Judging at Shows

[ianblenk]

Neil,

 

while "railway modelling" may not be a competitive hobby, people often are. 

 

 I agree with Paul, positive comments are what make's it worthwhile. When "awards" are involved, there will be more disappointed layout owners/operators than satisfied ones. I also don't bother with a display of "Look where we have been" plaques. 

 

Public voting will be subjective and therefore biased, so is best avoided. Other's have commented on the benefits or otherwise of having expert judges.

 

However, if you want to win "Best Layout" then I have noticed there are some things that appear to be of help.

• Get the layout in one of the major magazines before the show. 
• Have all you club members vote.
• If the layout has a geographic location, show it at exhibitions in that area.

If you can combine all three, then you'll definitely be on a winner. It may also help to have a layout "thread" on RMweb.

 

Jol

 

Don't forget to cover it in snow!

[Andy Hayter]

Like others the OH and I have never been interested in winning an award when exhibiting, although truth be told it is good for the ego and a support for your skills.

 

Two examples we have experienced perhaps shows the benefits and dangers of awards.

 

Case 1.

 

On setting up the layout on Friday evening at a show, club member sees a very nice rake of scratch/kit wagons that fit the area and period of the layout and purchases said rake from trader.  these are tested, run well and are used during the exhibition.  On Sunday afternoon said rake wins best rolling stock rake at the exhibition.  Feel free to discuss the ethics - but perhaps in a separate thread.

 

Case 2

 

At another exhibition Best Layout in Show was awarded to a layout that was in pure modelling terms good but surpassed by a number of other layouts.  But this layout had been built, pretty much alone, by a 15 year old and showed real signs of talent to come.  I hope that the encouragement received from that award did push this lad onward.  OH's layout was voted second and we were very proud of that and in no way felt aggrieved by the first place.

 

Awards are fine but for us they are not a driving force.  Nice to get but never sought.

Edited November 6, 2017 by Andy Hayter

[Captain Kernow]

while "railway modelling" may not be a competitive hobby, people often are

That may well be, Jol, but I agree with Neil. There's no need to 'institutionalise' said competitiveness in the hobby.

 

There's plenty of other stuff in Life for those who feel the need to compete with their fellow man.

[Jol Wilkinson]

That may well be, Jol, but I agree with Neil. There's no need to 'institutionalise' said competitiveness in the hobby.

There's plenty of other stuff in Life for those who feel the need to compete with their fellow man.

CK,

 

I think that you misread my post, so you will not be awarded any cake.

 

Jol

[Captain Kernow]

CK,

I think that you misread my post, so you will not be awarded any cake.

Jol

Oh, that's a shame. I was just thinking of your very first sentence, that's all. I completely agree with the rest of what you said.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

Could I be allowed just half a slice in that case, please, before the men in white coats come back?

[Captain Kernow]

And in any case, shouldn't this thread perhaps belong elsewhere, such as Miscellany etc.?

[newbryford]

Neil,

 

while "railway modelling" may not be a competitive hobby, people often are. 

 

 

 

My trainset is bigger than your trainset.............

 

 

Cheers,

Mick

[Bedders]

I'm unlikely to win a modelling competition unless Butlins bring back 'Knobbly Knees'

[Jol Wilkinson]

Could I be allowed just half a slice in that case, please, before the men in white coats come back?

 

I'm afraid we are out of cake at the moment. Following a piece in last Friday's local paper about Suffolk sausages I am putting all my efforts into investigating those that won awards at the Great Framlingham Sausage Festival.

[NittenDormer]

I'm divided on this. There is definitely an element within me that seeks recognition for my efforts / results. So, in a running race, I primarily race against myself, with the aim of doing the best possible time etc. Other runners are allies rather than rivals. If I do well enough to 'podium', that is a bonus, but it IS nice. And if you choose your races carefully...

With modelling, there is the same urge to do as well as possible, and there would be pride at winning a trophy. But expectation? No. By all means have trophies and categories etc. I don't expect to win one anytime soon. It is not really a competitive-suitable activity. At this point, I should add that I can no longer remember what point I am making.

[big jim]

[PaulRhB]

Nothing wrong with competition in sport but does it really improve things in modelling or risk putting people off thinking only the very top level is worth exhibiting?

The challenges of realisim seem to do fine at creating stunning levels of modelling and they can be seen alongside all others plus the operation side of the hobby, vintage tinplate and Thomas. You'd end up with numerous classes to be fair like all the distance classifications and need the whole club figuring out the scoring rather than running the show and having fun. Take a Continental trophy because otherwise many dismiss it as of no interest to them yet even then many would vote for the pretty Swiss trains they know from holiday rather than the ugly black German engines I think that's a safe comparison as I have exhibited both

No the current levels are fine, a bit of fun if the club want to do it but definitely not an essential part of the show.

