forthcoming DD's & for me the important thing I am in complete control, not the utilities.

 

I am very sorry to hear about that, its my understanding that your bank and the company receiving the ddi must restore you bank account funds instantly, alter any adverse credit information and pay all out of pocket information. If this is not done you have recourse to take action via the ombudsman service. In my experience banks and credit card companies have acted promptly and seen to go out of the way to protect their customers. 

 

I still believe that with my energy providers regarding DDI's I am in control of my DDI payments and with Octopus since I have been with them (30 months) they have never altered my DDI. I decide what goes out !! 

[GrumpyPenguin]

18 minutes ago, hayfield said:

 

I am very sorry to hear about that, its my understanding that your bank and the company receiving the ddi must restore you bank account funds instantly, alter any adverse credit information and pay all out of pocket information. If this is not done you have recourse to take action via the ombudsman service. In my experience banks and credit card companies have acted promptly and seen to go out of the way to protect their customers. 

 

I still believe that with my energy providers regarding DDI's I am in control of my DDI payments and with Octopus since I have been with them (30 months) they have never altered my DDI. I decide what goes out !! 

What made my situation worse was that I worked away at the time and knew nothing about it until I returned home and checked the mail (this was before internet banking). Even though the funds were re-instated promply it proved almost imposible to get my credit rating re-instated.

I appreciate that it may be different now, but once bitten, twice shy. I will remain in control.

[hayfield]

13 minutes ago, GrumpyPenguin said:

What made my situation worse was that I worked away at the time and knew nothing about it until I returned home and checked the mail (this was before internet banking). Even though the funds were re-instated promply it proved almost imposible to get my credit rating re-instated.

I appreciate that it may be different now, but once bitten, twice shy. I will remain in control.

 

Unless banking rules have changed DDI's are controlled by the receiving organization * (my bank has told me this every time I phoned to change the details) Standing orders are controlled by the customer 

 

* I have the ultimate control as with my interned banking I can cancel any DDI or standing order. Plus I always reminded the bank staff who owned the account !!

[APOLLO]

DD Guarantee

 

https://www.directdebit.co.uk/direct-debit-guarantee/

 

And as per Lloyds

 

https://www.lloydsbank.com/current-accounts/help-and-guidance/what-is-a-direct-debit.html#:~:text=Secure - Direct Debit payments are,payments refunded back to you.

 

Pros

Quick and easy - Direct Debits automatically take payments from your account. This can save you time and means you don’t have to manually pay your bills each month.

Save money - Many utility companies offer a Direct Debit discount. This gives customers a small percentage off their payments when using a Direct Debit.

Secure - Direct Debit payments are protected by The Direct Debit Guarantee. This is offered by all banks and means you’ll have any incorrect payments refunded back to you.

 

Cons

Charges - If you don't have enough money to cover your Direct Debits, you could be charged by your bank or go into your overdraft. Before this happens, you have until 2:30 pm to pay the money into your account to avoid charges - this is called the ‘retry process’.

Lack of control - Because companies will withdraw your Direct Debit payments automatically on the agreed date, whether the money is in your account or not, you could run the risk of becoming overdrawn.

Easy to forget - The term ‘out of sight, out of mind’ can often apply to Direct Debits, so you’re more likely to accept whatever is withdrawn from your account without questioning whether you’ve been over-charged.

 

Brit15

[Guest]

I'm reminded of French woman Solenne San Jose who received a phone bill for just under twelve quadrillion euros.

When she called the phone company to complain they offered her a payment plan...

[Vistisen]

On 27/03/2024 at 10:42, hayfield said:

 

 

It looks like variable pricing will be with us sooner than later (we have variable pricing now with economy 7). not having a smart meter will not make you immune to it but you will be on a composite rate, which will no doubt favor the supplier than the user !! 

In Denmark, you have to use a smart meter which charges at an hourly rate if you have solar panels that are selling power to the grid. The electricity prices are agreed daily for the following day at 1 pm. We have a car charger that automatically knows how much power we need to charge and what time we are going to use the car. This then chooses the cheapest hours to charge.

We have just installed a geothermal heat pump for heating our large rambling farmhouse. This also looks at the temperature and weather forecast and takes into account the energy prices when planning when to heat the house.

