Marshall5 Posted July 31, 2018 Share Posted July 31, 2018 The R/C boys use piano wire. The last lot I bought (for handrails) was from a model shop specializing in remote control cars and aircraft. Ray. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Simond Posted July 31, 2018 Share Posted July 31, 2018 Ray I’m with you on piano wire for handrails, they’re a b****r to do, but once done they do stay done! Best Simon Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Focalplane Posted July 31, 2018 Author Share Posted July 31, 2018 The RC car/plane model shop at St. Esteve near Perpignan had no stock at all, everything seems to come “in the box” these days. On the bright side, my plans have become fluid and I may get to go to Telford after all, even if for just one day. Paul 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Premium St Enodoc Posted July 31, 2018 RMweb Premium Share Posted July 31, 2018 Wasn't that mentioned a while back here? Dave Yes Dave, I did see that but read (or misread) it as referring to a printed manual. It was only when I was googling for ideas last night that I found out that it was available on line. Thanks. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Premium St Enodoc Posted July 31, 2018 RMweb Premium Share Posted July 31, 2018 Hi, Well, I have now had a look at the guild wiring diagram, and I think it’s fine, there’s no point (har har) in me reinventing the wheel. I thought it had the k & v frogs separated electrically but I see it is the same as Paul’s formation. Have you now solved the issue by using a different tortoise? The Marcway points have flexible switches, which take a degree more grunt to shift than loose heeled ones - I think you’ll have to beef up the operating wire to do that. I don’t think that affects the mechanical life of the tortoise, as it stalls when it stalls, but watch out for the movement of the output lever - if it is not enough, you will make a poor contact at the internal switches, and they may then have a limited life expectancy. You therefore need to judge the wire stiffness to allow a good range of movement of the tortoise, but to be stiff enough to press the blades home firmly. Best Simon I think the bad Tortoise might be one of my Houston purchases - very early on in the history of the product. I am not going to be able to do as much as I thought I would be able to these next days - a small crisis has emerged (can one have a small crisis, I wonder?) But I need to get on with this project because otherwise I will have to start up the learning curve all over again. Not only the stiffness of the Marcway points but also the friction between moving rails and fixed sleepers. Circuitron do point this out and recommend stiffer piano wire. I haven't seen any piano wire in my travels around southern France (remember, model shops don't even sell much paint!) and for that matter I've not seen a piano shop either. More news when I have something to tell! Cheers, Paul Mike Edge advised me to change the wire that comes with Tortoises for 0.8 mm or 1/32 inch wire. It's a good tip. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Focalplane Posted August 1, 2018 Author Share Posted August 1, 2018 I have tried 0.9mm nickel silver wire as a stop gap and it is better but not stiff enough. I also tried two standard wires soldered together! I think it’s better to get the right material fir the job. Thx, Paul Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Simond Posted August 1, 2018 Share Posted August 1, 2018 Paul I’m sure a phone call to one of the regular suppliers - they’d cut a metre into 6” lengths and post in a normal envelope If you’re stuck, let me know, I don’t have much wire in stock but might have a suitable length Best Simon Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Focalplane Posted August 1, 2018 Author Share Posted August 1, 2018 Hi Simon I am going to call FB Systems near Béziers, they sold me the Tortoises so maybe they can help. Thank you for your offer but these things are obviously worth hoarding! Is there a replacement for Maplins? I suppose that’s unlikely, a bit like Radio Shack 20 years ago. There’s something special about browsing in an electronics parts shop though I am not sure why. Paul Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Premium Ray H Posted August 1, 2018 RMweb Premium Share Posted August 1, 2018 Have you thought about either filing the underside of the Marcway tiebars so that you reduce the friction on the cork or removing the cork under the tiebar - allowing for the length of the movement - and then, possibly covering the opening you've made with a very thin piece of paper to disguise the hole although you'd need to leave some of it open for the operating wire. We tried the former on my colleagues railway with the three way point I mentioned earlier. It certainly helped. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Focalplane Posted August 1, 2018 Author Share Posted August 1, 2018 Ray I recognized this could be a problem at the outset and left off strips of cork below the four tiebars. The friction would have been even worse. I do like soldered track but this has always been a negative. The scissors crossover is not in the scenic area so it is not a problem how it looks as long as it works. But thanks anyway for the suggestion! Paul Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
