Simond Posted June 19, 2018 Share Posted June 19, 2018 Paul, For reasons that are entirely unclear, the pony wheels I have are Gresley pattern 3’2” 10 spoke. That can’t be right! I’ll get back to you... Btw, I don’t use Slaters pickups - you can see my approach in the Duchess thread. Quick & easy to make, and can be removed without removing the wheels. Best Simon Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Marshall5 Posted June 19, 2018 Share Posted June 19, 2018 It looks like Warren's kit covers all the Mogul variants from the short frame/short cab 4301-20 to the 93xx Collett versions. There are so many variations in between that the class are a real minefield for modellers so I suggest acquiring a copy of David Andrews' excellent class history "The Churchward 2-6-0's" which helped me a lot. Even so there are odd oddballs like Croes Newydd's 5399 which, from 1957, had the appearance of an older loco from the 4321-5383 series! Looking forward to seeing the finished article whenever that is. Cheers, Ray. 1 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Focalplane Posted June 19, 2018 Author Share Posted June 19, 2018 Paul, For reasons that are entirely unclear, the pony wheels I have are Gresley pattern 3’2” 10 spoke. That can’t be right! I’ll get back to you... Btw, I don’t use Slaters pickups - you can see my approach in the Duchess thread. Quick & easy to make, and can be removed without removing the wheels. Best Simon Simon Your bogie wheels are the correct diameter. I was thinking of going to the 3' 3" diameter general pattern wheel. I need to look at your "Duchess" thread! I have not had any problems with Slaters' pickups after noting Jim McGowen's tips, but they are fiddly to install in smaller locos. My MOK 14XX only has two pickups each side and has no problems (maybe the huge stay alive has something to do with it). Paul Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Focalplane Posted June 22, 2018 Author Share Posted June 22, 2018 The past three days has seen me keeping well away from the railway room and now it looks like the separation will continue for a while. I have been decorating the two stairwells (much in need of it, too) and then managed to put my lower back out. Fortunately nearly all the paint has been applied, just some skirting boards, but I am severely incapacitated, so all though of carpentry, installing more lighting, etc. has come to an end. For now. Is this what being an "ancien" is all about? Well, there are other things I can do, such as research which Mogul to model and check out Warren Shephard's kit in more detail. And then there is the 74XX to complete, never mind several Sidelines coaches. Summer has arrived in southern France with a vengeance but the railway room (and garage workshop) are well insulated and, dare I say, cool compared with the upper floors of the house. So I need to think about where best to set up the portable workbench which I used to set up on the loggia of the apartment. I probably won't do anything for a while as I am on my own for the next week. So, I can catch up on some of my friends' threads as well! Paul 1 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Marshall5 Posted June 22, 2018 Share Posted June 22, 2018 Let me know if I can be of any help with your Mogul research as I have a particular interest in them as you might have gathered from my avatar. Hope your back gets better soon. Ray. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Focalplane Posted June 22, 2018 Author Share Posted June 22, 2018 Ray I have started a spreadsheet to document all the photos in various books that show a mogul on the Ruabon Barmouth line. So far I have only two pre WWII photos and both were on the line when moguls were not allowed to run on most of the Cambrian system. So they could get to Barmouth but not beyond, apparently, even though logic would suggest that the biggest obstacle would be the Barmouth Bridge. In post war years most of the locos seem to be in the 63xx series, not one so far in the 93xx series. Many books are filled with photos of the BR Standard Class 4s which replaced the aging moguls when the LMR took over. Very few photos really help in identifying the subtle changes within the class and at the moment there are no books available (new or second hand) on the usual web sites. As the Heljan model will be of one of the early series, I should be focussing on the later cab design but without windows. (All three are catered for in the kit) Paul (When I have completed the spreadsheet I will be happy to share it with anyone interested) 1 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Simond Posted June 22, 2018 Share Posted June 22, 2018 When I have completed the spreadsheet I will be happy to share it with anyone interested Yes please! (Pre WW2 interest) Ta Simon Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Focalplane Posted June 22, 2018 Author Share Posted June 22, 2018 (edited) When I have completed the spreadsheet I will be happy to share it with anyone interested Yes please! (Pre WW2 interest) Ta Simon Simon According to my entries so far, the GWR moguls were not officially