Personally a platter of cakes as the prize would be far more pleasing

[Les1952]

With my layouts I've won four awards at shows so far- two of them exceptionally surprising as Furtwangen Ost is a 5 foot long continental layout. It is a given that 5-foot layouts don't win awards because a lot of people walk past without noticing. Likewise Continental layouts are often walked straight past. The other two were for Hawthorn Dene, a bit bigger and UK outline.

 

It is very flattering to get an award at a show, but there is no point in going out looking for one. What is nice is that it confirms that someone else thinks you've done something right.

 

The other useful thing is that on the layout flier you can add "Awarded best layout at Smudgewick in the Damp show, 2016" or whatever, alongside "As featured in Raiway Toddler Magazine, Octember 2015" or something not entirely dissimilar. These MIGHT just influence a show committee into going along with the show manager's recommendation to invite you to their next show.

 

As to how the things are awarded- from the viewpoint of an exhibitor- who cares? The surprise, if it comes, is appreciated no matter how the decision is made.

 

From the viewpoint of being show manager for a medium-sized show. We reintroduced a "Best in Show" trophy last year in memory of club member Trevor Webster. The panel of three was one club member plus the wife of a second member and Trevor's widow Gill. They picked a worthy winner using quite sound criteria. I'm more than happy not to be on the judging panel. However, next year we have a problem as two layouts in the 2018 show were built by Trevor, which will have to be ineligible if Gill is to be a judge again. I'm thinking of adding in a "favourite layout" award voted by punters as a one-year award. However, I think we'll hand out voting slips separately to show guides....

 

Just one other point. Two of the four pots have been "yours to keep" and the other two "can we have it back by next year". The latter isn't always as easy to arrange as it might seem. It needs to be back BEFORE next year's show, which means either a separate trip or the tender mercies of the postal/courier system.

 

Les

Edited November 6, 2017 by Les1952

[Chris M]

There should be an award for loudest layout. I know I would win that.

 

I wonder why some fellow exhibitors don't like to be in the same room as me? And why do I sometimes get some less than supportive comments?

[298]

There should be an award for loudest layout. I know I would win that.

 

I wonder why some fellow exhibitors don't like to be in the same room as me? And why do I sometimes get some less than supportive comments?

Is your layout vintage Tinplate then...?

[PaulRhB]

No Chris' is G scale, mind you with certain members of the G scale mob it's the operator that's loudest

[HillsideDepot]

As many others have already said, I don't consider judging and the award of trophies part of why I exhibit my layouts. Indeed to say "Look at it from the viewpoint of a club that, for example, is showing an award-winning 2mm layout and has maybe spent several hours on the road over a long weekend.  Their expectations are probably high.  Consequently, if there is no award process at all, or if the judging panel is comprised of three members who think large scale scratchbuilt models trump N-gauge layouts, no matter how pretty, there is bound to be dissatisfaction, if not a sense of grievance, to say the least." is completely at odds with my motivations to exhibit. But each to their own.

 

I fully accept that I don't do many exhibitions now, but I have done more in the past, with my own efforts, with a friend's layout and, some years ago now, with various club layouts, and the enjoyment for me comes from running a railway, hopefully correctly, with like minded people. Sharing that experience with the public, and having the sorts of conversations which encourage. That encouragement works both ways, explaining how something was done/made/created to a visitor and opening up new possibilities for them is perhaps the obvious way, but someone coming up to the layout and saying "ah I see you've got a model of X. I remember that, etc, etc" and adding some gem of information that ones own researches have failed to uncover is perhaps less obvious. Both, to me, are more rewarding than a prize (not that my work would ever be likely to make the grade).

I expect all of us who have exhibited will have had the person who keeps returning, probably says nothing, but clearly enjoys what they see. I had a lad, probably 12 or 13 who kept coming back to watch Drews Sidings at Larkrail. Having tried to make conversation with him a few times, eventually, with a bit of encouragement from "dad" he did ask a few questions, and seemed to go away inspired to have a go himself. And at a show like Larkrail my little OO RTR plank is well below the standard set by others. But I have no sense of grievance, there is no dissatisfaction on my part, in fact quite the opposite; I'd rather have the warm glow inside that comes from encouraging someone to have a go than a whole cabinet full of trophies.

