RMweb Gold Corbs Posted December 23, 2017 RMweb Gold Share Posted December 23, 2017 (edited) Hello all, I'm looking for some advice on what would make up trains to and from an aluminium works in the pre-1968 era. My (fictional) railway has a large works as a prime source and destination for traffic. All I know so far is that Alumina would be shipped in, and aluminium shipped out (as ingots or bars or rolls?). The only dedicated Alumina wagons I've found are the LNER ones based on the 20T coal hopper. http://www.rmweb.co.uk/community/index.php?/topic/37310-lner-alumina-wagon/ However, this video on the works at Burntisland is very interesting On show are: BR standard 16T mineral wagons - not sure if these are internal user only or have arrived from elsewhere Shell/BP tankers (and some larger tankers) - what's the oil for? Covered hopper wagons (are these 'covhops'? what is in them?) 'My' works are powered by a large hydroelectric scheme, does this affect what I need? Sorry for the barrage of questions but I've done a fair few searches on aluminium production and not come up with much! Edited December 23, 2017 by Corbs Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
scottishlocos Posted December 23, 2017 Share Posted December 23, 2017 Corbs Hope i can help the Burntisland plant was not an Aluminium works it was a processing plat for thebauxite ore . I am not sure of the exact process but raw ore was brought into the river Forth and transhipped from bulk carriers into barges which were unloaded on to 16 ton mineral wagons and taken the short distance from the docks to the works . Rail operations to the plant ceased in the 80's i think the steam pugs lasted until late 70's and the plant closed in the early 2000's (sadly now a housing estate) Traffic would have been Bauxite ore in 16 ton minerals Heavy oil for the power/burners at the plant Covhops for the finished processed ore Also other chemicals were used i think caustic soda in tank wagons this was later brought in by ship and road tanker to the works Kind Regards Dave 1 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
scottishlocos Posted December 23, 2017 Share Posted December 23, 2017 (edited) Corbs Works and ore barges as well as the caustic soda tank at docks still visible on google maps satellite view https://www.google.co.uk/maps/@56.0615671,-3.241164,14z/data=!3m1! Dave Edited December 23, 2017 by scottishlocos 1 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mark Saunders Posted December 23, 2017 Share Posted December 23, 2017 The LNER built all steel covered hoppers for this traffic and Prestwins were also used (see Paul Bartlett’s photographs). I am unsure about ingot traffic but believe it was in either tubes or pipes! Mark Saunders Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Gold Corbs Posted December 23, 2017 Author RMweb Gold Share Posted December 23, 2017 (edited) ahhhh that makes sense, so the inbound wagons would be covhops and prestwins. Excellent! http://paulbartlett.zenfolio.com/brprestwin Edited December 23, 2017 by Corbs Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
hmrspaul Posted December 23, 2017 Share Posted December 23, 2017 The LNER built all steel covered hoppers for this traffic Mark Saunders These are two of the three covhops shown. The BR covhop looks like it has modified fillers. 630 is a caustic soda tank http://paulbartlett.zenfolio.com/icicausticsodatta Paul Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
jim.snowdon Posted December 23, 2017 Share Posted December 23, 2017 There were only three aluminium smelters in the UK - - Lochaber (Fort William) (1929), which used hydro-electric power and alumina shipped by rail from Burntisland (hence the LNER hoppers) - Lynemouth (1974), which processed alumina shipped in to Blyth from Limerick and had its own coal fired power station fed from the neighbouring colleries around Ashington, and - Anglesey (1971), which processed alumina shipped in to Holyhead and drew power from Wylfa nuclear power station Jim Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fat Controller Posted December 23, 2017 Share Posted December 23, 2017 In the late 1960s, aluminium slab was brought to Swansea Full Loads Terminal for the rolling mill at Waunarllwyd; the vehicles used were Tube wagons of some description. Aluminium was refined and cast as slabs at the smelter, then taken by rail to rolling mills around the UK; ones that spring to mind were at Waunarllwyd (west of Swansea), Rheola (Neath Valley), Rogerstone (near Newport, Mon.) and Banbury. The three Welsh plants were built during, or just before, WW2, and Banbury dated to the mid-1930s; all had rail connections. They'd been built to provide aluminium sheet for the aircraft industry, so were widely dispersed- the government didn't want to risk losing all the capacity in one raid. I did have a bit of a dig around Google for images but, although there were some aerial views showing large numbers of wagons, I couldn't zoom in to identify any. