Penmaenpool (Llyn Penmaen)

[Focalplane]

I think I have resolved the piano wire problem!  The solution was simple, drive to Porthmadog and visit Ian Jones at the piano store next to Tescos!  Turns out Ian is a life long Borth resident and we know several of the same people in the village from the late 1950s onward.

 

Ian was quite happy to sell me the wire without piano attached!

 

Paul

[Focalplane]

I am in limbo as far as modelling is concerned, but at least I can accumulate various bits and pieces for when I get back to the railway room.  The latest acquisitions have been delivered (or collected in the case of the order from Slaters, see below*).

 

The David Andrews Dukedog kit has arrived and although I haven't checked all the parts I feel sure from experience that they will all be there!  Here is a photo of the basic contents supplied in the box:

 

 

I have not opened up the etched brass sheets, one packet for loco, one for tender.  Two bags contain all the brass and white metal castings, a third the various bits and bobs (bearings, bolts, etc.).  Then there is the pre-rolled boiler and a small bundle of wire as well as the usual well documented instructions.

 

The kit does not come with various extras, some of which are now in stock:

 

 

I will use Slater's hornblocks for the two drivers, leave a spare set which will be used on the centre tender axle.  For pickups I have bought the Slater's plunger set but may not use them in preference for making my own along the lines of SimonD's.  In which case I could put the Slater's pickups on the tender.  This really won't be necessary if the excellent electrical continuity on my David Andrews LMS Compound proves to be similar.

 

The Severn Mill's brass plates are also in the photo.  9017, last remaining Dukedog, preserved today in Sussex but last seen by me inside Oswestry Works around 1958.  This locomotive was often used on specials during the last days of steam on the Cambrian but could easily have been used to pilot heavier excursion loads up the "hill" east of Dolgelley.

 

What remains to be sourced is the motor gearbox.  I will be using an abc gears combination, recommended as Mini 26:1 box with a 19mm Maxon motor.

 

A similar ratio box will be used for the Warren Shephard 43xx Mogul.  As both have 5' 8" drivers, this should mean that double heading ought to be reasonably balanced (the motors will be different though due to size restrictions).  Further fine tuning of the two ought to be possible using the DCC speed tables but I have never tried this (previous American HO consists used similar RTR models, i.e. 2 EMD E9s back to back).

 

Paul

 

* The Slaters delivery by DPD was promised to be waiting for me at a nearby pharmacy.  When I got there I was told that their scanner was down and I would have to come back on Tuesday, after the holiday.  I explained that I would not be able to come back then and anyway, DPD had said that the package would be returned to them on Monday.  Monday happened to be the Bank Holiday, so clearly this wasn't going to happen.  After waiting for some considerable time they miraculously got the scanner to work and I eventually received the parcel.  I had had to crawl in a holiday traffic jam to get the parcel so the whole process took me two hours.

 

Ironically I usually have good words to say about DPD but this experience has been a bit off putting.  The Post Office (Royal Mail and La Poste) remains my preference for most shipments.

 

 

[Simond]

Paul,

 

You’ll find details of my Tre Pol & Pen build on the workbench thread of Western Thunder.

 

I used a Premier Components’ Canon & conventional worm gearbox, and the haulage powers are excellent, I think there may also be some video. I’ve used the Premier helical 2-stage gearbox on the Duchess, but it wasn’t available when I did the Dukedog.

 

You might find my decoder placement helpful!

 

Best

Simon

[Focalplane]

Thanks, Simon, for the tips, etc.

 

I imagine the build will be similar to David Andrews' LMS Compound, which I found quite easy.  I have yet to fit DCC (as it no longer fits my layout needs) but did a neat trick on my Connoisseur 4F that I may use on the two tender engines for Penmaenpool.  The 4F has the decoder and speaker in the tender.  I have two connections between loco and tender.  The two wires from the pickups end in a female socket, the two wires to the motor end in a male socket.  When joined they give DC power for the loco on DC track.  But when connected to the wires from the tender (also appropriate male and female from the decoder) the loco becomes DCC.

 

One of the reasons for placing the decoder in the tender will be to have more space for weight over the drivers in a 4-4-0 wheel arrangement.  I have not noticed any serious problem with sounds coming from the tender when in my acoustically dead ex-home cinema!

 

I also use 8 pin sockets because it makes removing a decoder that much simpler for re-blowing or replacement.

