Mersey Gateway Crossing

[Scottish-Exile]

Went across the new crossing last week for the first time, as I had blagged myself on a visit of the new Alstom factory at Widnes. It's a stunning bridge and very distinctive styling. Must admit, I've got a bit of a thing for bridges, both road and rail.

 

Paid my toll online that night. There are options to buy a card up front to save some money, but to be honest, despite being on my doorstep I rarely had need to go across the old Runcorn crossing and this new bridge won't be any different. The few times I go to Liverpool I use the Queensway tunnel.

 

Anyway, as it's a railway forum, a few gratuitous photos from the Alstom visit

 

 

 

Edited November 4, 2017 by Scottish-Exile

[APOLLO]

On the banks of the Mersey, over on Cheshire side,
Lies Runcorn, that's best known to fame
By Transporter Bridge as tak's folks over its stream,
Or else brings 'em back across same.

In days afore Transporter Bridge were put up,
A Ferry Boat lay in the slip,
And old Ted the Boatman would row folks across
At tuppence per person per trip.

Now Runcorn lay over on one side of stream,
And Widnes on t'other side stood,
And as nobody wanted to go either place -
Well, the trade wasn't any too good.

One ev'ning, to Ted's superlative surprise,
Three customers came into view -
A Mister and Missus Ramsbottom it were,
And Albert, their little son, too.

'Ow much for the three?' Mister Ramsbottom asked,
As 'is 'and to 'is pocket did dip.
Ted said 'Same for three as it would be for one:
Per tuppence per person per trip.'

'Y'not charging tuppence for that little lad?'
Said Mother, her eyes flashing wild.
'Per tuppence per person per trip,' answered Ted,
'Per woman, per man, or per child.'

'Fivepence for three, that's the most that I'll pay,'
Said Father, 'Don't waste time in t'talk.'
'Per tuppence per person per trip,' answered Ted,
'And them as can't pay 'as to walk.'

'We can walk an' all,' said Father.
'Come, Mother, it's none so deep, t'weather's quite mild.'
So into the water the three of them stepped -
The father, the mother, the child.

The further they paddled the deeper it got,
But they wouldn't give in once t'begun;
In the spirit that's made Lancashire what it is,
They'd sooner be drownded than done.

Very soon the old people were up to their necks
And the little lad clean out of sight.
Said Father, 'Where's Albert?' and Mother replied,
'I've got 'old of 'is 'and, 'e's all right.'

'Twere just at that moment Pa got an idea,
And floundering back to old Ted,
'E said, 'We've walked that way -
Come, tak' us the rest for half-price, that's a penny a head.

But Ted wasn't standing for none o' that there,
And making an obstinate lip,
'Per tuppence per person per trip,' Ted replied,
'Per trip or per part of per trip.'

'All right then,' says Father,
'Let me tak' the boat and I'll pick up the others half-way,
I'll row them across and I'll bring the boat back
And thrupence in t'bargain I'll pay.'

'Twere money for nothing. Ted answered 'Right-o,'
And Father got 'old of the sculls.
With the sharp end o' boat t'wards middle of stream
'E were there in a couple of pulls.

'E got Mother out - it were rather a job -
With the water she weighed half a ton;
Then, pushing the oar down the side of the boat,
Started fishing around for his son.

When poor little Albert came up to the top
'Is collar was soggy and limp,
And with 'olding 'is breath at the bottom so long
'Is face were as red as a shrimp.

Pa took them across and 'e brought the boat back,
And 'e said to old Ted on the slip,
'Wilt row me across by myself?'
Ted said 'Aye! at per tuppence per person per trip.'

When they got t'other side Father laughed fit to bust,
'E'd got best of bargain, y'see,
'E'd worked it all out and 'e'd got 'is own way and
'E'd paid nobbut fivepence for three.

 

Brit15

[Hroth]

We  are  drifting  off topic  , there  was  a TV prog  about  tunnels some  months  ago,  the  Queensway Tunnel  was apparently  constructed  with  space  under  the  road  way  section  for  a  Tramway  which  was  never  built,  the  space  eventually  being  used  for  cables  pipelines   etc.

 

Re  the  Widnes  Toll system, what  about  those   motorists  who  dont  have  computers  and  are  not on line,  there  must  be  quite  a  few who fall into  that  cetegory

The back of the tunnel tickets, in the old, old, old days used to have a cross sectional diagram showing the trams running under the roadway.  However, that was only a suggestion in the early design phase.  As built, the roadway was lowered to allow taller vehicles to use the l/h lanes, thus reducing the space under the road deck. It was subsequently used for extra ventilation, and cross river utilities.

