Is sound a)essential b) nice to have or c) neither

[ROSSPOP]

One should`nt judge todays quality sound decoders and sound files on DCC sound affectionados at exhibitions who hav`nt the foggiest on how a steam loco operates in reality. Also, many have little experience in how to adjust decoder CV`s to fine tune or match the sound to the movement of the loco drivers or reduce the volume

 

There is nothing more satisfying than building / painting a kit of your choice and bringing it `to life` with quality DCC sound files.... but like everything else in railway modelling , you have to do your homework...... this is where the internet (forums) and Youtube are such innovative creations.........

 

Sound is particularly effective in O gauge ( bigger speakers ) but 00/H0 decoders mainly......

 

...of course being O gauge the wheel flange squeals are real....

 

[Mike Storey]

One should`nt judge todays quality sound decoders and sound files on DCC sound affectionados at exhibitions who hav`nt the foggiest on how a steam loco operates in reality. Also, many have little experience in how to adjust decoder CV`s to fine tune or match the sound to the movement of the loco drivers or reduce the volume

 

There is nothing more satisfying than building / painting a kit of your choice and bringing it `to life` with quality DCC sound files.... but like everything else in railway modelling , you have to do your homework...... this is where the internet (forums) and Youtube are such innovative creations.........

 

Sound is particularly effective in O gauge ( bigger speakers ) but 00/H0 decoders mainly......

 

...of course being O gauge the wheel flange squeals are real....

 

 

Outstanding!!

[RJS1977]

"Where Seagulls Dare" has operator-controlled sound effects emanating from the laptop which sits under the layout and provides the animated backscene (which also provides a couple of sound effects of its own).

 

The user-controlled effects are:

 

* Safety valve lifting

* Coal shovelling

* Diesel horn

* Steam whistle

* Guard closing doors, walking down the platform, blowing his whistle

* Seagulls

* Roger Moore calling out 'All Change! End of the Line!'

 

Though at exhibitions these sounds get little comment - I suspect probably because I set them at a level I think won't annoy neighbouring operators, before the show opens, and when people start arriving, they drown the sound out! That said, at one show the trader next to me said he was surprised to hear seagulls so far inland....

[Mike Storey]

"Where Seagulls Dare" has operator-controlled sound effects emanating from the laptop which sits under the layout and provides the animated backscene (which also provides a couple of sound effects of its own).

 

The user-controlled effects are:

 

* Safety valve lifting

* Coal shovelling

* Diesel horn

* Steam whistle

* Guard closing doors, walking down the platform, blowing his whistle

* Seagulls

* Roger Moore calling out 'All Change! End of the Line!'

 

Though at exhibitions these sounds get little comment - I suspect probably because I set them at a level I think won't annoy neighbouring operators, before the show opens, and when people start arriving, they drown the sound out! That said, at one show the trader next to me said he was surprised to hear seagulls so far inland....

 

Quite right. It is a little known fact that Mr Moore, when he lived at Herne Bay, used to work (when "resting") as a leading railman at Margate. We had to sack him the end because he just couldn't stop parking his Volvo in the S&T parking space - he thought it was for him.

[jjb1970]

If people like sound them that is fine, to each his own. I just don't find it convincing, sound doesn't scale well and most models are way, way too loud. And there are sound effects that aren't replicated, I'm thinking primarily of the Doppler effect. I don't find the sound quality particularly impressive either, particularly lower frequencies. However, these are just my opinions.

[RJS1977]

Quite right. It is a little known fact that Mr Moore, when he lived at Herne Bay, used to work (when "resting") as a leading railman at Margate. We had to sack him the end because he just couldn't stop parking his Volvo in the S&T parking space - he thought it was for him.

 

In my case, the sound effect is for the "Roger Moore Memorial Railbus" - inspired by this:

 

[jonny777]

If you didn't understand what I meant by my Kings Cross reference, here is an example - 

 

 

kings cross second.mp3

 

 

 

Well feel free to use that clip if you need it. Just credit me where necessary. 

 

You could use the next clip, if you like - but unfortunately it includes the worst kind of platform end railway enthusiast (where are you now ?) who reaches climax with every Deltic acceleration. 

