Imaginary Railways

[Flying Pig]

18 minutes ago, KeithMacdonald said:

Perhaps with dynamite to speed up the process? To clear the site of all those rough old stones littering the place and making it untidy. With the remnants used as infill for embankments.

 

Plenty of sarsen stones lying about on the Downs as well, to crush for ballast (irl they were for a long time crushed to make roadstone).

[john new]

2 hours ago, Flying Pig said:

 

I look forward to seeing how Wroughton Bank is engineered.  Perhaps a section of rack railway?

 

As to Avebury, the Victorians would surely approach right through West Kennet long barrow and build the junction station in the middle of the stone circle.  The Red Lion could live on as the station hotel and they might spare the church, but I doubt there'd be much left for the National Trust.

The Chief Civil Engineer was Swiss and they built England's earliest spiral. Alternatively a Zig Zag like the actual prototype at Skinningrove.

[Flying Pig]

8 minutes ago, john new said:

The Chief Civil Engineer was Swiss and they built England's earliest spiral. Alternatively a Zig Zag like the actual prototype at Skinningrove.

 

In reality, the M&SWJ managed to get up to Chiseldon so it likely would have been possible without copying the Albulabahn.  A route sidling up the scarp east of Broad Town, perhaps, which would have had the added advantage of trashing Bincknoll Castle along the way.  The route from there to Avebury is fairly level, taking in Windmill Hill for extra vandalism, and can easily be replanned through any additional antiquities that turn up.

[Flying Fox 34F]

5 hours ago, KeithMacdonald said:

 

Perhaps with dynamite to speed up the process? To clear the site of all those rough old stones littering the place and making it untidy. With the remnants used as infill for embankments.

 

I was pondering something very similar for the Imaginary North & South Wiltshire Railway (N&SWR, Swindon to Salisbury). For the part meandering down the Avon Valley, at some point going close to Woodhenge and Durrington Walls. Would the almighty GWR have put a track straight through the middle of a couple of the biggest Ancient Monuments in Britain? For now I'm assuming a N&SWR route on the east of the river. More to come on a North & South Wiltshire Railway in a separate thread. 🙂

 

If I recall an episode of Time Team, the mighty GWR, built a line through a Roman Villa!  When the railway was constructed, the Engineers recorded the Mosaic Floors, then built through.  So no qualms there.  Anyway, in this thread, it’s a War Effort Relief Line.

 

Paul

[rodent279]

3 minutes ago, Flying Fox 34F said:

If I recall an episode of Time Team, the mighty GWR, built a line through a Roman Villa!  When the railway was constructed, the Engineers recorded the Mosaic Floors, then built through.  So no qualms there.  Anyway, in this thread, it’s a War Effort Relief Line.

 

Paul

Somewhere on the GWML near Taplow I think. The blessed IKB was a vandal!

 

(Edit-maybe that's a pertinent point to bring up with English Heritage or whoever, when they next get protective about rebuilding one of IKB's bridges!)

Edited September 6, 2023 by rodent279

[KeithMacdonald]

On 05/09/2023 at 20:25, KeithMacdonald said:

There is one glaring loose end still to attend to. That is, how a "North & South Railway" line heading from south-west to north-east through Avebury will comfortably coexist with the Calne & Hungerford line heading from north-west to south-east through Avebury, If each follows the "best" and easiest route for their own individual cases, they would cross at right-angles. At the moment, X marks the spot. Both routes will need some kind of dog-leg, so they can share the same station in Avebury Trusloe without conflicting paths.

 

While researching this subject in the Wiltshire County Council Library in Chippenham, I found an archive with drawings of the North & South Wiltshire Railway (N&SWR). Here's a copy of the drawing and notes for an Avebury Junction Station.

 

Quote

After amicable negotiations with the trustees of the Calne & Hungerford scheme, a mutually-acceptable solution has been found to avoid the two lines crossing at 90 degrees to each other, with all the complications and potential conflicts that implied. The Calne & Hungerford line is shown in green. When built, the C&H will include an extra loop around the north of Windmill Hill. This will only add a few hundred yards to the length of their line. The cost of which is more than offset by the benefits (and savings) of sharing an existing N&SWR station in Avebury Trusloe. Space will be reserved on the Avebury Trusloe station site for bay platforms and exchange sidings.

