Focalplane Posted August 5, 2017 Author Share Posted August 5, 2017 I have also been busy with a wish list for Telford on September 2nd. I was really hopeful that some laser kits might either fit prototype buildings or at least be capable of being modified, but so far no luck whatsoever. So it looks as though the techniques used for the engine shed and office will have to be employed for the station building, foreman's house, signal box, platform shelters and various goods yard buildings. Which means I will be looking for architectural detailing rather than kits. In itself this is not a problem but on the day it may well be frustrating. At the moment it looks like I will be traveling to Telford from Porthmadog so an early start will be necessary in order to be there when the doors open. The first two hours will have to be allocating to picking up pre-ordered items as well as chatting with suppliers with long lead items. Then a quick survey of who may have what I need. Then lunch. Then a second pass through the exhibition to find out what I don't know. That could take at least a week! But I only have one day. If you see a "speedy gonzales" character rushing around you will probably have seen me. Fleetingly. 1 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
daifly Posted August 5, 2017 Share Posted August 5, 2017 My choice of a 43XX mogul is also difficult as all those in photos seem to have been based at Didcot according to the available databases. I suspect that you have a fair amount of flexibility. Here's 7313 - Croes Newydd-based - in disgrace near Barmouth. Dave Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Marshall5 Posted August 5, 2017 Share Posted August 5, 2017 Hi Paul. I take it that you're thinking of a Heljan 43xx and your cut off date, say, 1959? That does limit your choice as the Heljan model only covers 4321 to 5383 and my research over the years (having a 7 1/4"g. live steam mogul) leaves me to believe that there are a lot of variations within even this sub-class. As you probably know 88 of the 43xx and 12 of the 53xx were withdrawn in the late 30's and replaced by 68/78xx. By 1959 only 1 43xx was left and scrapping of the 53xx had begun in earnest. So, as far as the Cambrian section is concerned, by the late 50's the 63/73xx predominated. Looking at various photos and shed allocations I came up with 3 possibilities. 5319 Croes Newydd in 1950 and at Salop up to withdrawal 11/59. 5378 phot @ Arthog 50's wdn CYND 9/62. 5399 allocated CHR 1950, still there 1957 CYND 59 - withdrawal 9/62. This loco features in many photos on the Ruabon - Barmouth and seemed to be around every time I visited! Now - someone will say that I'm wrong as 5399 is from the later lot built with the smaller radius motion plates and other changes introduced from 5384 which it was... However it came out of Swindon 2/57 fitted with outside steampipe cylinders but with other, older features such as the distinctive large radius motion plate, Dean taper buffers, small boss drivers etc. My suspicion is that it had a frame/cylinder swap with 5307 or 17 which were dismantled a few weeks earlier - I haven't been able to establish if the cab was swapped. Sometime around 1959 it acquired Collett type buffers. It came out of Swindon in plain black with the large 'cycling lion' crest and, AFAIK, was still in this livery at withdrawal. So a Heljan one could reasonably be renumbered as 5399 after rebuilding in 1957. Hope this helps. Ray. 1 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Focalplane Posted August 6, 2017 Author Share Posted August 6, 2017 Hi Paul. I take it that you're thinking of a Heljan 43xx and your cut off date, say, 1959? That does limit your choice as the Heljan model only covers 4321 to 5383 and my research over the years (having a 7 1/4"g. live steam mogul) leaves me to believe that there are a lot of variations within even this sub-class. As you probably know 88 of the 43xx and 12 of the 53xx were withdrawn in the late 30's and replaced by 68/78xx. By 1959 only 1 43xx was left and scrapping of the 53xx had begun in earnest. So, as far as the Cambrian section is concerned, by the late 50's the 63/73xx predominated. Looking at various photos and shed allocations I came up with 3 possibilities. 5319 Croes Newydd in 1950 and at Salop up to withdrawal 11/59. 5378 phot @ Arthog 50's wdn CYND 9/62. 5399 allocated CHR 1950, still there 1957 CYND 59 - withdrawal 9/62. This loco features in many photos on the Ruabon - Barmouth and seemed to be around every time I visited! Now - someone will say that I'm wrong as 5399 is from the later lot built with the smaller radius motion plates and other changes introduced from 5384 which it was... However it came out of Swindon 2/57 fitted with outside steampipe cylinders but with other, older features such as the distinctive large radius motion plate, Dean taper buffers, small boss drivers etc. My suspicion is that it had a frame/cylinder swap with 5307 or 17 which were dismantled a few weeks earlier - I haven't been able to establish if the cab was swapped. Sometime around 1959 it acquired Collett type buffers. It came out of Swindon