 

 

kings cross third.mp3

[Martino]

I run 16mm/ft, narrow gauge (45mm) outside in the garden. I guess I benefit from larger speakers and being a distance from the track - working on the 10ft rule.

 

The sound works well in that environment providing it’s not too loud.

 

Naturally stock makes its own clickerty clack noises and rumbling on the track, so that helps.

 

I can’t be done with artificial smoke. It just doesn’t look right to me.

 

However the sound is just an addition to what is going on in my imagination. Smoke, clash of buffers, people etc., are all added in my head.

 

I’ve seen exhibition layouts in HO here in the US and sound doesn’t do it for me then. Too noisy. Perhaps there’s a scale distance/volume calculation that we’re missing. It does work in the garden (for me) but again there’s the distance thing.....

[LBRJ]

The first time I heard DCC sound was most likely in a LMS about 15 years ago, and it was a Bachmann Class 47 they had sat on the counter - I was impressed.

I still am impressed by the ability to sound just  like a Locomotive (or unit) doing its thing

But as to the sounds of a Railway, it does nothing for me

 

I have been there, on stations or in yards at half past far too early, when the only sound you can (or should) hear is the engines starting up etc; but there is still some ambient sound even if it is far in the background.

[Mike Storey]

I run 16mm/ft, narrow gauge (45mm) outside in the garden. I guess I benefit from larger speakers and being a distance from the track - working on the 10ft rule.

 

The sound works well in that environment providing it’s not too loud.

 

Naturally stock makes its own clickerty clack noises and rumbling on the track, so that helps.

 

I can’t be done with artificial smoke. It just doesn’t look right to me.

 

However the sound is just an addition to what is going on in my imagination. Smoke, clash of buffers, people etc., are all added in my head.

 

I’ve seen exhibition layouts in HO here in the US and sound doesn’t do it for me then. Too noisy. Perhaps there’s a scale distance/volume calculation that we’re missing. It does work in the garden (for me) but again there’s the distance thing.....

 

I do the same as you, but on 32mm track, and using mostly live steam, gas fired. Despite being live, neither the sounds nor the steam, sound or look realistic, even when "Chuffer" inserts are used, but the effect is still flipping marvellous, especially on a cold day. It is impossible to scale down (although you can get the smell for sure if you use a coal-fired version, but very pricey). On the other hand, the sound from my one sound equipped diesel in that scale, sounds pretty good. As you say, the outdoor environment lends itself better, with ambient sounds provided by nature and the odd tractor.

[Karhedron]

If people like sound them that is fine, to each his own. I just don't find it convincing, sound doesn't scale well and most models are way, way too loud. And there are sound effects that aren't replicated, I'm thinking primarily of the Doppler effect. I don't find the sound quality particularly impressive either, particularly lower frequencies. However, these are just my opinions.

I totally agree. Whenever I hear sound on a layout, it sounds more gimmicky than realistic and ironically detracts from the realism rather than adding to it. It's certainly not a feature I would pay for and would probably turn it off if it came for free.

[pauliebanger]

Us poor saps who are easily pleased will probably carry on enjoying sound just as much as we did up til now. Perhaps we lack the imagination of those who carry all the perfectly recalled sounds in their heads.

 

I wish I had such a strong imagination.

 

It would save having to build and run a layout at all; I could just picture it all in my mind. That would save having to spend money on expensive locos and rolling stock. And all that flock pretending to be grass, bottle brushes turned into 'trees',  track which is way out of gauge and the forever frozen passengers and staff who do nothing but remind me that the only thing moving are the trains.

 

Telegraph poles that only serve to remind me that the telephone wires are completely absent.

 

And I'm not altogether sure that Hornby or NEM tension lock couplings 'convince me' of their authenticity either. Tension locks 'don't scale'.

 

Just my opinion, of course.

 

If only I had imagination..........LOL.

 

Kind regards,

 

Paul

[Chris M]

If it feels good the do it! So long as it doesn't harm others of course.

 

I have a foot in three camps on this.

