Railroad class 40 a few questions

[simon b]

Hi all, 

 

I quite fancy getting one of the Hornby railroad (ex Lima) class 40's, but the layout it needs to go on will be laid with the new peco code 75 bullhead track. Does the model still use the Lima deep flange wheels, and will it run on peco code 75? 

 

Also how is the slow speed running of this new motor setup?

 

Cheers.

[davetheroad]

I have a RR Class 40 and a Lma version.

 

The Hornby version has lower profile wheel flanges but as I have code 100 track I can't comment on code 75

 

Slow speed running is inferior to my remotored Lima class 40 

 

It could not manage to pull 12 Bachmann Mk1 coaches which IMO are too heavy. I removed the weights from the coaches which helped plus adding weight to the loco and adding traction tyres with bullfrog snot.

 

The dummy bogie has the same chassis fitting as the powered one so having 2 powered bogies is a viable option?

[Enterprisingwestern]

I have a RR Class 40 and a Lma version.

 

The Hornby version has lower profile wheel flanges but as I have code 100 track I can't comment on code 75

 

Slow speed running is inferior to my remotored Lima class 40 

 

It could not manage to pull 12 Bachmann Mk1 coaches which IMO are too heavy. I removed the weights from the coaches which helped plus adding weight to the loco and adding traction tyres with bullfrog snot.

 

The dummy bogie has the same chassis fitting as the powered one so having 2 powered bogies is a viable option?

 

I presume the class 40 doesn't have traction tyres, so, rather than bulfrog snot, why not use spare traction tyred wheels from someone who has converted something like a class 31? (Assuming of course the axles and wheel diameters are consistent, and they aren't available as spares).

 

Mike.

[davetheroad]

I presume the class 40 doesn't have traction tyres, so, rather than bulfrog snot, why not use spare traction tyred wheels from someone who has converted something like a class 31? (Assuming of course the axles and wheel diameters are consistent, and they aren't available as spares).

 

Mike.

 

It already has traction tyres on 2 of the powered bogie wheels. I bullfrog snotted the other 2 wheels. Fortunately for me power pickup is not an issue as I use on board battery power with radio control.

[MikeParkin65]

Mine, purchased for the TTS chip ran smoothly on code 75 track though I can't comment on bullhead. Far too light footed as supplied though - it was slipping with 6 Bachmann Mk1 where nothing else (including smaller loco's like the Bachmann Jinty) struggled. Plenty of room to add weight though although mine is now astripped to the chassis and used as a sound chip speaker test rig - the TTS chip having gone into a Bachmann 40.

[Enterprisingwestern]

It already has traction tyres on 2 of the powered bogie wheels. I bullfrog snotted the other 2 wheels. Fortunately for me power pickup is not an issue as I use on board battery power with radio control.

 

So, if you want another 2 for the other side from my 31!?

I can measure them if you're interested.

 

Mike.

[Dunsignalling]

I have a RR Class 40 and a Lma version.

 

The Hornby version has lower profile wheel flanges but as I have code 100 track I can't comment on code 75

 

Slow speed running is inferior to my remotored Lima class 40 

 

It could not manage to pull 12 Bachmann Mk1 coaches which IMO are too heavy. I removed the weights from the coaches which helped plus adding weight to the loco and adding traction tyres with bullfrog snot.

 

The dummy bogie has the same chassis fitting as the powered one so having 2 powered bogies is a viable option?

I doubt Hornby expect their Railroad 40 to tackle such work!

 

One solution would seem to be a second motor bogie, though you might need to buy a complete loco to get one.

 

Failing that, the heavy, centre-motored twin-flywheel Bachmann model driving on both bogies should do the business, run better and look nicer to boot.

 

Horses for courses?

 

John

Edited December 4, 2017 by Dunsignalling

[simon b]

Thanks for the replies gents. 

 

The haulage capacity isnt an issue for me, the loco will only be shunting 3 Bachmann guv's at most.  In the ideal world I'd get a Bachmann version, but at half the price the railroad model is tempting.

[Dunsignalling]

Thanks for the replies gents. 

