Replace bogies on Lima LMS GUV for a total beginner

[flockandroll]

(I have two Lima GUVs which need new wheels as they are quite badly worn. I could just fit replacement wheels from Peter's Spares, but as I intend to keep them long term, I am thinking about replacing the entire bogie with the Bachmann LMS version. Simplest way seems to be to cut off the "fixing pillar" from the Lima bogie and glue it onto the Bachmann bogie. My question is...)

 

...using a Junior hacksaw (the blade is fitted the way round that gives a careful cut) and a file and sandpaper/wet and dry do I have a decent chance of getting a square enough cut? Or do I need a finer saw? Don't have a vice either. And what type of glue please?

 

Just starting out doing stuff like this so need some support, thank you.

 

(edited to change thread title)

Edited January 2, 2018 by flockandroll

[Mark Saunders]

The plastic is a real pig to cut and takes no known solvent!

 

I think a razor saw would be better.

 

Mark Saunders

[brossard]

You could use a replacement bogie such as MJT (from Dart), Brassmasters or even Bill Bedord from Eileens Emporium.  These are brass and compensated/sprung.  You could use the Lima bogie sides stuck on to the new bogie using contact cement or such. 

 

I upgraded mine with Bills bogies:

 

http://www.rmweb.co.uk/community/index.php?/topic/88430-upgrading-a-lima-lms-guv/

 

John

[tamperman36]

If you want to use Bachmann bogies I would use brass nuts and bolts and space it using washers, epoxy the nut inside the van and put the bolt through the pivot hole on the bogie then use 3 or 4 washers to space the bogie, once your happy with how the van rides and the bogies swing easily and don't foul the chassis then secure the bolt in position from inside the van. leave the van roof of for a couple of days so the vapour from any glue doesn't frost the glazing.

 

Another possible option would be to use Replica railways bogies.

[DCB]

I am amazed the wheels have worn out.  I re bogied a Lima ex LMS GUV with Hornby Dublo bogies as the original derailed every time I stopped a train a bit too quickly but I kept the Lima wheels.  I used a couple of big washers to get the height right with a brass sleeve with a flange to keep it from lifting up through the bogie as a pivot and a bolt through with a light spring to allow some movement but damp out the wobbles.

I have used Evostick Pipe Weld to stick bits on to Lima bogies in the past but doubt whether it would survive in a stressed environment like a bogie pivot

Edited December 30, 2017 by DavidCBroad

[RexAshton]

I've fitted Bachmann bogies to one by removing the moulded bosses from the underside of the chassis and then making new ones from laminated platikard bonded in place with butanone (MEK). I'll try to get photos and dimensions if it helps.

[Dunsignalling]

I've fitted Bachmann bogies to one by removing the moulded bosses from the underside of the chassis and then making new ones from laminated platikard bonded in place with butanone (MEK). I'll try to get photos and dimensions if it helps.

I did the same on one many years ago which is still going strong on a second set of Bachmann bogies. Yes, THAT long ago.

 

Held on with chunky self tappers which aren't visible whilst the van is on the track but look mad from underneath and attract mockery but work perfectly!

 

John

Edited December 30, 2017 by Dunsignalling

[flockandroll]

Bought secondhand the wheels were covered in crud that cleaned off with meths and cotton buds to reveal badly scored treads.

I should probably rename this thread "Help a complete novice fit better bogies to Lima GUVs or decide just to replace the wheels".

[Clive Mortimore]

Bought secondhand the wheels were covered in crud that cleaned off with meths and cotton buds to reveal badly scored treads.

I should probably rename this thread "Help a complete novice fit better bogies to Lima GUVs or decide just to replace the wheels".

Hi Flock

 

It might be helpful if you could post a photo of the problem. A question, what type of GUV, a LMS 42 ft or a BR Mk1?

[Enterprisingwestern]

Hi Flock

 

It might be helpful if you could post a photo of the problem. A question, what type of GUV, a LMS 42 ft or a BR Mk1?