 

I have been in touch with Premier for the Mogul but when it came to ordering I think the owner must have been on holiday.  I have several abc gear combinations and can recommend them.  With MSC as well we are really spoiled for choice for quality motor gearboxes without having to go to Switzerland!

 

Paul

 

PS I don't think I will be attending Telford after all, but now have my sights on Reading or Bristol.

[Simond]

Paul

 

Links to WT, it’s all a bit spread out, but this gets you the decoder installation.

 

http://westernthunder.co.uk/index.php?threads/whats-on-your-workbench.3804/page-68#post-159941

 

This earlier one and a couple later cover the tightness between the flycranks and frames, and the springing, which I reckon is a better bet than equalisation in this case.

 

http://westernthunder.co.uk/index.php?threads/whats-on-your-workbench.3804/page-65#post-158155

 

Hope it helps, any q’s just shoot.

 

Best

Simon

[daifly]

Hi Simon

Links to WT only work for members.

Dave

[Simond]

Curses, foiled again, Moriarty! Thanks Dave.

 

Paul,

 

If you don’t want to join (and I can’t see any reason you wouldn’t, they’re all very civilised over there) let me know & I’ll dig out the pix.

 

Best

Simon

[Focalplane]

Simon

 

It’s not that I don’t want to join, I know I probably should, but I spend enough time on the internet as it is when I feel I should be doing more constructive things.

 

In this case I think I had better join and then be disciplined, a sort of read only membership perhaps?

 

Thanks, Paul

 

Edit to add I have signed up, waiting on administration for approval.

Edited August 27, 2018 by Focalplane

[St Enodoc]

Thanks, Simon, for the tips, etc.

 

I imagine the build will be similar to David Andrews' LMS Compound, which I found quite easy.  I have yet to fit DCC (as it no longer fits my layout needs) but did a neat trick on my Connoisseur 4F that I may use on the two tender engines for Penmaenpool.  The 4F has the decoder and speaker in the tender.  I have two connections between loco and tender.  The two wires from the pickups end in a female socket, the two wires to the motor end in a male socket.  When joined they give DC power for the loco on DC track.  But when connected to the wires from the tender (also appropriate male and female from the decoder) the loco becomes DCC.

 

One of the reasons for placing the decoder in the tender will be to have more space for weight over the drivers in a 4-4-0 wheel arrangement.  I have not noticed any serious problem with sounds coming from the tender when in my acoustically dead ex-home cinema!

 

I also use 8 pin sockets because it makes removing a decoder that much simpler for re-blowing or replacement.

 

I have been in touch with Premier for the Mogul but when it came to ordering I think the owner must have been on holiday.  I have several abc gear combinations and can recommend them.  With MSC as well we are really spoiled for choice for quality motor gearboxes without having to go to Switzerland!

 

Paul

 

PS I don't think I will be attending Telford after all, but now have my sights on Reading or Bristol.

That's a very neat trick with the plugs and sockets Paul.

[Focalplane]

Simon

 

I must say that placing the decoder on the front bogie is most innovative! As the Churchward 3500 gallon tender is a bit smaller than the Fowler tender in the 4F, this would be a good alternative plan.

 

The springing of the driving axles is also interesting. But 5 coaches is one more than I expect to run on Penmaenpool except when double heading the odd excursion, so I may be OK. My inclines are a bit steeper than John’s though. I still have to fine tune two track uprights when I return to the railway room. One will require removing the Tortoise motor on a point to get to the screws that need to be adjusted. It shouldn’t be too difficult. . . .

 

Paul

 

(Western Thunder read only member!)

[Simond]

Paul,

 

The decoder isn’t actually on the bogie, it’s sandwiched between the cross-beam that supports the bogie pivot and the underside of the footplate, the “adapterplatine” is screwed to another cross-piece roughly where the front coupling spring would be if it had one.

 

I like your approach of a “DCC tender” and the easy conversion back to analog. Effectively what I tried to do with the Duchess, R/C using the tender, DCC by connecting the pickups to the decoder. Shame the R/C gear wasn’t up to the job...

 

Springing, well, you can never have too much tractive effort!

 

Best

Simon

[Focalplane]

Simon

 

But the decoder is still up there, lightweight and not taking up space where lead sheeting could go.

 

The Dukedog, according to a drawing I just found on line, had only 18,955 lbs tractive effort but that would be enough for 5 coaches and two vans!

