For those interested in old buses (and coaches)

[Gwiwer]

I understand that not every RMC was considered fit for anything but the cutters torch.  Ditto with the green RMLs.  A few were broken up simply because they were beyond recall.

 

Speaking of Routemasters I made a now-rare trip through central London today and intentionally waited for the RM on the 15 rather than using what ever came along.  The service is advertised as every 20 minutes (a cut from every 15 minutes when the heritage operation began) but I waited 35.  To be fair the heritage route passes through some of London's most congested streets and the 25-minute running time is usually complete fiction.  Today we took 48 minutes to reach the Tower from mid-way along the Strand.  Fleet Street and Eastcheap were, as ever, the worst offenders with the latter causing us to stand immobile for 12 minutes at one point.

 

The bus was very lightly loaded and no-one else seemed to be aboard just because it was a "Heritage Routemaster".  Most were hopping on the first bus which came along; one or two were visitors clearly unused to boarding at the back and taking their seats before the conductor checked their passes.  Gone are the days of "Fares please" of course.  It's a scanner on your Oyster or PAYG card now.  

 

My ride was one of the recently-refurbished vehicles which looked and sounded in good order.  Sadly not all the RMs on the service were as good with one in particular looking as though it hadn't seen any TLC in many years.  That isn't a good advertisement for the service.

 

I honestly wonder how much longer TfL can keep this going.  It isn't usually busy, it doesn't attract enthusiasts in any meaningful numbers and it requires a complete contract of its own separate from the main route 15.  And it requires a crew of two.  It's very useful on occasions having an empty bus starting from the Tower of London when everything coming in from the east end is at what we used to call a "three-bell load".  But even the Routemaster fan and enthusiast in me concedes that these vehicles are as old as I am and might be losing more money than their retention is worth.  Especially with TfL having a major black hole in its budget and thinning out many bus services where spare capacity exists.

[E3109]

TBH Gwiwer I wasn't even aware of the fact that this service produces the occasional heritage bus, thanks a lot for the gen but maybe that's why few cranks were aboard?

 

I do peruse the bus mags at "Generous John's" from time to time (aka Menzies/WH Smith) so I'm sort of still in the loop, my point is TfL should publicise this service a bit more. Or maybe they don't because they want rid.

[Gwiwer]

Routemaster operation in London has never actually ceased. They have served the Capital continuously for something like 63 years. After the final rites and “London’s last Routemaster” on the 137 TfL introduced a heritage operation on parts of routes 9 and 15. They do not fall foul of accessibility legislation because they are a “tourist attraction” and all buses on the main routes are compliant.

 

That on the 9 covered the Royal Albert Hall to Aldwych secrion and on the 15 from Trafalgar Square to Tower of London. All TfL tickets and passes are valid and these ran effectively as duplicates to the main service. The route 9 operation ceased a couple of years ago citing costs very much in excess of patronage.

 

TfL does make mention of the heritage operation on the 15 but does not actively promote it. It seems to be aimed at tourists but most will hop on the first bus which arrives. You can, after all, get on at the back of a stylishly curvy “New Routemaster” on the 15 which run much more frequently than the real ones.

 

Aside from patronage versus cost the imminent introduction of the Ultra Low Emission Zone will force the RMs into retirement unless they undergo expensive re-engining. A cost TfL is probably unable to afford.

 

And the ULEZ will also force other Routemasters off the streets such as those which offer tours, parties, private hires and provide essential extra services on tube strike days along with some even older RTs.

[Unicorn1]

Utterly trivial but I always found it amusing that the youngest of the vast RT fleet were those wearing OLD registrations.

Indeed, the number series was set to continue, and RM1 was initially allocated the registration number OLD862 and RM2 OLD863. RM1's reg was changed to SLT56 on 5th December 1955.

Les

[Enterprisingwestern]

Routemaster operation in London has never actually ceased. They have served the Capital continuously for something like 63 years. After the final rites and “London’s last Routemaster” on the 137 TfL introduced a heritage operation on parts of routes 9 and 15. They do not fall foul of accessibility legislation because they are a “tourist attraction” and all buses on the main routes are compliant.

 

That on the 9 covered the Royal Albert Hall to Aldwych secrion and on the 15 from Trafalgar Square to Tower of London. All TfL tickets and passes are valid and these ran effectively as duplicates to the main service. The route 9 operation ceased a couple of years ago citing costs very much in excess of patronage.

 

TfL does make mention of the heritage operation on the 15 but does not actively promote it. It seems to be aimed at tourists but most will hop on the first bus which arrives. You can, after all, get on at the back of a stylishly curvy “New Routemaster” on the 15 which run much more frequently than the real ones.