daifly Posted August 1, 2018 Share Posted August 1, 2018 Have you thought about either filing the underside of the Marcway tiebars so that you reduce the friction on the cork or removing the cork under the tiebar - allowing for the length of the movement - and then, possibly covering the opening you've made with a very thin piece of paper to disguise the hole although you'd need to leave some of it open for the operating wire. We tried the former on my colleagues railway with the three way point I mentioned earlier. It certainly helped. Friction is probably not the major force to overcome. It's the flexibility of the switch rails (or not!) that the Tortoise has to work against. Dave Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Focalplane Posted August 1, 2018 Author Share Posted August 1, 2018 Friction is probably not the major force to overcome. It's the flexibility of the switch rails (or not!) that the Tortoise has to work against. Dave Yes, you are right, Dave, though there is also friction involved where the switch rail rubs against the underlying sleepers. Neither of these problems exist with a Peco point. Still no luck on thicker piano wire, and I will be away from home by the time a supply can be mailed to me. The rewiring is nearly complete but it is deinitely siesta time here, the temperature is 37°C and I keep dozing off! Paul Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
N15class Posted August 1, 2018 Share Posted August 1, 2018 Friction is probably not the major force to overcome. It's the flexibility of the switch rails (or not!) that the Tortoise has to work against. Dave When I build a point I always set the blades neutral. IE they are curved enough to sit halfway the stock rail and open. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Simond Posted August 1, 2018 Share Posted August 1, 2018 My points are built with loose heels, ie a fishplate “hinge” in the blades, which I make by soldering a shim of phos-bronze to blade and closure rail. It’s flexible, and ensures conduction to the blade, but on the downside, it’s not an accurate scale representation. Best Simon 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jintyman Posted August 1, 2018 Share Posted August 1, 2018 I have built a few copperclad turnouts for customers lately and after painting I find a little grease on the surface of where the blade rubs along helps a lot. I don't use loose heeled blades either. I also file the top edges of the copperclad, putting a slight chamfer along the edge so the blade rail has slightly less resistance against it and slides smoothly. Hope you get the electrical circuitry and a smooth blade action sorted Paul, it can be both frustrating and time consuming when a 'challenge' such as this rears its head. Jinty Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Focalplane Posted August 1, 2018 Author Share Posted August 1, 2018 Well, finally, we have working points, all four of them! With the exception that stiffer piano wire will be needed when I can find some (most probably a week from now). As it now looks as though I may be in the UK for longer than planned I am just pleased to have got this far and ahead of my self-imposed deadline. I have spent much of the last 24 hours re-wiring the whole assembly, including adding terminal connectors (called dominoes in the bricolage) to the sides of the Tortoises with double sided tape. Here are some photos to prove my point (could not resist that, Simon!): First, the wiring, not as tidy as I would like but if it works, leave it! Next, the track side: To demonstrate that the wiring is switched correctly I turned the lights down and tried to capture the lever settings (straight outer, straight inner, left crossover, right crossover) as well as show a coach with working lighting: The wiring in the foreground is temporary and will disappear when the design of the control panel is decided upon and built. Again, the theory is that if it works, don't touch it! I do, however, plan to keep the module as an easy in - out assembly and the five connecting wires will have plugs and sockets. They are, by the way, track feed, track return, Tortoise bus, Points 1&4 control, Points 2&3 control. Not quite total DCC simplicity, but there you are! What next? I need to wire up the span across the doorway and relay the track up to the scissor crossing, then I can run a circuit through the hidden track system. After that, some final adjustments to the inclines. And it's still 35ºC! Paul 6 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Premium St Enodoc Posted August 1, 2018 RMweb Premium Share Posted August 1, 2018 Well, finally, we have working points, all four of them! With the exception that stiffer piano wire will be needed when I can find some (most probably a week from now). As it now looks as though I may be in the UK for longer than planned I am just pleased to have got this far and ahead of my self-imposed deadline. I have spent much of the last 24 hours re-wiring the whole assembly, including adding terminal connectors (called dominoes in the bricolage) to the sides of the Tortoises with double sided tape. Here are some photos to prove my point (could not resist that, Simon!): First, the wiring, not as tidy as I would like but if it works, leave it! IMG_2113.JPG Next, the track side: IMG_2114.JPG To demonstrate that the wiring is switched correctly I turned