 

Details/photos of the 4F's wiring is to be found here:

 

http://www.rmweb.co.uk/community/index.php?/blog/1565/entry-17883-finishing-the-lmsbr-4f/

 

The bit about the wiring is at the end of the entry.

 

Paul

[N15class]

I built my Dukedog compensated. I used the bogie pivot as the point of the triangle and side beams on the drivers. I put their pivot a couple of mm to the rear of centre to give more weight to the rear axle. This worked well as weight added anywhere over the triangle put it into the drivers.

[Focalplane]

The motor gearboxes have been ordered and I should receive them in a week or so - Telford has used up all the shelf stock!  Next I will be selecting the best sound files for the Mogul and Dukedog.

 

Youchoos' sound files are on line so it is easy to judge whether or not the files are suitable.  In these two cases (and most of Youchoos' offerings) the sounds are from preserved 5322 and 9017 respectively, which is an added bonus, particularly for the Dukedog.

 

Now I have the NCE USB module I will be able to use my iPad Mini to control Penmaenpool with the WiThrottle app.  I have used this before with Digitrax equipment but today's refinements should make the system more user friendly.

 

Paul

[Focalplane]

Something which has been worrying me since designing the Penmaenpool track layout has been coupling and uncoupling wagons that are some distance from the edge of the layout.  This primarily relates to  the engine shed road where the coal stage is located and where coal will be delivered and ash removed.  There are photos of a mineral wagon temporarily located inside the shed.  I have already decided upon MagClic connections within rakes of coaches and the B set often seen in videos already has them.  All the MagClic needs is a sharp tug between the two coaches and they are disconnected and I would be doing this in a fiddle yard anyway.

 

The Dingham system seems to be well liked but the wagons must be handed.  I can probably live with this by having a spacer wagon with standard 3 link at one end and a Dingham coupler at the other that would have to go between locos and Dingham equipped wagons.  Hardly prototypical but then God doesn't usually couple and uncouple wagons either.  I don't want to replace the couplings on my locos so the spacer wagon would be a critical addition to pick up freights.  A further thought is that I would need two spacer wagons, one for the engine shed, one for the goods yard, the Dingham coupler being different on each of the spacer wagons because of the handing.

 

I have used Kadees in both OO and HO gauge and like them but they are not prototypical to a 1950s steam layout.  But again they could be used on a few wagons only and would not need an electromagnet.

 

Comments welcome!

 

Paul

[bgman]

Hi Paul,

 

Its a real dilemma for me too but thankfully I am not at that crossroads yet regarding the choice of coupling. 

 

I know its not very helpful but I trust that you eventually settle upon a system to suit you layout and stock.

 

Best wishes

 

Grahame

[St Enodoc]

Something which has been worrying me since designing the Penmaenpool track layout has been coupling and uncoupling wagons that are some distance from the edge of the layout.  This primarily relates to  the engine shed road where the coal stage is located and where coal will be delivered and ash removed.  There are photos of a mineral wagon temporarily located inside the shed.  I have already decided upon MagClic connections within rakes of coaches and the B set often seen in videos already has them.  All the MagClic needs is a sharp tug between the two coaches and they are disconnected and I would be doing this in a fiddle yard anyway.

 

The Dingham system seems to be well liked but the wagons must be handed.  I can probably live with this by having a spacer wagon with standard 3 link at one end and a Dingham coupler at the other that would have to go between locos and Dingham equipped wagons.  Hardly prototypical but then God doesn't usually couple and uncouple wagons either.  I don't want to replace the couplings on my locos so the spacer wagon would be a critical addition to pick up freights.  A further thought is that I would need two spacer wagons, one for the engine shed, one for the goods yard, the Dingham coupler being different on each of the spacer wagons because of the handing.

 

I have used Kadees in both OO and HO gauge and like them but they are not prototypical to a 1950s steam layout.  But again they could be used on a few wagons only and would not need an electromagnet.

 

Comments welcome!

 

Paul

Paul, I think your idea of Dinghams and a converter wagon is a good one.

[Focalplane]

This morning I was able to stop at Telford for a few hours - not something that was planned - and did a bit of shopping and met quite a few of the traders.

 

The surprise of the day was that I bought and have in my possession a Heljan Large Prairie.  It's one of the Tower Models' specials, the un-numbered early BR model.  It arrived from China late last week.  Here's an out of the box snap:

 

 

It will become 4175 once it is back in France.