[APOLLO]

 

Brit15

[RANGERS]

The bottom line with Runcorn was the existing bridge was in need of significant upgrade work to stop it falling down, its the responsibility of Halton Borough who had to fund the work, shut it or replace it. The easiest option was to replace it and substantially reduce the traffic volume over the old bridge to reduce the amount of work to keep it upright. As Halton didn't have the funding, and as its residents only account for a small proportion (around 20% I think it is) of the traffic over the crossing, they were naturally reluctant to spend any money they didn't have on something they'd see minimal benefit of.

 

Solution: UK Govt underwrites the cash, Halton borrows the cash and pays it back over time, the users of the bridge pay their share so Halton residents don't have to subside the rest of the country. 

[Hroth]

 

Brit15

Yes, thats what I almost remembered - of course, that's the tunnel as built, with the lowered roadbed.

 

I'll have a look to see where I saw the tramway picture.

I've a feeling that I must have seen it in a book about the construction of the Queensway tunnel, its in my library somewhere....

[APOLLO]

I did 20 years on gas emergency standby duties in the Warrington / Widnes / Runcorn / Frodshan & Helsby area. I wish I had £2 for every journey across "The Bridge" that I have made over the years !!!! 

 

I remember back in the 70's it was a two lane bridge, and to make it 4 lanes extensive works was done to hang the foot ways on the outside of the arch. There was a high pressure welded steel gas main added as well. I don't recall them shutting the bridge during this work.

 

 

The new bridge has been long needed, and I suppose £2 isn't that bad - it's a long way round for "free" via Warrington !! 

 

Living in Wigan I don't need to "go over the water" these days, but next time I visit Hattons I'll make a journey across the new one, and go on to Cowards Butchers in Frodsham & stock up on there absolutely delicious steak pies - well worth the £2 surcharge !!!!!

 

https://www.hecoward.co.uk/news/bakery-sue-cowards-pies

 

Brit15

Edited November 5, 2017 by APOLLO

[Widnes Model Centre]

I did 20 years on gas emergency standby duties in the Warrington / Widnes / Runcorn / Frodshan & Helsby area. I wish I had £2 for every journey across "The Bridge" that I have made over the years !!!! 

 

I remember back in the 70's it was a two lane bridge, and to make it 4 lanes extensive works was done to hang the foot ways on the outside of the arch. There was a high pressure welded steel gas main added as well. I don't recall them shutting the bridge during this work.

 

 

The new bridge has been long needed, and I suppose £2 isn't that bad - it's a long way round for "free" via Warrington !! 

 

Living in Wigan I don't need to "go over the water" these days, but next time I visit Hattons I'll make a journey across the new one, and go on to Cowards Butchers in Frodsham & stock up on there absolutely delicious steak pies - well worth the £2 surcharge !!!!!

 

https://www.hecoward.co.uk/news/bakery-sue-cowards-pies

 

Brit15

 

You could even pop into Widnes town centre. Piles Butchers, 81 Widnes Road, WA8 6AZ, sausages to drive from Wigan for!

 

Just come over the bridge from North Wales, queues, just like nostalgia seem a thing of the past.

[APOLLO]

You could even pop into Widnes town centre. Piles Butchers, 81 Widnes Road, WA8 6AZ, sausages to drive from Wigan for!

 

Just come over the bridge from North Wales, queues, just like nostalgia seem a thing of the past.

 

Thanks - I've never heard of Piles butchers, most local butchers are good, I'll try them sometime (and visit your shop).

 

I called into a chip shop in Widnes when on standby one Saturday lunchtime many years ago. "Meat pie & chips please" I asked, the pie was duly taken from the cabinet and thrown in the fryer to warm up !!!!  "You've killed my pie - that's a cardinal sin in Wigan" I retorted - well the looks I got from staff & customers told me just to shut up, pay up and bu**er of quick - the grease dripping pie was ditched without funeral !!

 

Over in Runcorn (old town) was a pie / sandwich / cake shop named Organs - run by a seemingly 100 year old couple. You asked for a roast beef barm cake and you got one - about 6 slices of roast beef on a 9" diameter barm cake, beef hanging out the edges also  !!!!. I knew every cake shop, pie shop and chippy in South Lancashire / North Cheshire back in the 80's. When we were out on Standby in Winter we didn't get home for tea very often (sometimes not at all) - hence we lived of "junk" food !!!!

 

As to the bridge we had an all night job underneath one of the brick arches of the curved London Liverpool line brick arch viaduct (Widnes side) adjacent to the road bridge just before I retired. It's boggy land round there, and every time a train crossed the arches the ground vibrated - you could actually feel the brick arch very slightly moving - a bit un-nerving. But it's still there, carrying trains so perhaps it's not of concern.

 

Mucky place is (was) Widnes - but as they say in Yorkshire "Where there's muck there's brass" !!!!

 

Happy days (some of 'em).