 

On my G scale garden railway all my steam outline and three of my diesel outline locos have sound fitted. I find the (not too loud) sound of a steam loco running round the garden is very relaxing even though I use cheap sound cards. Being large scale the sound has a bit of depth and the sound of metal wheels going over joints adds to the picture. So not essential but worth the investment so far as I am concerned.

 

On the other hand I have no intention of fitting sound to my N gauge locos. Whilst there have been some good developments lately the sound in a small loco (n or OO) just doesn't have the depth to make it sound right to me. Others love it and that's great; it's a hobby so let's enjoy it. So whilst I don't take part in sound in the smaller scales I see it is a good development for the hobby and I expect it will continue to grow.

 

The third camp is adding sound to the layout rather than the locos. This works for me on one of my layouts and is very cheap but won't appeal to many and won't fit well with many layouts.

 

Whatever lights your candle as they used to say.

[jjb1970]

Us poor saps who are easily pleased will probably carry on enjoying sound just as much as we did up til now. Perhaps we lack the imagination of those who carry all the perfectly recalled sounds in their heads.

 

I wish I had such a strong imagination.

 

It would save having to build and run a layout at all; I could just picture it all in my mind. That would save having to spend money on expensive locos and rolling stock. And all that flock pretending to be grass, bottle brushes turned into 'trees',  track which is way out of gauge and the forever frozen passengers and staff who do nothing but remind me that the only thing moving are the trains.

 

Telegraph poles that only serve to remind me that the telephone wires are completely absent.

 

And I'm not altogether sure that Hornby or NEM tension lock couplings 'convince me' of their authenticity either. Tension locks 'don't scale'.

 

Just my opinion, of course.

 

If only I had imagination..........LOL.

 

Kind regards,

 

Paul

Good man, it must have taken a lot of courage to admit your inadequacies in public like that, respect is due.

[pauliebanger]

Good man, it must have taken a lot of courage to admit your inadequacies in public like that, respect is due.

 

Thank you, jjb1970, you've no idea how much I value your response.

 

Kind regards,

 

Paul

[Middlesea John]

This has been such and interesting thread with so many points put across eloquently so thanks everyone.

 

I still stick to my position of not wanting sound on the layout but I've now had time to think it over further.

 

The sound of locos, be they steam, diesel or whatever would or could make an interesting addition to a layout if used correctly BUT what is the point of sound if we don't have the other sounds of the railway - shunting wagons, the clickety-click of coaches over rail joints, station announcements, traffic, birdsong etc.? Even then we don't have the smells - steam and diesel locos again and, as mentioned above, the people are stationary as are the vehicles. Coach doors stay closed at a station stop, a little man has a sack of coal on his shoulder whilst standing beside a lorry all weekend. I could go on but I've reached the point. All railway modelling is a set of compromises. It's also like a good book - it's what you see in your head. For that reason, I will continue to imagine the loco sound in the same way as I imagine everything else on the layout.

[Alcanman]

Like 'pauliebanger' I don't seem to have the imagination others claim to have.

 

 One diesel loco with good quality sound shunting on a small shunting/switching layout works for me. When I spent an hour or so back in the 80s

 

watching a Class 25 shunting wagons at Llandudno Junction, the only sound I could hear was the wonderful beat of the Sulzer engine.

[tarifa]

Sound fitted in model loco's is not essential, to some it is nice to have and in some cases neither, as to have or have not.  I have sound fitted in all my loco's, it's not essential but for me nice to have.  I can turn on the sound or turn it off as the mood takes me.  I know the sound is not just like the real thing and it never will be but it does help with the illusion I want to achieve with my trains.  I now find when watching layouts shutting backwards and forwards and going round and round without sound to be dare I say dead.  And on my roundy roundy I can listen to the clackety clack.

 

Mike

[Giz Puk]

Thanks to your latest post Middlesea John,

Ii notice that you are from Beverley and this reminded me of a video from BRM a while ago praising the merits of DCC control over analogue and one of the layouts visited belong to Bev somebody, apologies for forgetting his name, who also came from Beverley.

His layout was DCC sound and also had the sound of pigs in the pig sty which was very effective.