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pint of Adnams Posted December 23, 2017 Share Posted December 23, 2017 (edited) There were only three aluminium smelters in the UK - - Lochaber (Fort William) (1929), which used hydro-electric power and alumina shipped by rail from Burntisland (hence the LNER hoppers) - Lynemouth (1974), which processed alumina shipped in to Blyth from Limerick and had its own coal fired power station fed from the neighbouring colleries around Ashington, and - Anglesey (1971), which processed alumina shipped in to Holyhead and drew power from Wylfa nuclear power station Jim The first smelter was Foyers, on the eastern shore of Loch Ness, opened 1896 and processed up to 400 tons/pa. The second was at Kinlochleven, opened 1908 and the eventual output of the two plants combined was 10,000 tons/pa. In 1918 British Aluminium proposed an extension at Kinlochleven, to be provided with hydro-electric power abstracting from Lochs Laggan and Treig which were to be connected together and a tunnel from Loch Treig would convey the water to Kinlochleven. There were substantial objections to this scheme and which resulted in the construction of the new plant at Fort William, similarly served by power through the abstracted water conveyed through a tunnel and then falling at speed down a series of pipes on the overlooking hillside to power the turbines. The first stage opened in December 1929 and there were two subsequent stages of extension. The plant was served by the West Highland Section of the LNER and by the private pier that jutted out into Loch Linnhe, by a 3' gauge line that continued through the works and ran all the way to Loch Treig; its proper name was the Upper Works Railway but was locally known as the 'Puggy Line'. One of the essential ingredients was Coprolite Cryolite, which like the alumina was imported by sea and transported along 3' gauge railway from the pier to the plant in 100 Kg bags, loaded onto pallets that were stacked onto flatbed wagons, but with only two shipments a year. Finished ingots were likewise transported away by sea and this continued through the second world war and into the 1960s. Substance abuse corrected - apologies but after a not so wee dram or three the grey cells were mashed. Oh, and possibly through reading too many Discworld books... Edited December 24, 2017 by Pint of Adnams 1 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fat Controller Posted December 23, 2017 Share Posted December 23, 2017 'Coprolite'? When I did geology A-level, a long time ago, that was fossilised s**t. 1 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Marshall5 Posted December 23, 2017 Share Posted December 23, 2017 ahhhh that makes sense, so the inbound wagons would be covhops and prestwins. Excellent! http://paulbartlett.zenfolio.com/brprestwin I only went to BAC Burntisland once but I'm pretty sure they were presflos. Ray. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
MarcD Posted December 24, 2017 Share Posted December 24, 2017 'Coprolite'? When I did geology A-level, a long time ago, that was fossilised s**t. I agree unless it was a trade name for a material. Aluminium is a strange metal to smelt from its ore as it is done by electric arc rather than the traditional roast and melt method. ie heat with carbon etc and let it run out of the furnace. If I'm not mistaken the LMS converted some of the G&SWR's 20ton iron ore hoppers to bulk covered bauxite ore traffic in the late 1920's. Marc Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
jim.snowdon Posted December 24, 2017 Share Posted December 24, 2017 For Coprolite read Cryolite, then it all makes sense. Cryolite is used as a flux in aluminium smelting. Jim Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mark Saunders Posted December 24, 2017 Share Posted December 24, 2017 I agree unless it was a trade name for a material. Aluminium is a strange metal to smelt from its ore as it is done by electric arc rather than the traditional roast and melt method. ie heat with carbon etc and let it run out of the furnace. If I'm not mistaken the LMS converted some of the G&SWR's 20ton iron ore hoppers to bulk covered bauxite ore traffic in the late 1920's. Marc I have hot seen reference to bauxite but some were done for Zinc Oxide! Mark Saunders Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
MarcD Posted December 24, 2017 Share Posted December 24, 2017 For Coprolite read Cryolite, then it all makes sense. Cryolite is used as a flux in aluminium smelting. Jim That makes senceMarc Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fat Controller Posted December 24, 2017 Share Posted December 24, 2017 The bauxite is treated, either near the source, or at a plant like Invergordon, to produce alumina; it is this that is taken by rail to smelters such as Lynemouth and Fort William. This link is interesting:- http://www.australianbauxite.com.au/Bauxite-Types-and-Uses Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Steamport Southport Posted December 24, 2017 Share Posted December 24, 2017 This and the other thread has answered quite a few questions that I've wondered about for quite a while. I have been trying to justify one for my small O Gauge layout but it seems they were very specialist wagons and wouldn't be seen away from their area of use. Thanks everyone. Jason Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
