‘Adaptable Carriage’ concept accommodates freight on passenger trains

[DavidB-AU]

A new system which enables passenger train interiors to be reconfigured to carry freight is ready for trials, according to its developer.

 

The Adaptable Carriage system developed by 42 Technology, Britain, allows seats and tables to be automatically stowed to create space for low-density high-value packages.

 

http://www.railjournal.com/index.php/technology/adaptable-carriage-concept-accommodates-freight-on-passenger-trains.html

 

 

In other news, they have adopted what what the Douglas DC-7 could do in 1963.

 

Cheers

David

[Enterprisingwestern]

Somebody at the company must have a Vauxhall Zafira!

 

Mike.

[Oakydoke]

Somebody at the company must have a Vauxhall Zafira!

 

Mike.

Why, will it burst into flames when least expected?

[big jim]

Why, will it burst into flames when least expected?

I wish mine would, it's a right shed!

 

Regards the idea though, whatever will they think of next, they will be putting lockable parcels areas in the likes of class 150 units, oh hang on!

[Joseph_Pestell]

As OP says, they are only doing what the aviation industry has done for a long time.

 

I doubt whether there is a big demand for such units but it certainly addresses the issue of having a lot of trains that are only used during weekday rush-hours. If the fact that the trains are largely paid for by passenger use means that out-of-hours freight use can be done cheaply, it's worth a try. Parcels is an ever-growing business as we all shop on t'internet.

 

But where would such trains be loaded and unloaded? Most modern stations no longer have good access for the road vehicles that would be needed and the whole operation has to be mechanised as much as possible (robot BRUTEs?) to cut down on manpower costs.

[BG John]

Just think how many passengers could be carried if they were packed into boxes and stacked on top of each other .

[pete_mcfarlane]

Just think how many passengers could be carried if they were packed into boxes and stacked on top of each other .

Don't give Ryanair ideas.....

[Pacific231G]

Just think how many passengers could be carried if they were packed into boxes and stacked on top of each other .

Bulleid's attempt at a double deck coach seemed to fulfil that idea but people take up less room if they stand so apparently that's what the Elizabeth Line* will do with a bench seat on either side. 

 

*(That name really doesn't work. I think it's because it starts wih a vowel unlike the Victoria Line or the Jubilee line, I'm not being ant- monarchist as I think the Queen Elizabeth line would sound much better)

[Hesperus]

I wonder if it could be adapted with a small section moving to give more/less wheelchair spaces?

 

Anything that gets freight off the roads and onto the rails is good in my book.  I would love to see a late night parcels service running on each line that carried passengers too.  I'm not certain how the current system for penalising late running could be adapted to allow the somewhat casual attitude to timekeeping such a service would need though.

[Fat Controller]

In BR days, it was not unknown for DMMUs and EMUS to be used late-evening/ early morning for parcels and mails traffic by the simple expedient of dumping the sacks on seats and aisles. When some of the older units had been superseded, they had the seats removed and continued in this traffic.

[wombatofludham]

I did wonder a while back if, with all the 14x railbus units being sidelined in the next couple of years, whether they could be rebuilt by removing the passenger cabin and installing some sort of loading device to allow swap bodies to be easily attached.  Being lightweight and relatively short, they could theoretically pitch up at any level siding space.  My thought was perhaps it might appeal to supermarkets trying to deliver to more rural areas.  You could imagine a train of say a couple of these units being loaded at a rail served distribution centre, then attaching to say an Aberystwyth and Pwllheli service, with one unit uncoupling at say Welshpool for the local supermarkets there, and a second going on to Aberystwyth for local collection there.  Being DMUs they could easily attach and detach to passenger services in the more remote rural areas saving paths (and drivers) but could also run as multiple units in themselves for trunk flows.  It must cost supermarkets a lot to serve the more remote areas of Britain where road links are poor, mid Wales, parts of Scotland and the South West spring to mind, so using a train which is already running using modified passenger kit which is surplus (and hopefully cheaper to acquire) might make the economics a bit easier especially if there was outside assistance.

 

I know this was supposed to be the idea behind containerisation originally, and more recently the "Freight DMU" but containers seem to be mostly deep sea based now and the Freight DMU doesn't seem to have hit the mark.