 

 

Somebody has written more about the origins of the N&SWR and the planning before the construction. He's a bit long-winded but the diagrams and maps are fairly good.

 

 

[KeithMacdonald]

Press Release for the Calne & Hungerford Railway

 

It’s been suggested that we should keep the civilians as informed as possible (under the circumstances). Just to get the right story across and dispel any silly idle rumours. It’s not like we’re going to built a six-lane highway from London to Bristol!

 

Any suggestions of who the presenter could be? He’d have to be the “right sort” of chap, wouldn’t he? What’s that, Miles Cholmondley-Warner? Wasn’t he your junior fag? Jolly good, let’s get in touch and see what can be arranged.

 

Footnote: In 1940, Miles Cholmondley-Warner has just started his career as a documentary presenter.

 

 

[rodent279]

I'm sure there was an "Alternative Outcomes to the Grouping" thread somewhere, but a search hasn't thrown anything up, so continuing here from the Imaginary Locomotives thread seemed the best bet.

 

Could the Grouping have been arranged to create some more viable cross-London links? For example, combining the LNWR & LSWR via the already extant NLR routes via Richmond & Kenny O would seem a natural choice. Similarly the GW, Met & GE, maybe also taking in the District Railway, would create a prototype Crossrail 80 years earlier. Maybe the Midland & SECR could have been combined with the NER, to create a sort of CrossCountry with Thameslink bolted on?

Edited September 11, 2023 by rodent279

[Northmoor]

36 minutes ago, rodent279 said:

I'm sure there was an "Alternative Outcomes to the Grouping" thread somewhere, but a search hasn't thrown anything up, so continuing here from the Imaginary Locomotives thread seemed the best bet.

 

Could the Grouping have been arranged to create some more viable cross-London links? For example, combining the LNWR & LSWR via the already extant NLR routes via Richmond & Kenny O would seem a natural choice. Similarly the GW, Met & GE, maybe also taking in the District Railway, would create a prototype Crossrail 80 years earlier. Maybe the Midland & SECR could have been combined with the NER, to create a sort of CrossCountry with Thameslink bolted on?

There is a (thriving) "Imaginary Railways" thread.

[25kV]

Imaginary railways!  Mine started as long ago as ... 1981?  Something like that.  Me and a primary school friend both had collections of Matchbox push-along trains (mostly the diesel shunters, plus rakes of the Austrian-style 4-wheel carriages) that we would coat in Humbrol enamels, apply TOPS numbers to, and generally modify to the best of our 9-10 year old abilities.  We located our respective fleets on the reopened Chorley to Blackburn line, with my friend operating the southern section from Chorley to Brinscall/Withnell, and me operating the northern portion as far as the junction at Cherry Tree.  (We had our own magazine - I'm sure I still have a copy somewhere...)

 

Class 18 - I forget its number - named "Brush" at the head of an 11-car train somewhere near Skipton.  Convincing scenery, yeah?

Over time our ambitions grew - he decided to reopen the West Lancs line from Preston to Southport, while I opted to head east, linking Preston to Skipton via shared running on some BR tracks, then via the Padiham loop and then up the Colne branch, reopening to Skipton.  From there it was only a matter of time before I grabbed the Queensbury route from Keighley through to Bradford and Halifax!  He and I lost touch after primary school, but the idea of attempting to create an alternative railway network out of the closed bits of former BR tracks remained as an occasional mental pursuit.  Eventually I had a north-of-England network spanning from Liverpool to Hull mapped out, not only utilising closed BR tracks but withdrawn BR equipment too (for ease of modelling, if I ever got around to it), as well as some never-built ideas (such as the Super-Deltic, which I could imagine cobbling together from Lima Deltics and 50s...).