 

All of which maybe makes it odd that I actually entered a layout building competition, years ago. But DEMU's Minories competition came along at just the right time for me, had a set of rules which I felt fitted my space/ability/style and was just the spur I wanted to do something. There was no way I was going to win, but I'll admit the opportunity to exhibit the result at Showcase was a "prize" in itself. I didn't win, of course I didn't, I may well have come last (only first place was announced) but I enjoyed the build, enjoyed the show, and from reaction on the weekend (and since) people seem to like the layout. That's more than enough for me!  

 

Turning it round, I don't vote for layouts if a show is holding a public vote. I like what I like, why should that coincide with what others think? And what if I really like the rolling stock on one layout, but the scenery is RTP, but on another layout the beautiful scenery has a right mish-mash of eras and regions running past it? Or do I vote for the huge layout which has everything straight out of the box, with no scenery, but is running to a full Working Time Table, has specific loco diagrams, coaching stock circuits etc and all overseen by a version of TOPS?

 

Advertising a layout as "Award Winning" doesn't attract me, it might mean that its been on the circuit for years and won something obscure in the dim and distant past. And the new layout, exhibited for the first time, might be a whole lot better, but as a newcomer can't (yet) be an award winner - and might never be given its not an important part of the hobby. Where a "best in show" is perhaps relevant is as "market research" for the organisers. Is that well known layout from 200 miles away with a large team of operators worth the expenses which such a layout requests? Or are a few smaller, local layouts just as popular? Even then the supplementary questions on the voting form, the ones about "where did you find out about the show?" "how easy was it to find the venue?" might actually be the important ones, not "which was the best layout?" 

 

I do however agree with Tryo's penultimate statement, "The prospect of winning recognition at shows is a powerful motivator for modellers.", but for me recognition comes in many forms, it can be that a fellow modeller is willing to give up his time to "play with my train set", it comes from comments from the audience (even if that "comment" is in the form of a deep, silent, study of the layout), it can come from "likes" on here and it most certainly comes from railwaymen who approve of what they see and are willing to share their knowledge so that I can improve my representation of their industry.

 

But we are all different. And thankfully so. If we all liked the same thing then taken to extremes a show would be of 20 identical layouts, each of which had found the "winning formula".  

[Giz Puk]

Having taken a few minutes to read this thread, it has now thaken exceedingly longer to contemplate the points raised in many of the posts.

First can I say that I have never exhibited a layout, but have a great admiration for those who are brave enough to do so particularly those attending shows which contain those big name layouts as headliners.

For me there are elements of this hobby that compare to the Hot Rod and Custom Car scene that I was part of back in the eighties.... in those days shows were won by individuals who had paid for companies to build their cars for them, wire them, fit custom interiors and spray jobs to the highest standards and to which their only involvment was simply to sign the check book. ( At one show the winner arrived within a custom built covered trailer, the ' winner ' was rolled out for the judging of the 'show and Shine', photographed with the best of show trophy which was taller than a small child then pushed back into the trailer for the road trip home.......... later having been asked why the big block blown V8 wasn't heard running, the owner admitted that the immaculately detailed engine was really a dummy with no interior components. In reality the 'Winner' was...... a 'Loser'!!!!!!!!!!

What has this to do with railways you may ask........  well luckily we still have the courtesy to rate our offerings not on how much the layout cost but on its more personal merits.

Anyone with money could get their boards custom built, professional wired and detailed, stock professionally weathered, sound and lights fitted, and with operators wearing matching uniforms and corporate image would certainly be in the running for best of show and another trophy to add to the accompanying display cabinet. Now don't get me wrong...... this is a brilliant showpiece for our hobby but not one I feel should detract people who can never achieve this from entering into the hobby for fear of their efforts being perceived as inferior in some way.

 

For me, I rate a layout initially on the operators, if they appear approachable, friendly and willing to share their skills and advice with others of all standards, I will spend longer with them even if their layout is asthetically less pleasing than the afore mentioned layouts. I particularly liked the idea of the recognition of a layout for attracting viewers to start or return to the hobby, as in my case, it was a non descript layout, the name of which I can't even remember but obviously hit a chord. To my mind it doesn't matter what scale, era or region we model, to me its about the passion and interest in railways shown by the operators and their ability to inspire others and make them feel that they have got value for money by supporting the clubs, exhibitors and traders through their entry fee.

I personally don't like the idea of big trophy 'shields' you keep for a year then hand back as I would prefer to recieve one of those 'cheap' trophies or better still a hand made trophy, as made by the 8 yr old visitor in a previous comment above. To me these are more worthy of receiving than any gold plated 'Layout of the Century' accolation.

