For those interested in old buses (and coaches)

[leopardml2341]

Keep forgetting that after the NBC was formed Bedford and Ford chassis were used .

The bus in question was built 2yrs before NBC was formed though

Edited September 1, 2017 by leopardml2341

[Enterprisingwestern]

Just a bit concerned that people seem to be liking the fact that I burned mi band, sob!

 

Could've been worse, you might have burnt your ring?

 

Mike.

[Gwiwer]

WN took this batch of Bedfords as an emergency stop-gap, I believe, as their preferred SU and MW types were obsolete, there was a hiatus in the supply of small lightweight saloons until the LH was ready but the bodies were already in-build when Bristol cried off. WN accepted the Bedford as an alternative to an uncertain delay in LH production and to urgently replace the last L-type saloons some of which survived until the late 1960s.

 

NBC Ford and Bedford chassis came rather later.

[RANGERS]

Interesting vehicle, can't find any reference to it in Western National fleetlists.

 

Edit:

 

The reg is KDV137F, and not KOV..... as I first thought.

 

A further search reveals that it's actually a Bedford VAM5 chassis and not a Bristol. Still has ECW bodywork, front entrance 41 seat, new to Western National in 1967 as their fleet number 707.

 

A newer front facing pic here:

 

https://www.flickr.com/photos/35992382@N00/31304160454/in/photolist-PGf1ho

 

There were only 14 built, Western National having 12 (700-711) and Eastern Counties the other 2. Altogether a bit of an oddity.

 

There were 20 in total of these built for the Tilling group, 12 Bedford VAM5 (Bedford 330 engine) and 8 Bedford VAM14 (Leyland 0400 engine), with identical 41 seat ECW bodies based on the design for the Bristol SU. Eastern Counties had two of each, West Yorkshire four VAM14 and the rest were the Western National VAM5 vehicles.

 

Although the combination with ECW bodies wasn't common, Bedfords entered service in big numbers with the ex Tilling and BET companies, OBs to begin with followed by SB and VAM coaches and a handful of VALs. By NBC days, a reappraisal of their vehicle needs brought orders for large numbers of YRT/ YRQ coaches and a smaller number of buses. Ford also did pretty well from that little exercise.

[John M Upton]

I don't suppose any of those ECW Bedfords survived did they?

[Gwiwer]

I don't suppose any of those ECW Bedfords survived did they?

 

Of the various sites and enthusiast's body records I checked I cannot find any trace of a survivor.  Similar bodies survive but with the more common Bristol MW or LH chassis beneath them.  The WN batch were to be found working out of Kingsbridge and Newquay depots and have been described as "noisy little beasts" with the engine right next to the driver.  Given the hills found in those areas that is hardly surprising.

[RANGERS]

I don't suppose any of those ECW Bedfords survived did they?

I don't suppose any of those ECW Bedfords survived did they?

I hope not, the VAM was an instrument of torture, from noise for the driver and front passengers in particular, and in trying to stop the front end falling off for the engineers. For the former it was down to a pretty raucous choice of engines and for the latter, the tendency for the chassis to crack ahead of the front Spring hanger mounts, largely due to the weight of the aforesaid engine being unsupported. Out on a longish front overhang.

 

Seriously though, the last one I heard of was in service with Primrose Valley of Filey in the mid-1980s, there was some speculation that the East Anglian Collection would take, it but it was in very poor shape by the time it was eventually withdrawn. Even so, 18 years would have been a fairly significant age for a VAM, most saw less than 10.

[runs as required]

IIRC Bedfords were acquired in quite large numbers by the Tilling companies in the early 1950s.

Eastern National for example had a lot of Beadle bodied Bedfords that always looked like they were weight saving (with a similar look to the Beadle bodied Ribble undrfloor horizontal engined Sentinels).

 

A mystery to me is why Bedford, the GM's leading UK volume commercial vehicle builder (and exported to so many Commonwealth countries) seemed to disappear without trace while I was working abroad during the 1970s.

What made GM shut Bedford down?

 

dh

Edited September 1, 2017 by runs as required

[John M Upton]

Bedford became the commercial vehicles arm of Vauxhall and the Bedford name was dropped.