allowed on the old Cambrian before WWII, except on the Ruabon Barmouth line which was mostly built by the GWR. The source of this is from page 82 of Cambrian Railways Album, volume 2. The only two pre-war photos are of 6399 and 6336. However, remember that my material is focussing on the Llangollen Line, not the Cambrian Coast main line and other sources could indicate differently. HTH, though as you plan to run Castles to Porth Dinllaen perhaps it doesn't matter! Paul Edit to say that the painkillers are dulling my memory and that I had previously noted the lack of moguls pre WWII. But at least I can walk around a bit! Edited June 22, 2018 by Focalplane Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Marshall5 Posted June 22, 2018 Share Posted June 22, 2018 Hi Paul, Possibly the reason for the lack of photos of 93xx are that, until the bufferbeam weights were removed (1956-9), they were in the red route classification and the valley line was a blue route. Remind me again, in what year is your layout set to portray? My own recollections of the line are from 1961 to closure and by then nearly all the moguls were 63xx and, of course, 5399 which was a regular from its rebuild in Feb '57 to withdrawal. There is a photo of the sole surviving Churchward mogul, 5322, at Barmouth when it was shedded at Tyseley but whether it returned to Brum via the valley or Dovey Jc. is anyone's guess. There is a copy of David Andrews' book currently on Amazon https://www.amazon.co.uk/Churchward-2-6-0s-Locomotives-detail-Andrews/dp/B079KSZJSV/ref=sr_1_3?s=books&ie=UTF8&qid=1529690950&sr=1-3&keywords=churchward+2-6-0 I learned a lot about the class from my copy. Cheers, Ray. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Focalplane Posted June 22, 2018 Author Share Posted June 22, 2018 Ray The year (plus et moins, d'accord) is 1959. Thanks for the heads up on David's book, I just bought it! I have plenty of examples of the middle of the class to use for the kit, a matter of which ones have the best photo record. As to 5322: Featured on Plate 16 of Middleton Press Ruabon to Barmouth book in 1957, an UP train at Llangollen. Ruabon was UP. Paul Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Marshall5 Posted June 22, 2018 Share Posted June 22, 2018 Paul, that could be the same occasion that 5322 was photographed at Barmouth. and, yes, it seems strange that going towards Ruabon was up but that's what it was. The allocations I have for 1959 are: Croes Newydd (84J) 6316, 6339, 7310, 7313 A lot of trains originated at Chester. Chester West (6E) had 5399, 6345, 6380 and certainly the former was regularly seen on the valley line both before and after its transfer to CNYD. David's book gives a lot of information on the various changes made to individual locos such as when outside steam pipes were fitted. Cheers, Ray. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Focalplane Posted June 23, 2018 Author Share Posted June 23, 2018 (edited) Here is my first edition of Moguls photographed (available in various books) along the Ruabon-Barmouth line. Some explanations. Some books identify photos by the page, some by the plate. The latter don't have page numbers. The list is sorted by running numbers, Ray's 1959 shed allocations are highlighted (red - Croes Newydd, blue - Chester) Those photos taken in 1959 have the year in dark green bold font. Moguls.pdf If I am going to be truly prototypical and stick with 1959, then some of the more frequent locos won't make the cut. In fact only 6316 was photographed in 1959! I can give myself some latitude here but is does look like the most common images are post 1959 (brought about by imminent closure no doubt). Now, where was 6357's shed? Captions in the well researched Steam in Mid Wales say that it was a Croes Newydd loco. If this is the case, then that loco should be selected as it had a long life up and down the line, from at least 1957-1961. And it was photographed on shed at Penmaenpool in 1961. I am hoping that there may be more photos available in books I have ordered, so this is my first edition. Paul Edit to add - the spreadsheet was exported to pdf but the original, either in Numbers (Apple) or exported to Excel format can be emailed. PM me! Edited June 23, 2018 by Focalplane 1 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
bgman Posted June 23, 2018 Share Posted June 23, 2018 That one heck of research Paul, very satisfying though. Once you decide upon a region and start to identify the locos running in a specific period it certainly focuses the mind and off you go on another tack and also attempting to get decent photographs of specific engines. I have certainly done so when researching the kit of a Dean Goods, one of Warrens too ( which is still on the workbench about 80% finished ). I trust that you are getting better. Grahame Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Focalplane Posted June 23, 2018 Author Share Posted June 23, 2018 That one heck of research Paul, very satisfying though. Once you decide upon a region and start to identify the locos running in a specific period it certainly focuses the mind and off you go on