 

Aside from patronage versus cost the imminent introduction of the Ultra Low Emission Zone will force the RMs into retirement unless they undergo expensive re-engining. A cost TfL is probably unable to afford.

 

And the ULEZ will also force other Routemasters off the streets such as those which offer tours, parties, private hires and provide essential extra services on tube strike days along with some even older RTs.

 

Will there be no exemption for preserved vehicles when the new laws come into force?

London will be a boring place if all "interesting" vehicles were to disappear.

 

Mike.

[Gwiwer]

According to the Mayor, who ultimately wields the power in these matters, no exemptions will be permitted other than for those vehicles already covered by vintage car legislation on special occasions. 

 

It is possible to fit a Euro6 engine into the Routemaster as former TfL Surface Transport Director Sir Peter Hendy has done with his personal Routemaster.  That would meet ULEZ requirements.  But the cost of everyone who currently runs a single-figure number of old buses (not all of which are Routemasters) in London is probably prohibitive set against the economics of those businesses.

 

My suggestion is that if you do fancy one truly last Routemaster ride through the streets of central London then do it soon.  2019 may very well be their last year within the ULEZ area.  They are already prohibited from a few outer areas such as Putney High Street unless Euro6-compliant as these are effectively ULEZ trial areas based upon high emission levels partially caused by a concentration of buses.  

 

The first Routemasters were indeed to have been registered in the OLD-series following on from the RT class. It was felt that a brand new and in many ways radical design departure should not wear OLD marks so those assigned were voided in favour of SLT marks for the first five.  By the time production started they were up to VLT which accounted for RM6-300 then WLT took over.  The allocation of -LT marks to London Transport vehicles was, apparently, coincidental though the ability at that time to pre-book large blocks of registration marks meant that what 55 Broadway wanted they generally got.

Edited September 29, 2018 by Gwiwer

[RANGERS]

According to the Mayor, who ultimately wields the power in these matters, no exemptions will be permitted other than for those vehicles already covered by vintage car legislation on special occasions. 

 

It is possible to fit a Euro6 engine into the Routemaster as former TfL Surface Transport Director Sir Peter Hendy has done with his personal Routemaster.  That would meet ULEZ requirements.  But the cost of everyone who currently runs a single-figure number of old buses (not all of which are Routemasters) in London is probably prohibitive set against the economics of those businesses.

 

My suggestion is that if you do fancy one truly last Routemaster ride through the streets of central London then do it soon.  2019 may very well be their last year within the ULEZ area.  They are already prohibited from a few outer areas such as Putney High Street unless Euro6-compliant as these are effectively ULEZ trial areas based upon high emission levels partially caused by a concentration of buses.  

 

The first Routemasters were indeed to have been registered in the OLD-series following on from the RT class. It was felt that a brand new and in many ways radical design departure should not wear OLD marks so those assigned were voided in favour of SLT marks for the first five.  By the time production started they were up to VLT which accounted for RM6-300 then WLT took over.  The allocation of -LT marks to London Transport vehicles was, apparently, coincidental though the ability at that time to pre-book large blocks of registration marks meant that what 55 Broadway wanted they generally got.

Vehicles which qualify for the historic vehicle taxation class are exempt unless used for commercial purposes, meaning anything more than 40 years of age will be exempt. Buses used commercially wouldn’t therefore qualify for it but as with the LEZ, any vehicle registered up to 1973 is exempt which will allow RMs to continue running.

 

The reality of course is none of those still used regularly on the 15 have original engines, all have replacements of Euro III or IV emissions standards but as the exemption is based on the age of the vehicle, they will still qualify.

[Rugd1022]

A Lancia 'Esagamma', whatever one of those is...

 

 

 

[RThompson]

On the subject of overseas vehicles, I drove this one today on rail replacement from Shrewsbury to Hereford.

 

Built in 1992 as FC7535 305, Leyland Olympian chassis with a Cummins L10 engine and 4 speed gearbox, bodied by Alexander, Falkirk. It is a 100 seater with air conditioning and tinted windows.

 

Built for the China light and power company in Hong Kong, it was a staff commuter coach to and from the power station.

 

Imported back to the UK in 2009 for Kinch, then sold to Pulhams coaches until purchased by Regional Transport last week.

 

First day in service, still wearing Pulhams livery for now.

The wheels have been repainted into LT Indian red already,

 

The front destination glass is still in place behind the panel so will be revealed when it comes for respray and fit LT style destination blind box.

 

One of these was trialled in London back in 1992 with a view of operating a fleet of them with Capital Citybus, fleet number 331 so not too far off.

Roll on 2018 and a Chinese built BCI tri axle double decker bus is being trialled out in London to more or less the same specs!