[The Johnster]

I can see the idea of this being used for parcels delivery in the age of internet shopping, especially in remote areas such as those already mentioned and the likes of the West Highland and Far North lines.  But Royal Mail seem to have this already pretty well covered, and stock designed for passenger use is not usually capable of taking on anything but the lightest of freight, especially the hopefully soon-to-be-surplus and life expired anyway 142/3s.  

 

It might be a better idea to provide freight vehicles with their own, on board, loading and unloading equipment, so that facilities on the ground could be less formal and investment-heavy; nobody's got room for a freight yard used once in a blue moon with land prices the way they are these days, and a train that could turn up at, say, Aberystwyth. and unload itself onto the trackside or direct to road vehicles for local delivery, might make an impact on lorry traffic on the narrow, twisty, prone-to-closure-when-it-snows A44.  Extend the idea to Kyle of Lochalsh, or Thurso, or even perhaps Penzance or Milford Haven, and you might have a feasible concept.

 

But the railway, since 1955, has been adapting itself to bulk block traffic, and it will be difficult to change mindsets.

[The Stationmaster]

Hardly 'freight' but certainly a possibility for parcels traffic and some of the old passenger rated traffics.

 

HOWEVER I can see potential handling problems as it would be difficult to use forklifts or pallet trucks to access most passenger vehicles and while the photo shows stillages the handling of them over different platform heights would not be easy.  And there is another large problem as many stations, especially those in city centre locations, have completely lost the necessary facilities to handle and tranship anything above individual package size between road and rail.  Not much use having a train which can convey even stillages if you can't get them to it in the first place!  

[Dunsignalling]

I did wonder a while back if, with all the 14x railbus units being sidelined in the next couple of years, whether they could be rebuilt by removing the passenger cabin and installing some sort of loading device to allow swap bodies to be easily attached.  Being lightweight and relatively short, they could theoretically pitch up at any level siding space.  My thought was perhaps it might appeal to supermarkets trying to deliver to more rural areas.  You could imagine a train of say a couple of these units being loaded at a rail served distribution centre, then attaching to say an Aberystwyth and Pwllheli service, with one unit uncoupling at say Welshpool for the local supermarkets there, and a second going on to Aberystwyth for local collection there.  Being DMUs they could easily attach and detach to passenger services in the more remote rural areas saving paths (and drivers) but could also run as multiple units in themselves for trunk flows.  It must cost supermarkets a lot to serve the more remote areas of Britain where road links are poor, mid Wales, parts of Scotland and the South West spring to mind, so using a train which is already running using modified passenger kit which is surplus (and hopefully cheaper to acquire) might make the economics a bit easier especially if there was outside assistance.

 

I know this was supposed to be the idea behind containerisation originally, and more recently the "Freight DMU" but containers seem to be mostly deep sea based now and the Freight DMU doesn't seem to have hit the mark.

Do what you like with the ruddy awful things, just make sure there is absolutely no way of them ever carrying people again

 

This does sound like a practical idea, though, as IIRC the chassis is derived from [the MGR hopper] wagons.  (see subsequent posts putting me right on this)

 

John

[Fat Controller]

Do what you like with the ruddy awful things, just make sure there is absolutely no way of them ever carrying people again

 

This does sound like a practical idea, though, as IIRC the chassis is derived from the MGR hopper wagons.  

 

John

The 'Pacer' chassis was developed from the ones used for the High-Speed Freight Vehicle experiments carried out at Derby from the late 1960s. These were based on the chassis used on air-braked vans, so a bit longer than the MGR hopper. The  various suspension systems used on the HSFVs were, if anything, more sophisticated than those on Pacers, with axles having some latitude to 'steer' around curves, secondary dampers etc.

[Hesperus]

I thought they were based on a 'high speed wagon' which I took to be VAA type things which are a bit longer than MGR's. 

 

I put an idea along these lines into the fictional loco thread a while ago and built a flatbed 142,  I'll try and find a picture.

 

edit,  took too long to type that

[Nearholmer]

Had a look at this, and various high-density seating/perching concepts, at Railtex earlier today.