another tack and also attempting to get decent photographs of specific engines. I have certainly done so when researching the kit of a Dean Goods, one of Warrens too ( which is still on the workbench about 80% finished ). I trust that you are getting better. Grahame Thanks Grahame Yes, not so bad this morning but I am trying not to do too much. I enjoy this sort of research and this enforced period of "relaxation" has made it possible. The urge to get on with constructing Penmaenpool is hard to ignore, but ignore it I must for the time being. Rail on line have only three useful images of North Wales moguls - most seem to have been in your county, particularly the Barny, though most of that line ran through Somerset! We lived for a while near Bathealton. Paul 2 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Marshall5 Posted June 23, 2018 Share Posted June 23, 2018 Thanks for posting your list Paul - most interesting. I've found a few Mogul photos in books other than those you've referred to and I can post them this evening if they are any help. It's a lovely day here so I think I'll steam my 4" scale Hunslet 'Alice' this afternoon and have a run. Re- 6357 it was listed as allocated to Croes Newydd (89B) by Nov 1961 along with 5399,6306, 6339,7310 & 7339. Cheers, Ray. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Focalplane Posted June 23, 2018 Author Share Posted June 23, 2018 Ray The more the merrier! As 6357 was photographed in 1959 on the line at Arthog it may have already arrived at Croes Newydd, so it remains a good option. I should add that another requirement will be the availability of plates from Severn Mills Nameplates! Paul Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Marshall5 Posted June 23, 2018 Share Posted June 23, 2018 As promised some references to Moguls photographed at work on the Ruabon - Barmouth line. Sorry it's not in a nice, neat pdf like yours. Churchward 2-6-0's:- 7313 on diverted down CCE @ Berwyn 11/8/60 (D.Andrews) 6357 on up Barmouth - Chester train @ Drws y Nant 5/60 (6357 o/s steampipes fitted 8/58 wdn 3/7/62) 5399 @ Chester shed 30/8/59 Rails to N.Wales 6367 on 13.15 Chester to Barmouth train @ Chester 6/57 6339 @ Croes Newydd shed 8/8/58 From the footplate - the 5399 @ Barmouth on up train 13/6/57 (5399 unlined black, large old crest,o/s steampipes, Dean buffers - changed to Collett type by 1961) Cambrian Coast Express Foxline #9 Llangollen line 6357@ Llangollen on down train c.1957, same on 7/11/60 and c.1960 Ruabon - Barmouth 7313 (84J) @ Bonwm 10/6/56 6357 @ CNYD 7/10/60 7313 on up train @ Dolgelley c.1961 6357 on down train @ Bala Jc. 7/10/60 Foxline #53 Return to 7314 @ Barmouth on train ex Ruabon 5/61 Pwhelli 6324 on down train ex Ruabon @ Barmouth Jc. 7/8/56 7310 " " " 22/4/61 5399 " @ Dolgelley 15/8/61 6357 on up train @ Dolgelley 15/8/61 6357 on 8.45 Chester - Barmouth train 3/61 7325 on up train @ Barmouth Jc. 22/8/59 (Collett cab) Western Branchlines & Byways 5330 on up train @ Dolgelley 27/9/62 I'm sure I'll come across more - in fact ISTR that a late friend of mine Tom Shuttleworth did a series of articles on the Ruabon - Barmouth line for G.W. Journal. They covered the immediate pre WW2 period but might be useful so I'll have a look. Certainly 6357 appears most regularly - Narrow Planet might do the plates. If I ever do a Mogul I'll do 5399 after its Feb '57 rebuild just so someone can tell me I've got it wrong. I think I explained how 5399's appearance changed to that of an earlier series loco in the Heljan Mogul thread. Hope this helps. Ray. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Focalplane Posted June 27, 2018 Author Share Posted June 27, 2018 A few days off from painting but I have accomplishing something in the railway room (I may start calling it La Salle de CdF). I have completed the installation of the LED strip lights. To celebrate I remembered I have an app on my iPad that stitches together a panorama, complete with massive distortions when scaled to a flat surface. Here is the view standing in the entrance doorway. Please excuse the mess, that is my next job, getting my friend Henry the vacuum cleaner to suck up all that sawdust. Then a complete sorting out of stuff is required so that I can complete the hidden track beds on the right hand side of the room. Track laying can also be completed so that testing can start before the upper scenic layer is added. Having just previewed the image I have to admit in my defense that my woodworking is a helluva lot better than it looks! Paul 3 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