As you can guess I will never consider my efforts to be of the standard to win awards should I ever exhibit a layout, but surely hearing someone who is not an expert say ' Oh..... I like that bit ' is surely recognition enough especially if you then discover that seeing your work inspired them to go on to build something... even if it is only a thomas starter set with a shoebox for a tunnel and a pile of books covered in a green cloth for scenery.

From small acorns mighty oaks grow, likewise if you rubbish someones efforts they may never achieve their dreams.

 

Apologies for going slightly off topic and rambling on, but basically if you are in this game to collect trophies, please display this fact in big letters above your layout so that those of us who think we know the real value of exhibits can concentrate on those layouts that we feel represent our hobby best. Surely apart from the exhibition plate as a keepsake the best award must be conveyed through word of mouth and the expressions and attention of those attending.

Also don't forget the tea and cakes when recognising contributions to our shows, as in honesty we all spend longer drooling over the victoria sponge than that show winning layout.

So well done to all those 'Tea Ladies' and Gentlemen providing refreshments as you deserve a trophy every time.

Yours Aye,

Giz

[Chris M]

Is your layout vintage Tinplate then...?

 

Its my N gauge layout that's loud. The thunderstorm sound rattles round even quite large exhibition halls very well. From now on I've toned down the train/cow/sheep/tractor sounds; I'm going to use a smaller speaker for these giving me better control of volume and leaving the large speaker for just the thunder.

 

I discovered my sound was effective when I was at the Swindon museum exhibition in the hall next to the main line. When I played my sounds (which was only occasionally) a number of people looked outside to see what train was going past.

 

I do take my model railways seriously. The trains I run are all very much correct for era and location. All of my stock is gently weathered rather than straight out of the box to give the right look.   I also try to entertain the paying visitors, especially the younger ones by having a few fun features and having plenty of trains running. This is more important to me than winning awards. 

[Chris M]

No Chris' is G scale, mind you with certain members of the G scale mob it's the operator that's loudest

 

Perhaps surprisingly my noisiest layout is N not G. 

Edited November 7, 2017 by Chris M

[Nearholmer]

I’m not convinced that trophies are a ‘major motivator’, but they probably are a nice bit of icing on the cake.

 

Personally, I think two types ‘ring true’:

 

- popular vote by visitors, which tends to reward ‘entertainment value’, as perceived by whoever is being entertained; and,

 

- peer vote, where each layout owner gets to vote between all the other layouts, which is more likely to reward ‘craft’.

 

The NMRA issues ‘achievement awards’, up to and including Master (sexist?) Model Railroader, which is an interesting, if possibly ‘not very British’, way of encouraging skill-progression.

[The Stationmaster]

I think one thing which has been missed so far in this thread is the value to the organisers of the show of 'awarding something'.   Don't overlook the fact that for many shows it is a bit of extra, or possibly the only wider publicity they might get for their show and while it will inevitably be a year to the next one it can help create public interest.  and when it comes to 'public' that doesn't just mean those who model railways or read the mags or RMweb because of the story is picked up by the local 'paper that can create wider local interest; it's free publicity for the club.

[298]

 

The NMRA issues ‘achievement awards’, up to and including Master (sexist?) Model Railroader, which is an interesting, if possibly ‘not very British’, way of encouraging skill-progression.

 

Issues..? They don't just hand them out, you have to meet certain criteria in a number of categories and submit a shed load of paperwork for cross-assessment before gaining each stage. A significant number of exhibitors would probably be quite a way there to gaining a MMR (and I've never thought of it as being gender specific) through exhibiting a better exhibition layout, providing it is at least 32 square feet in size....

 

Like most of the specific trophies at some exhibitions, the best examples often aren't entered because the builder just isn't motivated or feels the need to gain such recognition.

[Chris M]

32sq ft !!! My two exhibition layouts together only come to 31.75 sq ft.

 

I have often wondered whether the model railway fraternity should have some sort of award or certificate scheme to recognise when people have got to a certain level. I have no idea who would run it or how it would be organised but the principle of recognising achievements might be a good one. At a base level, anyone achieving a working, scenic layout regardless of quality deserves some sort of merit - a sort of white belt. Then progression though various stages to a sort of ninja master. This might encourage youngsters to get involved and might be also be good to encourage us oldies to try harder.

 

Apologies for going off piste a bit.

[298]

Surely one "Merit" is in being invited to exhibit at other shows? Or better still, having a future unfinished layout accepted on the basis of the builders reputation?