I never did model any of this network, even after it expanded across the country in my head (via routes like the S&C, GC, Waverley Route, Withered Arm, etc.), eventually reaching as far as Elgin and Banff in the north, Dover and Barnstaple in the other extremes.  Everything was electrified (electrics were my main interest) and again many loco designs were ex-BR or similar to those built for BR.  The history of the network morphed as time went on, and I even mapped out a new-build, parallel-ish very high speed route from London to Aberdeen for 250mph tilting trains (partly up the GC, long before HS2 was conceived of)!  However real life got in the way of even thinking about it - in particular some actual electric locomotives.  Oh and family and kids and stuff.  That too.

Nevertheless ... several decades later, it's just possible that the pile of Hornby Class 86 bodies currently lurking under the APT workbench may be destined for something very imaginary.  Something not too dissimilar to the illustration from fictitiousliveries.co.uk from many moons ago of a double freight loco from the fictional network.  😉

 

So maybe there will be an entry in the Fictional Locomotives thread at some point.

As for that very high-speed network, I might have to figure out 3D printing in order to get this insanity constructed.

[PhilJ W]

I have only discovered this thread. My layout 'Minerva Square' is based on a line that was actually started but then abandoned. The line in question was a northern extension of the East London line that would have eliminated the need for trains to and from the East London line having to reverse in Liverpool Street station. The plan was for a triangular junction with the western end just east of Shoreditch station. The northern junction would have been beneath the Liverpool Street lines at the up end of the Bethnal Green platforms. The third side of the triangle was actually built going from just north of Whitechapel on the East London line to a few yards beneath the viaduct of the Liverpool Street lines. The line was intended to join the GE at Cambridge Heath. My layout is based on the assumption that the line was extended a bit further north serving both a passenger station and goods yard, the passenger station becoming the northern LT terminus of the East London line with the GER and its successors operating the freight services. The actual bit that was started lasted until the East London line became part of the London Overground although the tracks were lifted. For most of its existence it was used as storage sidings.

[KeithMacdonald]

On 11/09/2023 at 15:10, 25kV said:

As for that very high-speed network, I might have to figure out 3D printing in order to get this insanity constructed.

 

Please excuse my ignorance, but what is that?

 

[25kV]

1 hour ago, KeithMacdonald said:

 

Please excuse my ignorance, but what is that?

 

 

It's a product of my fevered imagination - a 250mph 25kV Co-Co Class 35 power car built in 2004 or so.  😉

[Jeremy Cumberland]

1 hour ago, KeithMacdonald said:

 

Please excuse my ignorance, but what is that?

 

I don't think it would fit on your East Wiltshire line.

[KeithMacdonald]

1 hour ago, Jeremy Cumberland said:

I don't think it would fit on your East Wiltshire line.

 

Funny you should say that ... you wouldn't (by chance) be thinking of the new HS3 Railway that's going to be announced sometime soon? Exclusively here on RMWeb. Along with the Chunnel upgrades, it will provide a new route. Bristol / Swindon / Reading / West London / Peckham High Street / Paris in less than three hours. Bids will be invited from RMWeb inmates for the new IC400 rolling stock. @25kV's design might be entirely suitable.

 

Oh, keep this under your hats, but before we start the route planning .. we're anticipating much wrath from the HS2 diehards. So we might need to ask the Mods for a secret new section on RMWeb.

[Flying Pig]

2 hours ago, KeithMacdonald said:

 

Funny you should say that ... you wouldn't (by chance) be thinking of the new HS3 Railway that's going to be announced sometime soon? Exclusively here on RMWeb. Along with the Chunnel upgrades, it will provide a new route. Bristol / Swindon / Reading / West London / Peckham High Street / Paris in less than three hours. Bids will be invited from RMWeb inmates for the new IC400 rolling stock. @25kV's design might be entirely suitable.

 

Oh, keep this under your hats, but before we start the route planning .. we're anticipating much wrath from the HS2 diehards. So we might need to ask the Mods for a secret new section on RMWeb.

 

Dreadful idea - imagine all the French tourists in Swindon. It would ruin the place.