Our electricity prices vary hugely during the day. For example, today the price at 3am was 1.80 kr. (21 pence) and at 6 pm it will be 3.07 kr. (43 pence)

We also have solar cells and a 10Kw battery.  What we need is the central ‘brain’ to join all the systems.

The central unit over time should

·       Learn our pattern of usage.

·       have information about electricity prices.

·       Use the projected weather forecasts.

·       Store information about how much power we need to have in the car battery when leaving for work

I would need to upgrade my car charger to a V2H unit (this means being able to use the car battery to power the house) to et the full benefit.

From this information, it should work out how much power we can get from the sun. It would then work out how much power we need to buy from the net, and when it is cheapest to do so, (possibly buying more than is needed and storing it in the car and house batteries to be used at times of peak prices.

In the summer when we are producing more power than we use, it should also work out when it is best to sell it (ie. when the price is highest).

In short it should do automatically, what I have to do manually today by configuring all the different control applications on my phone.

I was just getting excited because the company that installed the solar power sent me an email telling me that this system called HEARTBEAT was just about to be released. But When I contacted them, they told me that my Huawei inverters are not yet compatible ☹

[PaulCheffus]

15 minutes ago, Vistisen said:

.

Our electricity prices vary hugely during the day. For example, today the price at 3am was 1.80 kr. (21 pence) and at 6 pm it will be 3.07 kr. (43 pence)

 

Hi

 

It’s this that worries me as being diabetic I have to eat at certain times which are likely to be the peak times so I will be penalised for my illness.

 

Cheers

 

Paul

[Vistisen]

17 minutes ago, PaulCheffus said:

Hi

 

It’s this that worries me as being diabetic I have to eat at certain times which are likely to be the peak times so I will be penalised for my illness.

 

Cheers

 

Paul

I can quite understand that. The situation is even worse in Copenhagen where the tariffs in the late afternoon, early evening are even higher. There are some who can organise their way around these prices, but it is hard for those who can't. But the traditional flat rate price is set a such a level that it would probably still be cheaper overall to pay the variable rate. Different  countries, different economic structures. No one system is perfect. But making us conscious of what we are paying, has encouraged us to invest in powersaving technology and our total energy costs have fallen dramatically. Which is good for the modelling budget, and the environment.

Edited March 28 by Vistisen

[Michael Hodgson]

On 26/03/2024 at 18:23, ess1uk said:

This is really poor 

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/articles/cz9zqn77ezno

Is it even accurate ?

 

It says the display unit showing how much you're using has to be working or you may get estimated bills.  I thought that all they needed to get their data was the actual meter on the wall and its comms, and the display unit was merely a convenient accessory that the user could look at or ignore as he sees fit.

 

[Red Devil]

Smart meters have to be the most idiotically named items ever .....

 

Yeah, I quite like the idea of seeing what I'm actually using and avoiding having to do readings but so far I've had 4 attempts at getting them to work, eventually managed to get an electric smart meter fitted but it couldn't talk to the gas meter, that then went wrong within 6 months and it didn't work at all, 3 different attempts at trying to replace not working electric meter all failed, don't even add in that on each of those occasions you've no chance of the gas working because it can't.....

I was delighted to receive a letter from my supplier yesterday telling me that I'm now due an upgrade in my smart meter......Shall I take at least another half day off work so they can't make them work?

Patently not fit for purpose in some cases, specifically my own, forgive me if my thinking is that smart meters are perhaps really as thick as ****

[GrumpyPenguin]

3 hours ago, hayfield said:

 

Unless banking rules have changed DDI's are controlled by the receiving organization * (my bank has told me this every time I phoned to change the details) Standing orders are controlled by the customer 

 

* I have the ultimate control as with my interned banking I can cancel any DDI or standing order. Plus I always reminded the bank staff who owned the account !!

None of that applies to me - as I said I worked away at the time and even if there was mobile banking at the time I would not use it then & will not use it now. I use internet banking at home on one desktop only. This device does not have wi-fi. I repeat, I was not aware of any issue until the damage had been done.

 

I would say that more than 50% of the people I know (including myself) have been subject to some form of scamming such as card cloning/ID theft, so no thank you, I'kll stay in the dark ages.