in plain black with the large 'cycling lion' crest and, AFAIK, was still in this livery at withdrawal. So a Heljan one could reasonably be renumbered as 5399 after rebuilding in 1957. Hope this helps. Ray. Yes, the choice is certainly limited if restricted to the Heljan model, but I do have other options in 7mm scale. And I am not averse to modifying a Heljan model. One other option, I think, is 5330, though the numbers are none to clear on the photo I have. I do want a GW mogul on the roster, they outperformed other locomotives in their day, including taking the Cambrian Coast Express single handed at times. And a recorded 70mph near Cosford adds to the attraction. The 75XXX Class 4 may have been a more modern design but doesn't do it for me. On the other hand I have always liked the Oswestry Ivatt 2MTs. Go figure! Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
coachmann Posted August 6, 2017 Share Posted August 6, 2017 Have you got 'Ruabon to Barmouth' by Vic Mitchell & Keith smith (Middleton Press)? GWR Moguls aplenty in there. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Focalplane Posted August 6, 2017 Author Share Posted August 6, 2017 Have you got 'Ruabon to Barmouth' by Vic Mitchell & Keith smith (Middleton Press)? GWR Moguls aplenty in there. You know I hadn't been able to find a copy on their web site, thinking the book would be listed as a Country Railway Route, but is isn't. A further search today reveals that it is listed in the category Western Main Lines! Yet Stratford to Cheltenham, a one time double track main line, is listed in Country Railway Routes! So, I just ordered a copy. Many thanks for reminding me! Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Focalplane Posted August 6, 2017 Author Share Posted August 6, 2017 I have spent some time today examining the 1959 Chester passenger and freight timetables. I concentrated on SX trains for now and it shows approximately 11 train movements each way, including light engine turns to and from the engine shed. It seems possible that late in the day Ruabon-Barmouth trains sent their loco to Penmaenpool along with the Barmouth-Dolgelley local tank engine (7405 most likely) for an overnight rest. I have not yet discovered what happens to the tender loco each morning. As far as using the loop for passing trains, this only happened once a day and then in summer when the Land Cruise trains operated. The majority of trains were passenger with only two freights a day each way. I thus have a good idea of how Penmaenpool can be operated. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
N15class Posted August 6, 2017 Share Posted August 6, 2017 Does the mogul need to be RTR? Mercian http://www.modelrailways.tv/7mm-scale-mainline.html do a nice kit for one. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
daifly Posted August 6, 2017 Share Posted August 6, 2017 Does the mogul need to be RTR? Mercian http://www.modelrailways.tv/7mm-scale-mainline.html do a nice kit for one.If you (or anyone else) want to buy a new, untouched Mercian 63xx kit then PM me! I have one for sale following the purchase of a RTR one from Lionheart.Dave 1 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Focalplane Posted August 7, 2017 Author Share Posted August 7, 2017 Does the mogul need to be RTR? Mercian http://www.modelrailways.tv/7mm-scale-mainline.html do a nice kit for one. So does Warren Shephard - I saw a completed model at Bristol earlier this year. Truth is, I have ordered the Heljan mogul mainly because it won't be available until 2018, thus allowing me to spend on other items first! Paul 1 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Focalplane Posted August 7, 2017 Author Share Posted August 7, 2017 More research now completed using the 1959 timetables for passenger and freight workings. I have tried to limit the schedule to Summer SX workings which included daily Land Cruise trains. Contrary to my earlier post, there were three occasions each day when the passing loop was required, and two of them included a freight working as one of the trains. Two locomotives were stabled at the shed each night, the local passenger tank engine (7405 is often photographed on the Barmouth-Dolgelley service) and a passenger tender loco which pulled the UP 07:20 departure from Barmouth to Wrexham and returned with the 18:45 Birkenhead to Barmouth service. There is no reason why the same loco would have been used on each rotation but clearly it could have been base in Birkenhead, Chester or Croes Newydd. Both locomotives would have been watered at either Dolgelley or Barmouth. Saturday only (SO) services differ a lot with at least one extra service, e.g. from Birmingham/London to Pwllheli via Ruabon. There is no mention of a direct service from Manchester though I believe through coaches were run on other trains. Here are my notes. I cannot guarantee their accuracy! Penmaenpool SX Summer Schedule DOWN 06:15 Passenger engine - light engine from shed to Barmouth (prep for 07:20 departure Barmouth to Ruabon passenger) UP 07:05 Local passenger engine - light engine from shed to Dolgelley (prep for 08:30 departure Dolgelley