the lights down and tried to capture the lever settings (straight outer, straight inner, left crossover, right crossover) as well as show a coach with working lighting: IMG_2115.JPG IMG_2116.JPG IMG_2117.JPG IMG_2118.JPG The wiring in the foreground is temporary and will disappear when the design of the control panel is decided upon and built. Again, the theory is that if it works, don't touch it! I do, however, plan to keep the module as an easy in - out assembly and the five connecting wires will have plugs and sockets. They are, by the way, track feed, track return, Tortoise bus, Points 1&4 control, Points 2&3 control. Not quite total DCC simplicity, but there you are! What next? I need to wire up the span across the doorway and relay the track up to the scissor crossing, then I can run a circuit through the hidden track system. After that, some final adjustments to the inclines. And it's still 35ºC! Paul Very nice Paul. Glad you got there in the end, in spite of being aided and abetted by some of us! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Focalplane Posted August 1, 2018 Author Share Posted August 1, 2018 Actually I couldn’t have done it without everyone’s help and advice. So a big thank you to all concerned. Paul Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Focalplane Posted August 2, 2018 Author Share Posted August 2, 2018 The lifting section has been wired up and connected, so circuits can now be done. The connection to right of the scissor crossing is a bit wonky but all the locos and trains I have tested pass through easily so I have left it for the time being. I have shot a video with the Lee Marsh Jubilee pulling 4 Dapol suburban coaches at about two thirds speed (80/126) using the inclines down to the double slip and will provide a link once it has been uploaded to vimeo.com. We are under the influence of the "Portuguese Heatwave" with today's temperature heading for 37ºC and it likely to stay that way as the pressure system is stalled at least until Sunday. I think I will stay in the railway room, it's the coolest room in the house! (In more ways than one!) Paul 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Focalplane Posted August 2, 2018 Author Share Posted August 2, 2018 And here is the movie: Lee Marsh Jubilee 45688 Polyphemus pulling four B Set coaches. It should really be pulling my Midlander rake but they're in limbo. The circuit includes the dip down to the double slip that feeds both fiddle yards, so is using the most severe inclines in the layout. Enjoy! Paul PS I don't much like the chuffing sound on the Lee Marsh installed sound file, it's too monotonous. I might have to do something about this when at Telford. 8 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Simond Posted August 2, 2018 Share Posted August 2, 2018 Paul, Please put a temporary block of wood and a whopping great screw on the dead end of each siding... Best Simon Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Focalplane Posted August 2, 2018 Author Share Posted August 2, 2018 Paul, Please put a temporary block of wood and a whopping great screw on the dead end of each siding... Best Simon Ah, yes, risk management! I spent my career expecting a 1 in 10 success in finding oil or gas so 9 times out of 10 failure would be the norm. Not that I want my Jub to be one of the 9. What I actually envisage is placing a large block of spongy material for the express to crash into. Wouldn’t that be better than a block of wood and a screw? My old test track had two screws either side with a thick rubber band between. Or am I missing something? Paul 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Focalplane Posted August 3, 2018 Author Share Posted August 3, 2018 How is that? Ignore my last post - I blame the heat for being testy Paul 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Simond Posted August 3, 2018 Share Posted August 3, 2018 Anything is better than no barrier! And it’s temporary And you’re never going to hit it. Then again, if seat belts were made from barbed wire, people might drive slower... 3 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Focalplane Posted August 3, 2018 Author Share Posted August 3, 2018 As it is still too hot to think straight (scientists' studies have demonstrated this to be true) I decided to do something fairly mundane today and punched out all the rivets on the Warren Shephard Mogul (loco only). There are not that many to do unlike some kits. The tender kit, on the other hand has no rivet guides though I feel sure it was heavily riveted. So I plan to use some American HO rivet decals after the tender is built and before spraying on the etch primer. Ironically, the decal strips look to be about the right size and having seen quite a few American prototypes I can imagine I am not far wrong in that assumption. No decision need be made right now. My Metalsmith riveter doesn't have guides quite like some others, so the decal strips may well end up being the better alternative for me anyway. I doubt if any of the riveted parts are visible but I took a group photo of all the etches to make this post a bit more visual: There may seem to be a lot of brass here but many of the etches have redundant parts - depending on which Mogul is being modelled. Paul 3 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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