 

The reinvention of "railway parcels" as container-trolleys in passenger space looked perfectly sensible to me if, massively big if, it can be done when spare space is guaranteed, and I'm constantly surprised by how busy trains are at all hours of the day and night ....... nabbing part of the first class area off-peak would work on a lot of Virgin WC services, though.

 

The perching systems looked to me like a series of bad-tempered squabbles waiting to happen, though. Unless the TOC configured, and locked into configuration, sections of train before a journey started, they would cause fisticuffs at Hayward Heath! And, there is bound to be an argument about differential pricing for perches and seats ......... interesting times.

[kevinlms]

 

 

In other news, they have adopted what what the Douglas DC-7 could do in 1963.

 

Cheers

David

The idea of Combi aircraft (part passenger, part freight) didn't work too well on Flight 295 (South African Airways) using a Boeing 747-244B Combi.

 

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/South_African_Airways_Flight_295

[frobisher]

It must cost supermarkets a lot to serve the more remote areas of Britain where road links are poor, mid Wales, parts of Scotland and the South West spring to mind...

In the Scottish instance, if the road links are bad, the rail access is likely to be even worse at a particular location. A lot of supermarket traffic for the North Highlands and Orkney travels by train to Georgemas Junction as I understand it, before transferring to lorry from there onwards.

[Hesperus]

Dug this out and remembered that I was going to make some containers for it.

 

[toffee]

 

Reading this thread I see a fair amount of wishful thinking, as a former postie at a major station I saw so many mistakes made by BR as regards our mails. Going to a 150 which should have had a few mailbags travelling in a locked off saloon to find the saloon unlocked with people sitting in it with the mailbags just tossed in a corner.......going to put some bags into the front ex. Guard van 125 power car to find the lock was knackered and I couldn't unlock it and the train had to go without the mails.. mailbags being throw on a train getting lost onto the track and missing the service....I could go on.... all mistakes had to be reported to PO HQ and no doubt helped build the case to dump BR and use our own lorries as with them we had total control of security and access which believe me is a MAJOR concern at all times.

Having the ability to put some ' York ' cages in a passenger train is really no big deal, it's only what happens in a 325 without passengers. To have mails on passenger trains again or even private carriers doing it raises the problem of security and staffing costs at stations which are both big. It's far simpler to run a road vehicle from a secured warehouse to another warehouse, the PO/ carrier has total control over the timetable/security with only the road speed as the variable. Facilities would have to be put back in at passenger stations. Staff moved from their main jobs in PO centres just to load one or two trains in the majority of cases etc, to my mind it's a no go apart from the use of the 325s from a few hubs. O

[andi4x4]

Dug this out and remembered that I was going to make some containers for it.

 

IMG_20170511_173051904.jpg

 

 

I like your thinking.....

 

But,

 

Doesn't something like this already exist in the form of the MPV's  with interchangable modules as used for weedkiller/sandite trains ?  Or am I getting confused and thinking two different vehicles are the same thing ?!

[Dunsignalling]

Why not split them up into separate cars, rip half the seats out, add bike racks and attach one to the ends of 150/153/156 formed services in tourist areas.  

 

It would get rid of the restrictions on numbers of bikes carried, avoid them blocking gangways when the permitted number gets exceeded and keep muddy/sweaty cyclists away from the rest of the passengers.

  

 

John

[The Stationmaster]

Why not split them up into separate cars, rip half the seats out, add bike racks and attach one to the ends of 150/153/156 formed services in tourist areas.  

 

It would get rid of the restrictions on numbers of bikes carried, avoid them blocking gangways when the permitted number gets exceeded and keep muddy/sweaty cyclists away from the rest of the passengers.

  

 

John

 

Round here even a single bike blocks the gangways!  Anything to get shot of them.

[The Johnster]

Why not split them up into separate cars, rip half the seats out, add bike racks and attach one to the ends of 150/153/156 formed services in tourist areas.  

 

It would get rid of the restrictions on numbers of bikes carried, avoid them blocking gangways when the permitted number gets exceeded and keep muddy/sweaty cyclists away from the rest of the passengers.

  

 

John

 

Even better, it'd keep the passengers away from us muddy/sweaty cyclists...

 

Troll, me, never!