 

The haulage capacity isnt an issue for me, the loco will only be shunting 3 Bachmann guv's at most.  In the ideal world I'd get a Bachmann version, but at half the price the railroad model is tempting.

Should be more than adequate and, while it's less detailed than the Bachmann model, there's no doubt what it represents.

 

I have a couple of locos with Hornby's new motor bogies that replaced the former Lima ringfields, a special edition Lima 47 with a new Hornby chassis under it and a 73.

 

Once nicely run-in they perform very well. They won't pull what the likes of a Hornby 50 or a Heljan 33 will, but I never expected them to.

 

John

[davetheroad]

Thanks for the replies gents. 

 

The haulage capacity isnt an issue for me, the loco will only be shunting 3 Bachmann guv's at most.  In the ideal world I'd get a Bachmann version, but at half the price the railroad model is tempting.

 

In which case it will be fine pulling those GUV

[LNWR18901910]

That could be used as D261 with the face from the actual Hornby model. Though, really, I just use the Bachmann model.

[Guest]

In the ideal world I'd get a Bachmann version, but at half the price the railroad model is tempting.

 

If you're anything like me, you'll buy the Hornby RR 40 a day or two before one box-shifter or other slashes the price of the Bachmann 40... D'oh.

[davetheroad]

There is a video on youtube about the liquid tyre stuff.

 

Although it is primarily for use on the grooved wheels for tyre replacement, it can also be used on non insulated wheels on the drive unit.

 

The amount used can only be a light covering in order for the loco to be level at the motor end.

 

The best option I can think of besides buying a Bachmann class 40 is to twin motor the loco you already have.

 

It would require purchasing another complete chassis to get the motor end and join the wires together so that the motors run in the same direction when power is applied.

 

I know its not a class 40 but a few years ago I bought a Hornby class 66.

 

Unfortunately I did not have the finances to buy a complete spare chassis to get the necessary parts I needed to twin motor it, but if I had, it probably would have been as powerful as the Bachmann 66s.

 

I have twin motored Hornby locos before, mostly 37s, 91s, 92s & hst power cars but its well worth doing.

 

Once the 2nd motor is added and the chassis is tested I then replace the original Hornby weight with old roofing lead surrounded by brass or plasticard to prevent accidental skin contact with the lead.

 

The wires connecting the motors must therefore be long enough to reach over the weight box and still have some slack in them.

 

Have a look at this twin motor Lima having a tug of war with a Bachmann

 

[jjb1970]

The motor bogie used in the old Lima tooling still offered by Hornby is excellent. OK it doesn't have the power of full fat cardan shaft drive designs but it is beautifully smooth and quiet and a vast improvement on the old Lima pancake.

[cravensdmufan]

Mine, purchased for the TTS chip ran smoothly on code 75 track though I can't comment on bullhead. Far too light footed as supplied though - it was slipping with 6 Bachmann Mk1 where nothing else (including smaller loco's like the Bachmann Jinty) struggled. Plenty of room to add weight though although mine is now astripped to the chassis and used as a sound chip speaker test rig - the TTS chip having gone into a Bachmann 40.

Mike, how does the TTS chip perform in your Bachmann 40 please?  And did you use Bachmann's 21 pin to 8 pin converter?

 

Thinking of doing the same.

 

CDF

[MattR]

To try and stay on the cheaper side of things, I'm considering picking up one of the Hornby Railroad reissues of the Lima Class 40. However, I seem to be coming up against some conflicting opinions. 

 

Some people say that the new motors used in the Hornby version are quieter, run smoother and are a general upgrade over the Lima Ringfield motor. However, others say that the original Limas Ringfields are indestructible and will never be topped, short of a centrally mounted motor with driveshafts. After watching a lot of OOBill videos on Youtube, it looks like with some good service, the original Limas will run pretty well. So is it worth going for the Hornby version? I don't run DCC, so it being DCC Ready is inconsequential to my needs.

 

 

Edited July 26, 2023 by MattR

[Chrisr40]

I have the 40 and 59 lima reissues by Hornby and both are very smooth on their Hornby power bogies.

