Why Hornby has missed 30 Anniversary of Railfreight Sectorisation

[class37418stag]

Hello everyone

Bachmann has planned and made diesel locomotives with trainload sector and some wagons of Railfreight sectorisation

 

Hornby has missed new planning for diesel locomotives and wagons for 30 years of trainload sector of Railfreight sectorisation of class 08, 31, 56, 60

[MGR Hooper!]

Well IMHO since it isn't compulsory to do something I doubt it has been missed. Moreover it would have just meant slightly higher costs, more moaning and different packaging

[MGR Hooper!]

Bachmann are not doing any special "packaging" .To there credit Hornby are the masters of "Celebrating".Remember the A4 reunited collection .The final day of pre nationalization collection too.

 

I was referring to Hornby only Edited September 24, 2017 by MGR Hooper!

[adb968008]

I'm not sure there's that much they can offer ?

 

08, Choice of 31, Railroad 37, Railroad 47, 50149, 56, Railroad 58, 60, 87, Railroad 90 ?

 

Of that lot, 08s were mundane, 31's weren't the most awe inspiring ambassadors of this livery and even then not many variations (Distribution/Coal/Petroleum/Construction), 50149 is already done, class 60's didn't exist in 1987, 90's were brand new and Intercity.

 

Doing Railroad 37/47's is probably risky given how extensively this period was covered by Lima loco's that are still swilling about in the 2nd hand model railway ocean, not to mention the dozens of newer offerings by Bachmann, Heljan and ViTrains out there.

 

The locos at the October 1987 unveiling at Ripple Lane, and the models made in the same liveries have all been done and the toolings used in 1987 are still the same in 2017 for the 37/47/58 only the 08 and 56 are newer:

 

08834 Distribution - Bachmann

37673 Distribution - Bachmann

37892 Petroleum -  Lima

47079 Metals - Lima

56001 Construction - Dapol

58050 Coal - Hornby

 

The best they could offer is a mix of Railroad/Main range models which would be confusing and difficult to sell at best, massively criticised at worst.

Maybe another option would be the railfreight odd ball collection : 47901 RfA,  50149 RfGeneral, 58050 RfCoal, 87101 RfD

 

To me, the only way I could see this work, is for a retailer to have commissioned a collection of cross manufacturer models into a single set, but again I think this would be hard concept to sell.

Edited September 24, 2017 by adb968008

[pmorgan_cym]

I'm not sure there's that much they can offer ?

 

08, Choice of 31, Railroad 37, Railroad 47, 50149,60, Railroad 90 ?

 

Of that lot, 08s were mundane, 31's weren't the most awe inspiring ambassadors of this livery and even then not many variations (Distribution/Coal/Petroleum/Construction), 50149 is already done, class 60's didn't exist in 1987, 90's were brand new and Intercity.

 

Doing Railroad 37/47's is probably risky given how extensively this period was covered by Lima loco's that are still swilling about in the 2nd hand model railway ocean, not to mention the dozens of newer offerings by Bachmann, Heljan and ViTrains out there.

 

 

56?

[Legend]

They probably didn't think it was such a significant event. Hornby have a bit of a love hate relationship with "modern image" and seem much more at home with steam

[black and decker boy]

They have done a RF metals 37 this year, the abomination that is 37040.

[Spannerman]

The problem with some of Hornbys previous celebration packs is the celebration has passed before the models turn up!

 

Nik

[Ron Ron Ron]

.....Hornby have a bit of a love hate relationship with "modern image" .....

 

 

I thought this discussion is about the sectorisation period, not the "modern image" period.  (circa Douglas Home, Harold Wilson...) 

 

 

.

[Tim Hall]

The problem with some of Hornbys previous celebration packs is the celebration has passed before the models turn up!

 

Nik

Well they could start advertising for the 35th anniversary, and be reasonably optimistic of only just missing it

[YesTor]

I'm not sure there's that much they can offer ?

 

08, Choice of 31, Railroad 37, Railroad 47, 50149, 56, Railroad 58, 60, 87, Railroad 90 ?

 

Of that lot, 08s were mundane

 

08s mundane?!  That's a matter of opinion... and surely no more mundane than a 47 or 37?  Personally I thought they looked great in triple grey livery, and Hornby are yet to release the 08 in this version.

 

 

31's weren't the most awe inspiring ambassadors of this livery and even then not many variations (Distribution/Coal/Petroleum/Construction)

 

That's 4 sectors, out of a possible 5...  How many variations are you expecting?

 

 

 

 

class 60's didn't exist in 1987

 

No, however they did look great in triple grey, and Hornby still haven't produced versions in either Construction or Metals sector liveries.

 

They would have had plenty to go at.

[adb968008]

That's 4 sectors, out of a possible 5... How many variations are you expecting?

 

Six.

 

Aggregates (Construction)

Coal

Petroleum

Distribution

Metals

General

 

Your choice for general is limited (50149) but it was none the less one of the rounded design groups original proposed sector liveries, but wasn't adopted and (via initial drab grey), turned into Dutch livery instead, presumably because the tasty new livery was meant to be future looking and including your old knackers used for engineering stuff was counter to this plan, and separate to railfreights business.

 

RfD later evolved to represent European distribution, with the blue roof in addition.

 

However the 31 isn't what comes to most people's minds, when it comes to Railfreight, they were starting to be a little long in the tooth at this point, think of a 31, redstripe railfreight & Dutch wore much better.

 

33/37/47/56/58/60 were the champions of rail freight sectorisation liveries.

Edited September 25, 2017 by adb968008

[Pete the Elaner]

Your choice for general is limited (50149) but it was none the less one of the rounded design groups original proposed sector liveries, but wasn't adopted and (via initial drab grey), turned into Dutch livery instead.