 

Brit15

Edited November 5, 2017 by APOLLO

[Mike W3]

The next crossing point of the Mersey, going further inland is Bank Foot roundabout next to Warrington town centre - good luck with the traffic there! You can go through Stockton Heath and up the A50 and come out by the edge of Warrington town centre or go through Orford/Padgate. Then I'm afraid it's the Thelwall viaduct on the M6 or further along to the Warburton bridge, go much further and you'll be in Manchester, whichever way you go across the Mersey it's a pain during the day. One advantage of having moved to rural Northumberland is the lack of traffic issues, except perhaps occasionally on the A1.

 

thanks

Mike

[RANGERS]

Thanks - I've never heard of Piles butchers, most local butchers are good, I'll try them sometime (and visit your shop).

 

I called into a chip shop in Widnes when on standby one Saturday lunchtime many years ago. "Meat pie & chips please" I asked, the pie was duly taken from the cabinet and thrown in the fryer to warm up !!!!  "You've killed my pie - that's a cardinal sin in Wigan" I retorted - well the looks I got from staff & customers told me just to shut up, pay up and bu**er of quick - the grease dripping pie was ditched without funeral !!

 

Over in Runcorn (old town) was a pie / sandwich / cake shop named Organs - run by a seemingly 100 year old couple. You asked for a roast beef barm cake and you got one - about 6 slices of roast beef on a 9" diameter barm cake, beef hanging out the edges also  !!!!. I knew every cake shop, pie shop and chippy in South Lancashire / North Cheshire back in the 80's. When we were out on Standby in Winter we didn't get home for tea very often (sometimes not at all) - hence we lived of "junk" food !!!!

 

As to the bridge we had an all night job underneath one of the brick arches of the curved London Liverpool line brick arch viaduct (Widnes side) adjacent to the road bridge just before I retired. It's boggy land round there, and every time a train crossed the arches the ground vibrated - you could actually feel the brick arch very slightly moving - a bit un-nerving. But it's still there, carrying trains so perhaps it's not of concern.

 

Mucky place is (was) Widnes - but as they say in Yorkshire "Where there's muck there's brass" !!!!

 

Happy days (some of 'em).

 

Brit15

 

The fried pie trick is (or at least was) common practice in Scotland with scotch pies, it crisped up the pie crust wonderfully!

[Widnes Model Centre]

Thanks - I've never heard of Piles butchers, most local butchers are good, I'll try them sometime (and visit your shop).

 

As to the bridge we had an all night job underneath one of the brick arches of the curved London Liverpool line brick arch viaduct (Widnes side) adjacent to the road bridge just before I retired. It's boggy land round there, and every time a train crossed the arches the ground vibrated - you could actually feel the brick arch very slightly moving - a bit un-nerving. But it's still there, carrying trains so perhaps it's not of concern.

 

Mucky place is (was) Widnes - but as they say in Yorkshire "Where there's muck there's brass" !!!!

 

Happy days (some of 'em).

 

Brit15

 

Widnes has changed a great deal in the past 15 years or so. As a child my father used to tell us to stop breathing as we drove over the bridge. The smell was awful, not any more thankfully. We moved here in 2004 and I have to say, we love the area.

 

Pies in the fryer, not for me either!

 

The arches on the viaduct,all 59 of them, but did did you see the "spiral arch"? There is only one and I was led to believe it is fairly unique. Local myth is that it is the only one of its type. I was taking photo's of it some years ago and a bus load of students from the Far East disembarked. Eavesdropping as you do.....  Spokesman was explaining to the engineering students how the weight of the viaduct was supported by using this piece of engineering. I would be interested if any forum member can shed any further light on the spiral arch.

[APOLLO]

Never heard of the spiral arch - a new one on me, probably a skew brick arch.

 

Yes Widnes has changed from the early 70's when I first worked there, and is indeed a lot cleaner. ICI has all but gone, as have most of the heavy engineering, foundries and chemical works. It was a a fascinating area both industry and railway wise also back then.

 

 

And of course this - though this was at Widnes North station on the Liverpool Warrington Manchester line not shown on the plan.

 

 

I never remember it THIS bad though !!

 

 

And yes, Wigan was just as bad back then !!

 

Brit15

[Steamport Southport]

The joke around here was they've got the Golden Wonder crisp factory to hide the smell of the locals.

 

 

 

 

 

Jason

[APOLLO]

I remember the Golden wonder crisp factory. The govenor fitters "serviced" the gas supply governors there monthly (instead of yearly) "to ensure security of supply" - real reason was to ensure the supply of free crisps they got !!!!.

 

Is it still there ?  Is anything still there ?

 

Brit15

[Steamport Southport]

I think it closed in the late 1990s. 

 

I grew up in Halewood which is within sniffing distance. You could always tell what flavour they were making by the smell. One day it's be Cheese and Onion, the next day Smokey Bacon. It either made you sick or hungry.

 

 

 

 

Jason