 

I also visited the Heljan stand and asked if I could take a photo of the latest 43XX prototype.  They were happy to oblige:

 

 

In other news, the tender of the Lee Marsh Jubilee is going to have the sound chip re-blown and a large speaker added to the tender.  This will much improve the sound quality.  Cliff Williams will do the work, he told me that the speaker in the Jubilee's smokebox is not in a good location, the large speaker in the tender will use the tender as a sound enclosure.

 

Some very nice layouts on show but I had to leave after a quick survey of them.  It was very quiet at 10 am, so this is a good time to be in the hall.

 

Paul

 

 

 

 

[Focalplane]

A few comments on the Heljan Larghe Prairie.

 

It's a heavy beast and should be capable of pulling 6 B set coaches up Hatton Bank should I ever build such a layout.

 

The plastic shell is nice but does have a plastic sheen so some weathering will be done.

 

The plastic coal will have to go.

 

One lamp bracket on the front is missing, possibly due to handling at the show, it can be rectified very easily.

 

The screw couplers are very nice.

 

There are lots of add ons including the two bogies which get in the way of the fixings to the wooden plinth seen in the previous post.

 

At Tower's special price it seems to me to be a real bargain.  I will have to add DCC and will probably use the Youchoos sound files.

 

So, back in the box it goes for the journey to the Railway Room later this month.

 

Paul

[Simond]

Paul,

 

I looked at the Heljan large prairies and went “mmmm”, and steadfastly resisted temptation.

 

I had said to my pals that I have far too many kits to build and resisted the temptation of buying any more too.

 

Until this morning when I saw a very nearly complete Warren Shepherd large prairie kit complete with castings for £75 on the B&B...

 

Well, it won’t eat anything, and it can sit on the kit shelf for as long as necessary!

 

Enjoy your new toy!

 

Shame we missed each other - next time!

Best

Simon

Edited September 2, 2018 by Simond

[Focalplane]

Simon

 

The main reason for buying the large Prairie was that the 41XX series were usually responsible for taking me to and from Birmingham when a lad.  4175 features as a minor character in Philip Hawkins' Summer Saturday at Snow Hill painting so as I am also building the main player (David Andrews' Castle 5070 heading the Cornishman south) it seemed a good fit.  I had no idea they were so large until today, the 45XX small prairie is certainly a minnow by comparison.

 

I do wish the RTR companies would fill their bunkers half full with coal so that we can add some of the real thing on top.  As it is I will have to do some surgery.

 

Glad you had a good visit as well, but sorry we didn't meet up.

 

Paul

[Focalplane]

This has nothing to do with Penmaenpool, but I did spend some time on Finney7's stand talking to Richard Lambert about their Princess Coronation kit.  I really want to take this kit on next year, along with everything else.  His unpainted model is quite simply delightful.  I would build the kit as 46235 City of Birmingham as prepared for the Museum of Science and Industry on Newhall Street, i.e. non-semi smokebox, BR lined green.  Steph Dale also showed me the prototype etch for the Semi so this could be an option for many modellers.  Except I never saw a Semi even though we used that nickname a lot at Tamworth.  I happen to have taken three King driver wheelsets with me as last year I had asked if I could exchange them.  Well, Slaters came through and I traded the King drivers for a set of Princess Coronation drivers!  So now I am committed to buy the Finney7 kit in the new year.

 

Incidentally, Finney7 will sell a Nickel Silver etch kit at a 10% premium if that is what you want.  At one time David Andrews offered a similar upgrade.  Having built a couple of all nickel silver etch locos from Modern Outline I do rather like the finished article prior to priming.  But either way, they are all basically brass alloy kits.

 

Paul

[daifly]

No idea of date or location but the shed plate on the photo looks like 85D which ties in with Kidderminster late 50s - early 60s.

Dave

[Focalplane]

Thanks, Dave

 

I have a photo of 4175 at Cleobury Mortimer which fits with 85D but earlier research also brought up Tyseley 84E. The plates I have include 84E which fits with the Philip Hawkins painting which itself was, I believe, based on a photograph.

 

The class was perfect for the Birmingham area, requiring tractive effort to haul long suburban trains up Hatton, Wilmcote banks, etc, while their acceleration helped to keep the commuters happy by keeping to schedule!

 

Paul

[Focalplane]

Heljan 61xx: Two bogies in one sealed sachet, one screw only. Heljan, please get it right!

 

Email to Howes, let’s see what happens next. I am in no hurry but it’s still annoying to fnd missing parts.

 

Paul