to Barmouth local passenger) UP 07:41 Passenger (07:20 Barmouth to Ruabon) DOWN 08:08 Freight DOWN 08:35 Local Passenger (8:30 Dolgelley to Barmouth) DOWN 09:43 Passenger (06:55 Wrexham to Barmouth) UP 10:42 Passenger (10:20 Barmouth to Birkenhead) UP 10:54 Freight [DOWN 11:44 Passenger (7:50 Birkenhead to Pwllheli) [ [UP 11:45 Land Cruise (stop) DOWN 12:58 Land Cruise (no stop) DOWN 13:46 Local Passenger (13:41 Dolgelley to Barmouth) [UP 14:58 Passenger (Pwllheli to Birkenhead) [ [DOWN 14:58 Freight DOWN 17:07 Passenger (Wrexham to Pwllheli) [DOWN 18:25 Local Passenger (Dolgelley to Barmouth) [ [UP 18:25 Freight UP 19:37 Passenger & Mail (Barmouth to Chester) UP 21:34 Local passenger (Barmouth to Dolgelley) DOWN 21:50 Local passenger engine - light engine from Dolgelley UP 22:20 Passenger engine - light engine from Barmouth (off 18:45 Ruabon to Barmouth) Notes: SX Summer 1959, 24 hour clock used, [ signifies passing trains Paul Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Focalplane Posted August 11, 2017 Author Share Posted August 11, 2017 My copy of Ruabon-Barmouth by Mitchell and Smith arrived today. The photos of Penmaenpool confirm a few extra features, including a better photo of the engine shed office/mess that clearly shows where to place the stove pipe chimney! It also shows Dailfly's ceramic telephone line insulator! I really like the lamp over the door but it will have to go - that is if I can unglue it! Construction of Module 1 is now delayed until October for the simple reason that I need to measure in interior of the car in England to find out how big a module can be accommodated! My French car is hopelessly constrained for Gauge O! Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Focalplane Posted August 12, 2017 Author Share Posted August 12, 2017 The insulator and stove pipe chimney have been added - see my workbench for photo. Just the glazing to do. Next scenic item will be the water tank but other projects have nipped in front of the queue! Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Focalplane Posted August 20, 2017 Author Share Posted August 20, 2017 Lee Marsh has just announced another high quality option for Penmaenpool - the Collett 0-6-0 Goods. Along with the Manor which has now been priced, these are real contenders if I am to move further away from loco kit building and more into layout construction and scenery. Kit building will continue with the 74XX pannier to be purchased in two weeks time. It is good to see Lee move into the smaller branch line, rural main line world, with the Dean Goods, GWR 517 and 57XX also in production. Perfect for GW modellers with limited space for Gauge O. Passenger stock remains a problem, though the Lionheart B Sets certainly help. And I have on order the Lionheart Autocoach to go with my Oswestry 1459 0-4-2T. This should arrive within the year. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
pwr Posted August 20, 2017 Share Posted August 20, 2017 Lee Marsh has just announced another high quality option for Penmaenpool - the Collett 0-6-0 Goods. Along with the Manor which has now been priced, these are real contenders if I am to move further away from loco kit building and more into layout construction and scenery. Kit building will continue with the 74XX pannier to be purchased in two weeks time. It is good to see Lee move into the smaller branch line, rural main line world, with the Dean Goods, GWR 517 and 57XX also in production. Perfect for GW modellers with limited space for Gauge O. Passenger stock remains a problem, though the Lionheart B Sets certainly help. And I have on order the Lionheart Autocoach to go with my Oswestry 1459 0-4-2T. This should arrive within the year. The new Ellis Clark/ScaleLink RTR MK 1's should help and at £189 each that's a bargain Paul R Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Marshall5 Posted August 21, 2017 Share Posted August 21, 2017 The new Ellis Clark/ScaleLink RTR MK 1's should help and at £189 each that's a bargain Paul R I'd have to check through some dated photos but I don't recollect any Mk1's on the Ruabon - Barmouth Jc. line until the very end i.e. well after Paul's modelling period. Apart from the CCE most coaching stock on the Cambrian section was from the Collett and Hawksworth eras right up to the LMR takeover in 1963. Just after the takeover a few 'oddities' also arrived including a Stanier period 3 push-pull set on the Barmouth - Dolgelley shuttles worked by Ivatt 2-6-0's! Ray. