Unusual workings of the Midland Blue Pullman sets

[Matt37268]

7 minutes ago, adb968008 said:

That’s your your problem.

 

there was a picture sold on ebay with copyright a few years back, but it sold for good money.

I’m really not going to lose any sleep over a dud link that you’ve posted, you say that there’s a photo of it that was sold a few years ago which is fine, I’ll look forward to seeing it at some point in the future. 

 

[stovepipe]

For info - sixbellsjunction does not allow direct linking.

[Jeremy Cumberland]

On 15/09/2023 at 21:38, adb968008 said:

No ones mention the famous working of 28th Jan 1967 when a set ran into Bury Bolton Street when Bury FC were playing Walsall in the FA Cup. 1z55 / 1z56 were the codes.

https://www.sixbellsjunction.co.uk

The sixbellsjunction.co.uk page suggests Bury Knowsley Street. If you have evidence of its being Bolton Street, I am sure the people at Six Bells Junction would like to know of it. The match was at Bury, who won 2-0.

[adb968008]

2 hours ago, Jeremy Cumberland said:

The sixbellsjunction.co.uk page suggests Bury Knowsley Street. If you have evidence of its being Bolton Street, I am sure the people at Six Bells Junction would like to know of it. The match was at Bury, who won 2-0.

It may have been the ecs at Bolton St.
it was a long time ago I read the article about this working, maybe a decade, but there is an article about it. I seem to recall it was serviced in Longsight, not Bury.

 

The MP did reach Bury, theres more than enough people with knowledge of this working out there to support that.

 

but ive only ever seen the 1 picture taken in Bury Bolton st on ebay about 4 years ago, sold with copyright. I bid on it, and the bidding went quite well, it was on Platform 3, with a 504 on Platform 1. It was taken from the predecessor of what is todays “jubilee way” bridge, taken approx 10-20ft closer towards p4 than this image of another footex at Bolton street…

http://www.stuwilletts.plus.com/assets/images/1.163_Bolton_Street_Station_Mod_500.jpg

 

so someone somewhere will probably cash it in.

Sorry i cant provide 100% proof, but i’m adament it reached Bury, Ive spoken to far too many people who know it / saw it.

 

Edited September 17, 2023 by adb968008

[stovepipe]

On 16/07/2017 at 09:25, BMacdermott said:

Hello everyone

 

A photo on page 55 of David Percival's book King's Cross Lineside 1958-1984 shows a set at King's Cross on 16 October 1965. The caption says it was making a trial run from Leeds.

 

Brian

 

This working was a 6-car set.

[30851]

3 hours ago, adb968008 said:

It may have been the ecs at Bolton St.
it was a long time ago I read the article about this working, maybe a decade, but there is an article about it. I seem to recall it was serviced in Longsight, not Bury.

 

The MP did reach Bury, theres more than enough people with knowledge of this working out there to support that.

 

but ive only ever seen the 1 picture taken in Bury Bolton st on ebay about 4 years ago, sold with copyright. I bid on it, and the bidding went quite well, it was on Platform 3, with a 504 on Platform 1. It was taken from the predecessor of what is todays “jubilee way” bridge, taken approx 10-20ft closer towards p4 than this image of another footex at Bolton street…

http://www.stuwilletts.plus.com/assets/images/1.163_Bolton_Street_Station_Mod_500.jpg

 

so someone somewhere will probably cash it in.

Sorry i cant provide 100% proof, but i’m adament it reached Bury, Ive spoken to far too many people who know it / saw it.

 

Scenes from the Past: 33 Bury to Heywood and Rawntenstall has a photo of the BP in Bolton Street station. It is on platform 3 (train 1Z65) in the evening and is signaled to go towards Castleton.

 

Rob

[BachelorBoy]

I really love the Nanking blue.

 

[DavidB-AU]

Potters Bar tunnel, 16/10/1965 during testing between KX, Leeds and Hull.

 

 

[stewartingram]

I don't suppose we know the id of that one?

[hexagon789]

16 minutes ago, stewartingram said:

I don't suppose we know the id of that one?

Set with M60090/M60091

[stewartingram]

Wow! I never actually expected an answer to that! At least mine can now go into the 'ECML' collection, thanks.

[Mike_Walker]

Here's one of the Midland Pullmans passing Bletchley whilst working a special from Preston to Wembley on 2 May 1964 in connection with the FA Cup Final where Preston North End met and lost 2-3 to West Ham.

 

 

Also, Stovepipe's photos of West Hartlepool on the previous page would appear to be one of the Western sets; note the branding "Pullman" rather than "Midland Pullman" on the power car.

Edited September 18, 2023 by Mike_Walker

[hexagon789]

36 minutes ago, Mike_Walker said:

Here's one of the Midland Pullmans passing Bletchley whilst working a special from Preston to Wembley on 2 May 1964 in connection with the FA Cup Final where Preston North End met and lost 2-3 to West Ham.

 

 

Also, Stovepipe's photos of West Hartlepool on the previous page would appear to be one of the Western sets; note the branding "Pullman" rather than "Midland Pullman" on the power car.

I think is a WR set, the trailing vehicle looks to be a Motor Second rather than Motor First - three large windows rather than two plus a frosted lavatory one.