[adb968008]

Both versions are fine,

Lima did a really good job on their tooling, but the motors were noisy, and yes indestructible.

However Hornby acquired Lima and upgraded the motor making it run smoothly.

 

ive upgraded several old Lima locos to Hornby chassis, but have also retained some old Lima ones as its fun to hear them screech a little.

 

You cant really go wrong with either. Lima will offer you much more variety in liveries however.

 

if your planning DCC, Hornbys are ready to go, Lima will need a DCC harness included.

Edited July 26, 2023 by adb968008

[MattR]

That’s good to hear about the Hornby motors. I had read somewhere on Facebook someone claim that Hornby’s version was “trash” for “ruining” the model by putting in a different motor.

[adb968008]

10 minutes ago, MattR said:

That’s good to hear about the Hornby motors. I had read somewhere on Facebook someone claim that Hornby’s version was “trash” for “ruining” the model by putting in a different motor.

Its one of those “you get what you pay for things”.

 

Railroad is half the price of mainrange.

Your getting a nice paint job on a really old model thats had a cheap upgrade.

 

The new motor is 3 pole vs 5 pole in main range, its either its start up or top speed will be sacrificed.

But its fine, ive Lima motors going on 45 years old still going strong. The Hornby can motor, ive got some nearly 15 years also doing fine.

you can still find replacements for both for under £10.

 

 

Edited July 26, 2023 by adb968008

[No Decorum]

To me, Lima motors always looked much better designed than the Hornby Ringfields of the time. They always worked well but they did emit a lot of gear noise; there is little which can be done about that. The screech mentioned above can easily be cured by sparing lubrication, particularly the motor spindles. The replacement Hornby motors are smoother and much quieter but the continuing use of traction tyres limit pick up. Yes, as pointed out, you get what you pay for. No lights and a one-piece body moulding but Lima models are reasonably accurate dimensionally.

[SRman]

13 hours ago, adb968008 said:

Its one of those “you get what you pay for things”.

 

Railroad is half the price of mainrange.

Your getting a nice paint job on a really old model thats had a cheap upgrade.

 

The new motor is 3 pole vs 5 pole in main range, its either its start up or top speed will be sacrificed.

But its fine, ive Lima motors going on 45 years old still going strong. The Hornby can motor, ive got some nearly 15 years also doing fine.

you can still find replacements for both for under £10.

 

 

 

The motor used in the RailRoad diesel and electric motor bogies is 5-pole skew-wound type, hence the smoothness. Some of the RailRoad steam locos use a large 3-pole motor, though.

I have gradually been replacing Lima chassis with Hornby RailRoad chassis (which lack a bit of weight, but that's easily fixed!), particularly with the class 73 and 117 chassis (the 117 was used for quite a few conversions to other classes of DMU). I run DCC and the smoother running and lower power consumption make them more appealing to me. I have converted a few Lima ringfield motors to DCC but the results have been mediocre for the most part.

[MattR]

Sounds like the Railroad version will be the way to go, smoothness- and quietness-wise. Does the unpowered bogie have pickups on both sides of the wheels, or just one side per the original Lima?

[SRman]

7 minutes ago, MattR said:

Sounds like the Railroad version will be the way to go, smoothness- and quietness-wise. Does the unpowered bogie have pickups on both sides of the wheels, or just one side per the original Lima?

 

Both sides have pickups, but some of them have traction tyres on the motor bogies, but the unpowered bogies also have pickups on both sides.

[MattR]

Thanks, the extra pickups are a definite plus. I'm not thrilled with traction tires, but I've built a track cleaner wagon to help with the additional amounts of track dirt. I had read (not sure if in this thread or another Class 40 thread I was looking at) where someone had gotten ahold of a spare unpowered bogie and swapped the traction tired-wheels on the power bogie for the standard wheels from the spare, added some weight and turned it into a halfway-decent puller. I might try something like that myself (mine wouldn't be hauling anything massive anyway, maybe 7 or 8 21-ton coal hoppers).