gismorail Posted June 27, 2018 Share Posted June 27, 2018 A few days off from painting but I have accomplishing something in the railway room (I may start calling it La Salle de CdF). I have completed the installation of the LED strip lights. To celebrate I remembered I have an app on my iPad that stitches together a panorama, complete with massive distortions when scaled to a flat surface. Here is the view standing in the entrance doorway. panorama copy.jpg Please excuse the mess, that is my next job, getting my friend Henry the vacuum cleaner to suck up all that sawdust. Then a complete sorting out of stuff is required so that I can complete the hidden track beds on the right hand side of the room. Track laying can also be completed so that testing can start before the upper scenic layer is added. Having just previewed the image I have to admit in my defense that my woodworking is a helluva lot better than it looks! Paul One hell of a photograph Paul could go a bit dizzy if one looks to hard ...I've often wondered what the Tardis in Dr Who would look like if he was into model railways ...well now we know ..and being a time machine it will defo transport you back to the age of steam Excellent work though I still haven't totally worked the exact track plan but I'm sure that further episodes will make it clearer Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Premium TrevorP1 Posted June 27, 2018 RMweb Premium Share Posted June 27, 2018 A few days off from painting but I have accomplishing something in the railway room (I may start calling it La Salle de CdF). I have completed the installation of the LED strip lights. To celebrate I remembered I have an app on my iPad that stitches together a panorama, complete with massive distortions when scaled to a flat surface. Here is the view standing in the entrance doorway. panorama copy.jpg Please excuse the mess, that is my next job, getting my friend Henry the vacuum cleaner to suck up all that sawdust. Then a complete sorting out of stuff is required so that I can complete the hidden track beds on the right hand side of the room. Track laying can also be completed so that testing can start before the upper scenic layer is added. Having just previewed the image I have to admit in my defense that my woodworking is a helluva lot better than it looks! Paul Wow! Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Andrew P Posted June 27, 2018 Share Posted June 27, 2018 Yes,,,,,,,,,,,,different, but now we can see the amount of work that has gone in so far, Paul, well done mate. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Focalplane Posted June 27, 2018 Author Share Posted June 27, 2018 I have just spent the rest of the afternoon in the relative cool of La Salle de CdF* cleaning up the mess and doing some wiring. Now, to celebrate Germany being knocked out of the World Cup I have decided to support their economy by purchasing a Proxxon lathe. It's been a desire of mine for some time to buy a lathe now I am retired and have the space. With some help and advice I have plumped for the PD 250/E. Last weekend I missed the opportunity to buy one that had been on display and unpackaged. Today I had a second opportunity and went for it. When the piggy bank is replenished I plan to buy the mill attachment (or maybe the separate milling machine, we'll see how it goes). Time for supper before the Brasil game starts! Paul * Railway Room 3 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Premium St Enodoc Posted June 27, 2018 RMweb Premium Share Posted June 27, 2018 I have just spent the rest of the afternoon in the relative cool of La Salle de CdF* cleaning up the mess and doing some wiring. Now, to celebrate Germany being knocked out of the World Cup I have decided to support their economy by purchasing a Proxxon lathe. It's been a desire of mine for some time to buy a lathe now I am retired and have the space. With some help and advice I have plumped for the PD 250/E. Last weekend I missed the opportunity to buy one that had been on display and unpackaged. Today I had a second opportunity and went for it. When the piggy bank is replenished I plan to buy the mill attachment (or maybe the separate milling machine, we'll see how it goes). Time for supper before the Brasil game starts! Paul * Railway Room How about la salle de trains? Seems to roll off la langue more easily. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Focalplane Posted June 28, 2018 Author Share Posted June 28, 2018 How about la salle de trains? Seems to roll off la langue more easily. Yes, it probably would be better, but if you say “Say Day Eff” for CdF? Maybe we’ll just stick with Railway Room with House Attached! Paul 1 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Marshall5 Posted June 28, 2018 Share Posted June 28, 2018 Hi Paul, good to see the progress that you have made on your layout. Congratulations on joining the model engineering fraternity with your lathe purchase - you'll soon wonder how you managed without one! I use a Myford ML7 for the bigger stuff and an old Unimat for the 7mm scale. I would suggest, however, that you consider a separate small milling machine rather than an attachment. This would also give you a small, accurate vertical drill and you wouldn't have the frustration of having just set up your lathe attachment for a milling job, find that you need to turn something first. Having said that I managed for decades without a mill as most jobs could be done on the lathe with or without a vertical slide. Mind you Rule 2 (can't have too many tools) always applies. Cheers, Ray. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
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