[Rugd1022]

1 hour ago, hexagon789 said:

I think is a WR set, the trailing vehicle looks to be a Motor Second rather than Motor First - three large windows rather than two plus a frosted lavatory one.

 

The leading power car is an LMR one though.

[hexagon789]

8 minutes ago, Rugd1022 said:

 

The leading power car is an LMR one though.

I don't think the leading one can be seen in Stovepipe's photos?

[Rugd1022]

10 minutes ago, hexagon789 said:

I don't think the leading one can be seen in Stovepipe's photos?

 

Sorry, I thought you were referring to Mike's Bletchley photo!

 

 

[Rugd1022]

On 13/07/2017 at 20:51, stovepipe said:

A WR set was used on a Coventry - Liverpool Lime Street football special on 5th March 1966, for an FA Cup 5th round match with Everton. I think the WR sets got more of the excursion work because there was a complete set spare each weekday, and to defend against criticisms of profligacy in the railway and popular press, BR were keen to find some additional use for the spare set at weekends.

 

I see Robert has a shot of it.

 

Blue-Pullman_Liverpool_LSt_5-3-66 by Robert Carroll, on Flickr

 

There are four photos of this 10966 working in Kevin Robertson ans Mike Smiths revised 'Blue Pullman Story' published in 2020, it's quite a hefty tome and well worth a look.

 

Also in the book are :

 

- Two photos of a WR set at Shrewsbury and on under the wires near Crewe on a special working from South Wales (probably Swansea or Cardiff) to Aintree on 27th March 1965.

 

- A photo of a WR set near Chelford, north of Crewe on a Walsall to Bury FA Cup match special on 28th January 1967.

 

 

- A David Percival shot of an LMR set crossing Welwyn Viaduct in December 1965 an an ECML test run.

 

- Three photos of an LMR set on the previously mentioned Leeds - Kings X trial run on Saturday 16th October 1965, one at Halifax, one at Knebworth and one at Kings X. It gives the consist as M60090, M60730, M60740, M60741, M60731 and M60091 running empty stock from Reddish to Leeds via Huddersfield, Mirfield, Low Moor and Laisterdyke : Leeds, depart platform 5 11.22, Doncaster 11.56 - 11.57, Kings X platform 7 arrival 14.08, depart platform 10 at Kings X 16.05, Doncaster 18.14.5 - 18.17.5, Leeds Central platform 5 arrival 18.54. A booklet with the timings was produced for the various worthies on board that day...

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

[kevinlms]

4 hours ago, hexagon789 said:

Set with M60090/M60091

But which end is what number!

[MartinRS]

On 08/09/2023 at 14:33, Holmesfeldian said:

this one …

Is this the Midland Pullman (as is mentioned in the article title) and if so when did they lose the Midland prefix to the train name on the cab-side?

[MartinRS]

On 09/09/2023 at 05:35, hexagon789 said:

The MML was 90mph until 1982

The MML , as existed when the six car set Midland Pullman was introduced went through  Monsal Dale and over Headstone Viaduct, as can be seen in this BFI film. The track didn't survive into the 1970s, never mind the 1980s.  You can see footage of the Midland Pullman in Upper Dale, running in both directions about 17 minutes into the footage. The inspector in the cab has a route list which can be seen 17 minutes into the the film and again 19minues 50 seconds in.

I never saw the Midland Pullman though I did see the WR 8 car set going through Swindon on a couple of occasions.

[hexagon789]

2 hours ago, Rugd1022 said:

 

Sorry, I thought you were referring to Mike's Bletchley photo!

 

 

Sorry about that, I see my reply was rather ambiguous. Apologies for any confusion.

[hexagon789]

6 minutes ago, MartinRS said:

The MML , as existed when the six car set Midland Pullman was introduced went through  Monsal Dale and over Headstone Viaduct, as can be seen in this BFI film. The track didn't survive into the 1970s, never mind the 1980s.  You can see footage of the Midland Pullman in Upper Dale, running in both directions about 17 minutes into the footage. The inspector in the cab has a route list which can be seen 17 minutes into the the film and again 19minues 50 seconds in.

I never saw the Midland Pullman though I did see the WR 8 car set going through Swindon on a couple of occasions.

Both the route of the Blue Pullman to/from Manchester Central and the route as currently used between St Pancras International and Derby, Nottingham and Sheffield were 90mph max back then.

 

The present MML had four sections of 100mph running authorised for the introduction of the InterCity 125s during 1982 and then went to 110mph in 1993 IIRC and finally 125mph in January 2013.

[hexagon789]

23 minutes ago, MartinRS said:

Is this the Midland Pullman (as is mentioned in the article title) and if so when did they lose the Midland prefix to the train name on the cab-side?

It's an ex-LMR set, so yes, as only those gained MU jumpers. I'd guess they lost the branding at or sooner after transfer to the Western Region

 

[Rugd1022]

27 minutes ago, MartinRS said:

Is this the Midland Pullman (as is mentioned in the article title) and if so when did they lose the Midland prefix to the train name on the cab-side?

 

Yes it's one of the ex-LMR six car sets, the 'Midland' part of the name was removed in late '66 / early '67 when the multiple working gear was fitted on the cab fronts.

Edited September 18, 2023 by Rugd1022

[hexagon789]

1 hour ago, kevinlms said:

But which end is what number!

Good question ;)