 

West Sussex County Council had a couple of front engined Bedford's in the early 1980's with horrible 3 and 2 bench seating pretty much like a Prison Bus complete with blue paint job.  They also had a couple of really ugly Ford R1014's with square Locomotors bodywork and then two more with marginally better Wadham Stringer bodies.  Then they ditched the lot and traded them in for a mixed bag of twenty year plus clapped out old ECW Bristol RE's including some of the rarer coach bodied variety.

Edited September 2, 2017 by John M Upton

[SRman]

Back in the earlier 1960s, I used to get regular trips in West Sussex County Council Bedfords, again in their dull blue scheme, on weekly school trips to the swimming pool in Haslett Avenue, Crawley. We could get either or both Bedford OB or SB models. Even as a youngster I found them amazingly primitive compared the LTs RT and RF families on our regular bus routes.

[RANGERS]

IIRC Bedfords were acquired in quite large numbers by the Tilling companies in the early 1950s.

Eastern National for example had a lot of Beadle bodied Bedfords that always looked like they were weight saving (with a similar look to the Beadle bodied Ribble undrfloor horizontal engined Sentinels).

 

A mystery to me is why Bedford, the GM's leading UK volume commercial vehicle builder (and exported to so many Commonwealth countries) seemed to disappear without trace while I was working abroad during the 1970s.

What made GM shut Bedford down?

 

dh

 

The Eastern National ones weren't strictly Bedfords, they were integrals built by Beadle with Bedford running units, much of the running gear initially being sourced from ex military trucks. They built similar units with Leyland and Dennis running gear, though in much smaller numbers. It was a way of providing 'new' buses for an overstretched transport sector when new vehicles were still in short supply and there was an emphasis on export.

 

GM called time on Bedford in 1987, by that stage the early 80s recession had taken a heavy toll on the truck and bus market, plus it was moving towards much more sophisticated heavyweights with a higher specification and more power. Bedford had tried to crack this with the TM truck and YNT/ YNV coach but both were a bit of a half way house, neither were really up to the job they were being pitched for. Engines were an issue, in-house options peaked at just over 200bhp when the market was looking at nearer 300 and the cost of development was too great for cash strapped GM to fund. Outside engines were available but costs increased as a result, not something an increasingly competitive market wold stand. GM attempted to buy Leyland's truck division to give access to product and engines for this sector, but politics intervened, resistance to an overseas buyer controlling the UK's last heavy commercial manufacturer was too much to contemplate, despite GM and Bedford having been the primary partners in supplying more than half the UK military truck requirements since the 1940s. That left GM with little option but to pull out. A sale of Land Rover to GM had also been declined.

 

The business, and eventually the name, was sold to AWD who limped on until 1992 on the back of some military orders but the business collapsed into administration. The assets subsequently being sold to Marshalls of Cambridge.

 

Ironically the Government later sanctioned the sale of Leyland Trucks to DAF, happily that resulted in continued production at most of the Leyland plants still left at that time and although the Leyland name died in the early 2000s, Leyland still produces huge numbers of trucks for export around the world.

[PhilJ W]

Eastern National had ten Bedford-Beadles in all, Very early in their lives the Bedford 6 cylinder petrol engines were replaced by Gardener 4LW diesel engines. Nine of these buses when EN withdrew them in 1960 were sold on to an operator in Macau where they gave up to another ten years service.

[ColinK]

Just picked up next week's duties. I'm driving the Morecambe - Mallham 881 next Sunday (10th September). Looking forward to it. If anyone comes along for the exciting ride, say hello.

[great central]

Looking through the fence at the Lynx bus compound beside Kings Lynn stadium, there's a Leyland National, looks like it's still in service. Didn't think there were any left outside preservation

[Gwiwer]

Looking through the fence at the Lynx bus compound beside Kings Lynn stadium, there's a Leyland National, looks like it's still in service. Didn't think there were any left outside preservation

 

If it is in service it won't be on public fare-paying runs.  Step-entrance buses are no longer permitted.  The Leyland National was a huge improvement over previous high-floor designs but still had shallow steps at the entrance.  I believe they could still be used on school contracts subject to the vehicle detail as specified in that contract.  And they can be used on special operations which are not considered for "hire and reward".