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Focalplane Posted August 21, 2017 Author Share Posted August 21, 2017 (edited) I'd have to check through some dated photos but I don't recollect any Mk1's on the Ruabon - Barmouth Jc. line until the very end i.e. well after Paul's modelling period. Apart from the CCE most coaching stock on the Cambrian section was from the Collett and Hawksworth eras right up to the LMR takeover in 1963. Just after the takeover a few 'oddities' also arrived including a Stanier period 3 push-pull set on the Barmouth - Dolgelley shuttles worked by Ivatt 2-6-0's! Ray. Ray This had also occurred to me but I want to see the quality of these coaches because the photos suggest the interior detail is better than anything else on the market. I could add two custard and cream coaches to my Midlander rake (a separate project, obviously) because I really don't get on well with the JLTRT kits. At the moment I am building two ex-LMS Porthole coaches to replace the Mark Is, so it is possible that these could find themselves passing through Penmaenpool on Saturday Only holiday excursions while the Mark 1s are coupled to the Midlander behind Polyphemus, somewhere between Wolverhampton High Level and Euston. I did ride the CCE on a number of occasions and I can only remember that the corridor stock was "old", certainly not of Mark I modernity. The problem for me is that there don't seem to be many Collett or Hawksworth options (JLTRT aside) in Gauge O at the moment. Paul Edited August 21, 2017 by Focalplane Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
coachmann Posted August 21, 2017 Share Posted August 21, 2017 One can see from the numerous B&R railway videos how things changed around 1964-5. The vacuum was filled with Mk.I's. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Marshall5 Posted August 21, 2017 Share Posted August 21, 2017 The problem for me is that there don't seem to be many Collett or Hawksworth options (JLTRT aside) in Gauge O at the moment. Paul The G0G models directory lists Haywood, Hurn and Orion as having Collett and/or Hawksworth stock in their ranges. Of these I've only built one Haywood kit but it went together well and had very comprehensive instructions - on a C.D. The owner of Haywood usually has a good stock of kits at the shows he attends and also offers a RTR service. IIRC the Orion ones may be ex Sidelines. Hope this helps. Ray. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Focalplane Posted August 22, 2017 Author Share Posted August 22, 2017 Ray Thanks very much for the leads on coaches which I am following up. So far I have a couple of Telford GOG stands to add to my list - Invertrains and CPL. Paul Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jintyman Posted August 22, 2017 Share Posted August 22, 2017 I built an Orion Autotrailer earlier on my Talyllyn thread. Unique way of slot and tab for the body corners but it worked beautifully. The whole coach is very detailed including the underframe, cab, etc Jinty Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Focalplane Posted August 22, 2017 Author Share Posted August 22, 2017 I built an Orion Autotrailer earlier on my Talyllyn thread. Unique way of slot and tab for the body corners but it worked beautifully. The whole coach is very detailed including the underframe, cab, etc Jinty Jinty, thanks for the recommendation. Who do I go to for Orion kits? They are not listed as an exhibitor at Telford. I like slot and tab (or is it tab and slot?) and will be availing myself of a 64XX kit from MOK. It will in fact end up being a 74XX as seen at Penmaenpool. Only minor changes necessary Paul Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Marshall5 Posted August 22, 2017 Share Posted August 22, 2017 Orion's contact details as per G0G traders' details: Orion Rail Kits J.D. Colebrooke 32 Bracken Rd. Tunbridge Wells Kent TN2 3LU e-mail j.d,colebrooke@talk21.com phone 01892 537236 .. and from the product directory this is the list of coach kits - they supply a lot of GW carriage components/details also. Orion Rail Kits E-mail Coaches Kits Great Western C77 Collett Corridor 3rd Orion Rail Kits E-mail Coaches Kits Great Western A38 A39 A40 Hawksworth Auto Coach Orion Rail Kits E-mail Coaches Kits Great Western C83 Hawksworth Suburban Third Orion Rail Kits E-mail Coaches Kits Great Western E156 Collett Suburban Composite Orion Rail Kits E-mail Coaches Kits Great Western E159 Collett Corridor Brake Composite Orion Rail Kits E-mail Coaches Kits Great Western E158 Collett Corridor Composite Orion Rail Kits E-mail Coaches Kits Great Western D127 Collett Corridor Brake Third Orion Rail Kits E-mail Non-passenger coaching stock Kits Great Western Q13 Hawksworth Inspection Saloon Orion Rail Kits E-mail Non-passenger coaching stock Kits Great Western K42 Collett Full Brake Cheers, Ray Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Focalplane Posted August 22, 2017 Author Share Posted August 22, 2017 Ray, thanks! And here I am, a GOG member! Again, thank you, Paul Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jintyman Posted August 22, 2017 Share Posted August 22, 2017 (edited) Jinty, thanks for the recommendation. Who do I go to for Orion kits? They are not listed as an exhibitor at Telford. I like slot and tab (or is it tab and slot?) and will be availing myself of a 64XX kit from MOK. It will in fact end up being a 74XX as seen at Penmaenpool. Only minor changes necessary Paul I believe the Orion kits can also be provided through Ragstone Models. I'm not sure if they have a stall at Telford but their web address is: http://www.ragstonemodels.co.uk/index.html Regards Jinty Edited August 22, 2017 by Jintyman Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
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