MarcD Posted December 24, 2017 Share Posted December 24, 2017 We have been commissioned to produce some G&SWR hoppers very localised use. Our Furness iron ore wagons were the same or at least that's what we thought until we're were informed by the L&Y lot told me about the 2 ore trains a day that left lindal ore sidings for Wigan. Marc Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Premium Kylestrome Posted December 24, 2017 RMweb Premium Share Posted December 24, 2017 (edited) There were only three aluminium smelters in the UK - - Lochaber (Fort William) (1929), which used hydro-electric power and alumina shipped by rail from Burntisland (hence the LNER hoppers) - Lynemouth (1974), which processed alumina shipped in to Blyth from Limerick and had its own coal fired power station fed from the neighbouring colleries around Ashington, and - Anglesey (1971), which processed alumina shipped in to Holyhead and drew power from Wylfa nuclear power station Jim There was also an aluminium smelter at Kinlochleven (down the road a bit from Fort William). At the time it was built it was one of the biggest in the world. http://www.caledonia.org.uk/socialland/kinlochl.htm It received alumina by rail, from the terminus at Ballachulish, which came in Presflo wagons at one time. Railways3 Scroll down about a third of the page: "Caledonian Railway 0-6-0 57667 at Ballachulish with alumina wagons" David Edited December 24, 2017 by Kylestrome Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Gold Corbs Posted December 24, 2017 Author RMweb Gold Share Posted December 24, 2017 Thanks everyone, this has given me a few more keywords to search with as well. This thread: https://www.lner.info/forums/viewtopic.php?t=10689 Says that the Prestwins were only used in the 1970s so may not be right for my era (1923-1968), so perhaps a covhop or presflo is more appropriate, or something similar to the NE converted wagons if I'm going a bit earlier. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fat Controller Posted December 24, 2017 Share Posted December 24, 2017 This and the other thread has answered quite a few questions that I've wondered about for quite a while. I have been trying to justify one for my small O Gauge layout but it seems they were very specialist wagons and wouldn't be seen away from their area of use. Thanks everyone. Jason You could have something like an abrasives or paint factory that might take sporadic wagon-loads; examples being grinding-wheel factories in Stafford and Hertfordshire. After all, on a railway system that had not one, but two, rail-served false-teeth factories, anything is possible. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mark Saunders Posted December 24, 2017 Share Posted December 24, 2017 Many years ago there was a tread on here and I posted the diagrams, there is a photo in Tourett's LNER wagon book! follow the link http://www.rmweb.co.uk/community/index.php?/topic/37310-lner-alumina-wagon/ Mark Saunders 1 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Gold Corbs Posted December 24, 2017 Author RMweb Gold Share Posted December 24, 2017 Many years ago there was a tread on here and I posted the diagrams, there is a photo in Tourett's LNER wagon book! follow the link http://www.rmweb.co.uk/community/index.php?/topic/37310-lner-alumina-wagon/ Mark Saunders That was the only reference to Alumina wagons I had found before! Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mark Saunders Posted December 30, 2017 Share Posted December 30, 2017 There was a photo sold on eBay of a view of sidings near Fort William showing LNER wooden and all steel Alumina hoppers plus BR Covhops but I do not have a date! Mark Saunders 1 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
design8027 Posted June 6, 2021 Share Posted June 6, 2021 So after reading these great replies I can bring in pressflo’s into a Ballachulish (1950/60s) style yard for unloading and further transportation to the aluminium smelter but unfortunately no finished aluminium to return? Then I could bring my “modeller licence out” Already have plans for a mixed train. Have seen 2 photo’s goods wagons on the front of Ballachulish trains at Oban. Just wondering if they put them on the front again for the trip from connel? Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Recommended Posts
Create an account or sign in to comment
You need to be a member in order to leave a comment
Create an account
Sign up for a new account in our community. It's easy!
Register a new accountSign in
Already have an account? Sign in here.
Sign In Now