[rodent279]

5 hours ago, Flying Pig said:

 

Dreadful idea - imagine all the French tourists in Swindon. It would ruin the place.

I can't imagine any kind of tourist in Swindon,  let alone French ones!

[BachelorBoy]

1 minute ago, rodent279 said:

I can't imagine any kind of tourist in Swindon,  let alone French ones!

Not even GWR enthusiasts?

 

(or XTC fans)

[PhilJ W]

11 hours ago, KeithMacdonald said:

 

Funny you should say that ... you wouldn't (by chance) be thinking of the new HS3 Railway that's going to be announced sometime soon? Exclusively here on RMWeb. Along with the Chunnel upgrades, it will provide a new route. Bristol / Swindon / Reading / West London / Peckham High Street / Paris in less than three hours. Bids will be invited from RMWeb inmates for the new IC400 rolling stock. @25kV's design might be entirely suitable.

 

Oh, keep this under your hats, but before we start the route planning .. we're anticipating much wrath from the HS2 diehards. So we might need to ask the Mods for a secret new section on RMWeb.

It looks like a scam, the mention of Peckham High Street is the clue. If Del-boy is involved it's got to be a bit dodgy.

[2E Sub Shed]

4 hours ago, rodent279 said:

I can't imagine any kind of tourist in Swindon,  let alone French ones!

. In 2009 Disney World selected the Wiltshire town Swindon as its twin town. Swindon was in competition with 24 other British towns including Brighton and Blackpool.

The Disney executives made their choice not by visiting the town but by watching a promotional video that was put together by a town resident, made up of clever similarities between the town’s Magic Roundabout and Disney’s teacup ride, or its cinema and Disney’s Hollywood studios. “She made us laugh”, said Dave Coombs, a Disney World spokesman as he recognised the ingenious example of public relations that the town had created.

[KeithMacdonald]

8 hours ago, rodent279 said:

I can't imagine any kind of tourist in Swindon,  let alone French ones!

 

There are some, but often not intentionally. Some got lost after leaving Avebury.

 

8 hours ago, BachelorBoy said:

Not even GWR enthusiasts?

 

Some got lost before or after the Steam Museum or McArthur Glen / Great Western Designer Outlet.

 

Others got lost after any of the following:

1. visiting the Oasis Sports Centre - mistaking it for something to do with the Oasis band.
2. trying to navigate the Magic Roundabout.
3. trying to find Swindon Airport which, according to TripAdvisor, is somewhere near Cockleberry Sidings.
4. etc

Your mileage may vary.

[KeithMacdonald]

9 hours ago, PhilJ W said:

It looks like a scam, the mention of Peckham High Street is the clue. If Del-boy is involved it's got to be a bit dodgy.

 

I should explain, that was included at the insistence of Visit Britain, the UK tourist board, to encourage French visitors.

 

Mange tout, Rodney!

 

https://www.mylondon.news/whats-on/comedy-news/del-boy-hilarious-french-phrases-17087093

[KeithMacdonald]

On 13/10/2023 at 10:41, PhilJ W said:

It looks like a scam, the mention of Peckham High Street is the clue.

 

i've just been informed it will be the new Customs and Border Control point for all travellers to & from France. In addition, there will be a Passenger Help Desk with a dual-language team, managed by René Artois, and assisted by Customs Officer Crabtree.  Poppers please.

 

 

[DK123GWR]

On 13/10/2023 at 15:49, KeithMacdonald said:

visiting the Oasis Sports Centre - mistaking it for something to do with the Oasis band.

The band was named after it:

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Oasis_(band)#:~:text=Liam suggested that the band,in Swindon as a venue.

[sir douglas]

On 11/09/2023 at 13:13, rodent279 said:

I'm sure there was an "Alternative Outcomes to the grouping"

 

I recently found out that one of the original ideas was for the NER to remain mostly un touched as its own region much like the GW (how the GW managed to get away so un touched is a whole other story, mostly of nepotism) and the scotland would be its own region but the scottish companies wanted to merge with the english

Edited October 22, 2023 by sir douglas