[runs as required]

I must thank RANGERS post #436 and PhilJ W post #437 for their detailed and interesting responses to my 'whatever happened to Bedford' post above.

 

It is interesting that in places like West Africa (and in tiny Malta) Bedford still lives on as an everyday logo in local transportation - though very suspect in terms of the actual mechanics and power units beneath the bonnet and cab shell.

The local paraffin (petrolju) truck in Valletta is still a much loved air-braked TK

 

And thank you for reminding me that the Tilling Beadle Bedfords were chassisless..

dh

[RANGERS]

If it is in service it won't be on public fare-paying runs.  Step-entrance buses are no longer permitted.  The Leyland National was a huge improvement over previous high-floor designs but still had shallow steps at the entrance.  I believe they could still be used on school contracts subject to the vehicle detail as specified in that contract.  And they can be used on special operations which are not considered for "hire and reward".

 

Sadly that sums it up, PSV Accessibility Regs have put paid to a number of older vehicles being used, although if its being operated as a 'heritage' vehicle, it can run a number of days a year (18 I think it is) on ordinary services. I believe TfL run the heritage RMs on route 15 on this basis. One exception is if its one of the handful of Nationals built as coaches, if its still certified as such, it can be used on regular services until the end 0f 2019.

[DerekEm8]

Part of the line up at  Heaton Park (Manchester) this morning - Not good weather.

 

 

 

Edited September 3, 2017 by DerekEm8

[RANGERS]

Part of the line up at  Heaton Park (Manchester) this morning - Not good weather.

 

HP 030917 .jpg

 

looks risky taking buses on to that ground!

[John M Upton]

Overland Travel of Angmering in West Sussex continue to operate three Mk1 Nationals (all ex London I think) on local contract hire jobs, indeed I do believe they may have recently acquired a fourth one!

Overland Travel LS30 (KJD 530P) Chichester 20/6/14 by John Upton, on Flickr

[russ p]

What a foul livery, its got a black P plate which has only just become legal.

Looks in decent condition so would be great if it got a decent ( NBC red!) Paint job

[Gwiwer]

What a foul livery, its got a black P plate which has only just become legal.

Looks in decent condition so would be great if it got a decent ( NBC red!) Paint job

 

But it won't get round many of its former Hounslow routes any more if it reverted to red.  Many now use roads too small for even a 10.6m non-standard Leyland National and can only be accessed by the diminutive Enviro200MMCs.  The odd length of London's LS7-57 arose from the fact that the order was placed by the Venezuelan government but cancelled at a late stage.  They were bought by LT who had trialled LS1-6 (standard 10.3m buses) on the S2 and were suitably impressed especially given the reduced price.  At that time the Leyland National was generally only offered in NBC-standard 11.3m and subsequently 10.3m versions.

[John M Upton]

There was a 10.9 m version for the Australian market (All long length bays in the back half, short length bays in the front half IIRC) of which one, presumably the Leyland prototype did remain in the UK.  The Mk2 with its front mounted radiator took the two standard length models forward by 30cm to 10.6 and 11.6m.

[SRman]

There was a 10.9 m version for the Australian market (All long length bays in the back half, short length bays in the front half IIRC) of which one, presumably the Leyland prototype did remain in the UK.  The Mk2 with its front mounted radiator took the two standard length models forward by 30cm to 10.6 and 11.6m.

 

It was the other way round, John: long bays for the front, up to and including the centre door bay (where fitted, as was the case with most of the Australian ones), then short bays for the back bits - this kept the rear overhang down as well, better suited to Australian roads. The reasons given for the hybrid length were axle loading restrictions.

 

This was one of seven Brisbane City Council examples with several non-standard features (look at those windows!) - not my photo, so I can only provide a link https://www.busaustralia.com/gallery/displayimage.php?album=19&pos=2[/url]

[45156]

Coming out of the car boot sale at Lancaster and Morecambe college yesterday, I was gratified to be joined in the traffic queue for the lights by two ex Ribble double deckers, one in the old maroon, and the other in NBC red - the latter appeared to be an Atlantean.  They were going to Morecambe for the annual vintage fair which includes a vintage bus service, and a display of classic cars.