 

[Rugd1022]

Another dash of Continental municipal chic, an Alfa Romeo 430 of 1942 vintage coachbuilt by Ambrosino…

 

[PhilJ W]

FYI tomorrow is open day at the Canvey bus museum. There is a free vintage bus service to the museum from South Benfleet station and to and from the rally field.

[RThompson]

I saw that very type of wheel hub on a mack lorry recently in Shropshire, quite a scary design in a way!

 

Another dash of Continental municipal chic, an Alfa Romeo 430 of 1942 vintage coachbuilt by Ambrosino…

 

ALFA BUS 1942 430.jpg

[runs as required]

Another dash of Continental municipal chic, an Alfa Romeo 430 of 1942 vintage coachbuilt by Ambrosino…

 

ALFA BUS 1942 430.jpg

I love those old continental 'streamline' buses. There were a lot still around in the 1950s early 1960s.

 

Later when I worked in Malta, talking to the old owner bus drivers there, I realised that if they were Iti football team supporters, they'd also rebodied their old Brit or Yank chassis with copies of those Italian bus bodies - only festooned with a whole lot more chrome.

Unlike full fronted/friont engine UK coaches e.g. BMMO SLR, that had a full width bulkhead, the driver sat in the saloon with the passengers Bedford OB style and they readily converted to OMO once the underage young conductors got sent off to school.

 

Old Lancia lorries and buses were all right hand drive so the driver sat on the edge of the precipice - better able to judge where the edge was .  Any body who has ridden around the Amalfi peninsula on the rear seat overhanging Positano  will appreciate the logic.

dh

 

Edit as a PS

Staying with a cousin at Leigh on Sea years ago,  IIRR  Benfleet (mentioned above by Phil) ran its own municipal buses alongside Westcliff on Sea red open toppers and blue Southend corpys - were Benfleet dark green wartime Austerities?

Edited October 15, 2018 by runs as required

[bingley hall]

FYI tomorrow is open day at the Canvey bus museum. There is a free vintage bus service to the museum from South Benfleet station and to and from the rally field.

 

The few pictures I've seen suggest the weather was a bit disappointing yesterday. I was lucky to be able to attend the event three years ago on 11 October 2015, when the sun did attempt to make an appearance and some nice shots were to be had.

 

[PatB]

I saw that very type of wheel hub on a mack lorry recently in Shropshire, quite a scary design in a way!

 

 

Still very common on trucks in Oz, although I don't think many (any?) new builds have got them. They never excited much comment when I was working in Vehicle Standards so I'd assume their safety record isn't significantly worse than "normal" arrangements.

[37114]

Still very common on trucks in Oz, although I don't think many (any?) new builds have got them. They never excited much comment when I was working in Vehicle Standards so I'd assume their safety record isn't significantly worse than "normal" arrangements.

A hauler friend of mine had a Fiat truck in the 70s fitted with that type of wheel (Trilex), he said that type of design was much less prone to wheel loss than the standard 10 stud design, very popular design in Italy and Switzerland.

[Rugd1022]

Oxford Street, 1935...

 

 

 

[davknigh]

Now that’s atmosphere! (koff, koff, wheeze!)

 

Cheers,

 

David

[John M Upton]

And given how awful and slow the traffic is in Oxford Street that bus has probably just about reached Bond Street by now...

[bingley hall]

To keep things moving along, here are a few shots taken at the Stockwell Garage open day, back on 21 June 2014.

 

Under the magnificent arched concrete roof at Stockwell garage in South London preserved Leyland double-decker RTL139 is taking a spell from giving short trips as part of the open day.

 

A bit like the old days - a nice line up of Routemasters - RM1063, RM349, RML898.

 

RTL139 heading down Lansdowne Way past the garage (out of sight to the right) while working a free tourist sightseeing circuit for punters.

 

 

[RThompson]

Ex China Light and Power Hong Kong Leyland Olympian 305 has changed a bit since the last photo was took around a month ago and been a busy bus/coach doing some serious mileage.

 

She has now regained her front destination box but has a flip dot destination box rather than the proposed LT style blinds.

 

This was decided in the end because the box was already removed from a vehicle, it's half right for the bus and it allows me to program whatever I need for no extra cost and at short notice.

 

When I think about it, my first ever bus I owned aged 21 was ex London Transport T1000 which was one of only 4 London double decker buses fitted with a electronic destination box but sadly the controller packed up so couldn't put any destinations up.

 

305 will go for respray in early 2019. It is intended to be in standard red and black but thinking maybe something different/special for this vehicle.

 

[Rugd1022]

Euston station, 1973...

 

 

 

[Dave47549]

.

Edited October 1, 2021 by Dave47549
Removed pointless guff

[108]

Euston station, 1973...

 

LMR EUSTON BUS 1973.jpg

Definitely 1980's.

[John M Upton]

The UB40 Album advert is a bit of a dead giveaway. 1982 I believe.