With regard to background sounds, I suppose that it would be quite simple to go out and record everyday sounds, be it on casette for those of us old enough to remember those, CD, mobile phone etc and play these through a speaker (or speakers) concealed on the layout.

Consider how much more realistic it would be to have sound accompanying that road gang digging up the road, a car pipping as it waits in traffic or country sounds acompanying the autotrain as it trundles along that GWR branch (Little Muddle immediately springs to mind.... not that it needs it!!!).

Manufacturers have already started to recognise this potential not just for DCC sound locomotives but also for operating accesories such as crossing barriers.

I for one would love to hear the quiet charm of 'Little Muddle' with the chirping of birds and faint noise heard from the cows/sheep in a distant field being broken by the station bell warning of the approach of the daily milk or local passenger train.

Will anyone be brave enough to include this in their cakebox challenge..... lets wait and see.

Yours Aye,

giz

ld

[Gwiwer]

For those who prefer the full ambient sound experience it should be perfectly possible to have that independantly of DCC sound-fitted locos. It can be done very easily. One records, or otherwise obtains, a suitably long sound clip which is then played back via any suitable device.

 

I once did just that on my DC layout using a portable CD player and one of those silver discs most of us use. I did nothing more than record some “street sounds” on my phone and burned the file to CD. It had the visitors well and truly puzzled as there was an undefined sound in the the background rather than stunned silence when the trains stopped.

[Chris M]

I've posted these before but here is my slightly different take on sounds.

 

Out in the garden my Shay has got a cheap sound card which is good for chuffs but, like so many, not great at the whistle. So I got some whistles on mp3 and downloaded them to my phone which was connected to a bluetooth speaker in the first wagon. The whistle sound was therefore controlled by my phone and completely independent form the chuffs.. I have since got a slightly smaller speaker which can't be seen inside the wagon. I really enjoyed running this round with so many different whistles to try. In the garden birdsong comes for free!

 

 

On one of my N gauge layouts I use the same speaker again worked through my phone. Unfortunately the phone camera doesn't capture the full depth of the sound on this. Those who have seen my layout my be relieved to know that I have changed the sound arrangements a little and the sounds are now played at a much lower volume from a speaker in the header board. I did this to get the sound nearer the visitors ears and so require less volume. I only run sound occasionally, not all the time.

 

 

I also can play cow, sheep and tractor sounds through the same method but I only do this when youngsters are around as I do try not to annoy fellow exhibitors too much. I get the most fun from the thunderstorm. Again the phone just doesn't capture this anywhere near the real sound. I use a big speaker under the baseboard for this sound and it will reverberate round large halls. The flashing lights to represent lightning and sound of both lightning crack and thunder come from a Broadway Limited Imports module. We try to do a bit of theatre but again only when youngsters are watching. We dim the layout lights and say in a concerned way that some thick clouds have come over hiding the sun and causing it to go a bit dark. We then have a bit of thunder and lightning followed by bringing the lights back up to represent the sun coming back out. Maybe not what serious modellers want but it seems to entertain many visitors.

 

[Chris M]

Broadway Limited also do something called rolling thunder which provides a bass for loco sound under the layout. I haven't seen this in use but it could make all the difference on a small scale layout. See http://www.broadway-limited.com/rollingthunder.aspx

[ROSSPOP]

This is a very cost effective sound system some of you might have/ are considering.............

 

 

[Neil]

I don't like sound, or at least not how it's done at the moment. On a layout you hear sound fitted locos at pretty much the same volume wherever they are. Unless you have a huge layout they don't travel far enough away for there to be any perceptible change in volume. Out in the real world as trains come and go so does the noise they make, though they're louder they travel much further and we hear the sound rise as they close and fall as they retreat. I have an idea that it's the monotonous sound of dcc fitted locos, never rising or falling that irks spectators

[jjb1970]

Layouts with ambient sounds are one of my pet hates, especially attempts at witty sounds. OK, at first they can be quite amusing, but go to an exhibition where you can hear these sounds from the other side of a hall with no respite and whatever attraction or amusement evaporates very quickly and turns into a deep loathing.