 

Also 37673 & 86502 (1 side only), but neither of these are in Hornby's premium range.

I did not know this evolved into Dutch. I just assumed that all RF locos were in another one of the sectors.

[adb968008]

Also 37673 & 86502 (1 side only), but neither of these are in Hornby's premium range.

I did not know this evolved into Dutch. I just assumed that all RF locos were in another one of the sectors.

I forgot the 86/5's I remember Hornby released it, just after BR renumbered it 86602 but there were others to.. (503/4 come to mind). Later they went to distribution, so it'd suggest it was a mistake, as many ran unbranded for a while too.

 

I didn't know about 673 either, but I just turned up 37104 also. (I seem to have memory of an 08 too).

 

I'm not sure why General was selected for 149, I understood it's trials was for China clay,which seems to me the domain of Aggregates, yet always seem to have Distribution 37's on it. I can only guess it's a "we haven't done a loco in General yet" or "no sector wants to own 149" experiment, that failed anyway, 8/15/19's liveries were more for celebrity appeal. I did see 50's on engineers stuff towards the end (I have a picture of 50041 in Manchester Piccadilly on a civil engineers train above my layout), and have pictures of 50008/15 in Longsight depot one evening (got to cab them too), but I recall this being massively unusual, hence why I was where butter wouldn't normally get.

 

Either way, there wasn't many of them, I suspect General was too vague, and as a Railfreight was a profit centre, engineering stuff was a cost they wouldn't want (there was not yet a "railtrack" customer).

Edited September 25, 2017 by adb968008

[Clive Mortimore]

More import is all the manufacturers have missed 60 years since the introduction of the first mainline diesel under the modernisation plan.......but that is only modern image so that don't matter.

[Clive Mortimore]

Next year will be the biggie, 50 years since the end of steam.....off to pre order my Olly Cromwell and the two black fives what ever numbers they were........

[adb968008]

More import is all the manufacturers have missed 60 years since the introduction of the first mainline diesel under the modernisation plan.......but that is only modern image so that don't matter.

D8000 has been

1. done (Dublo, 1st anniversary),

2. done (wrenn),

3. done (30th anniversary Lima ltd Ed),

4. done ( 50th NRM Bachmann)

5. and still being done (NRM Bachmann gloss) again though.

 

And each time it's no different, maybe 20050 in Blue for a change ?, I remember seeing it in Doncaster Works just after it had been preserved, but before any work was done on it and recall being confused as to why a loco in working condition, for a fleet not being withdrawn was being preserved.. though I was also puzzled at 50011 withdrawn at Crewe a few years later, especially when considering 50041 being repaired at Doncaster just 2 years earlier, strange days and decisions back then, no one expect 50041 to come out alive, no one expect 50011 to go in alive).

Edited September 25, 2017 by adb968008

[The Stationmaster]

I thought this discussion is about the sectorisation period, not the "modern image" period.  (circa Douglas Home, Harold Wilson...) 

 

 

.

 

'Post steam'?

[hoovered]

 Talk about sectorisation to Hornby and they will think you mean the big four .[LNER, LMS,GWR,SOUTHERN ]

 

Look at what they did with D400 for the 50's birthday , 

Better off doing it yourself.If thats what you want.

[No Decorum]

'Post steam'?

That’s the way most of my steam locos are delivered.

[rob D2]

I agree with our departmental friend ADB968008,

 

Hornby don't look very interested in modern modelling at all. The 56 and even the 60 can be justified, but they hardly pump this stuff out anniversary or not.

 

If they had any interest in diesels they'd get some banger blue fully leaded 31s out- can't get em for love or money but maybe they are still counting the cost of the mazak debacle

[Pete the Elaner]

Hornby have rarely been keen to produce variations.

Going back, their BR Blue 86 was 86219 Phoenix for years. They never updated the running number.

Their dutch 31 was skinhead 31110. They never produced one with a headcode box & varied the running number.

Sound fitted LMS Duchess was 6232 Montrose. There were 4 others they could have also produced relatively easily. The tooling costs would surely have been recouped in extra sales.

Theit last 1946 black Princess was a Margate model. How long ago was that?

There were over 800 black 5's but you will struggle to find more than about 5 or 6 models with different running numbers other than those which have been re-numbers since they left the factory.

 

Hornby have never been ones for producing multiple liveries of the same model in the way that Lima used to & to a lesser extent Bachmann do now.

They tried a 'number it yourself' 86 back in the 80's or 90's but this did not sell, so maybe this has put them off long-term?

[adb968008]

There were over 800 black 5's but you will struggle to find more than about 5 or 6 models with different running numbers other than those which have been re-numbers since they left the factory.

 

Off memory, with gaps...

 

44666

44668

44694

44781

44871

44875

44908

44932

45010

45156

45157

45190

45293

45455

45458

45377

 

5000

5036

5055

5156

 

To be released :

 

45116

45274

 

That’s before the weathered ones, plus railroad and older ones., so that’s 22 to start with..admittedly that’s only 3% of the fleet and you can’t have enough black 5’s.

 

Though it would be nice to see some preserved ones, and more 1968 ones, even a cheeky preserved one, on the new tooling. 44806/932 looked nice in Green :-)

Edited October 3, 2017 by adb968008

[royaloak]

 though I was also puzzled at 50011 withdrawn at Crewe a few years later, especially when considering 50041 being repaired at Doncaster just 2 years earlier, strange days and decisions back then, no one expect 50041 to come out alive, no one expect 50011 to go in alive).

I think 50011 was withdrawn because the engine overhauls were transferred from Doncaster to Crewe and Crewe had no way of testing the engines, so 50011 was withdrawn to act as a test bed for the overhauled engines.