 

Whilst not specifically mentioned, I think we are all deducing from the first post, and no subsequent clarification, that it's the LMS variety Clive.

 

Mike.

[Fat Controller]

I'm intrigued by the idea of wheels with such deep scoring on them; the only time I've seen significant tread wear was on some old Triang-Hornby sintered iron wheels.

[jonhall]

I'm intrigued by the idea of wheels with such deep scoring on them; the only time I've seen significant tread wear was on some old Triang-Hornby sintered iron wheels.

 

I've had a set on an old Lima 33 that were so worn they were practically double flanged - I suspect that had done a star-ship mileage on a layout that relied on Relco's, although that wouldn't explain that sort of wear on hauled stock wheels - I'd expect the wear to occur on the plastic pinpoint dimple.

 

Didn't Southern Pride have some fittings on their mk1 underframe mouldings to allow lima bogies to fit to other types of coach?

 

Jon

[tamperman36]

Yes there were several different sizes on the Southern pride sprue to allow for different bogies and clearances, quite useful.

[Graham456]

I'm intrigued by the idea of wheels with such deep scoring on them; the only time I've seen significant tread wear was on some old Triang-Hornby sintered iron wheels.

I wouldn't think it would take much imagination to think of deep scaring on wheels.......now in normal use ok hard, but this takes out a former owner who is a bit of a bodger,who uses course Old files to clean up dirty wheel treads !

Worse things seen at swap meets in junk piles

[Guest Model.Maker]

Bought secondhand the wheels were covered in crud that cleaned off with meths and cotton buds to reveal badly scored treads.

I should probably rename this thread "Help a complete novice fit better bogies to Lima GUVs or decide just to replace the wheels".

I haven't done a GUV yet (ex LMS?) but have the bits on my Round Tuit list.  

 

I have done some ex GW Siphons, replaced the bogies with Hornby & Bachmann bogies.  I cut the floor moulding flush at the mounting points and packed up with plasticard to get the correct height, drilled a hole through and secured the new bogies with bolts and nuts.  It'll be the same with the GUV

[royaloak]

If you want to use Bachmann bogies I would use brass nuts and bolts and space it using washers, epoxy the nut inside the van and put the bolt through the pivot hole on the bogie then use 3 or 4 washers to space the bogie, once your happy with how the van rides and the bogies swing easily and don't foul the chassis then secure the bolt in position from inside the van. leave the van roof of for a couple of days so the vapour from any glue doesn't frost the glazing.

 

Another possible option would be to use Replica railways bogies.

I prefer to glue the bolt inside the body and then put the washers, bogie and then either the nut with a small amount of thread lock on it to stop it undoing or a second nut lightly nipped up.

The advantage is that if the nut(s) fall off the bogie will still be retained by the bolt thread.

[Dunsignalling]

I prefer to glue the bolt inside the body and then put the washers, bogie and then either the nut with a small amount of thread lock on it to stop it undoing or a second nut lightly nipped up.

The advantage is that if the nut(s) fall off the bogie will still be retained by the bolt thread.

My self-tappers are too long to fall out, even if they did work loose.

Edited December 31, 2017 by Dunsignalling

[Enterprisingwestern]

My self-tappers are too long to fall out, even if they did work loose.

 

Do they hold the roof on as well?!

 

Mike.

[Dunsignalling]

Do they hold the roof on as well?!

 

Mike.

No, the roof is held on with Copydex as I've replaced the Lima glazing that originally held it in place.

 

The screws are about half an inch long, it's their thickness that generated the merriment. I just picked them because they fitted the holes in the bogies.

 

John

Edited December 31, 2017 by Dunsignalling

[Enterprisingwestern]

I just picked them because they fitted the holes in the bogies

 

A man after my own heart!

Listen for the engineers turning in their graves!

 

Mike.

[timbowilts]

A man after my own heart!

Listen for the engineers turning in their graves!

 

Mike.

Oh no they won’t as the definition of an engineer is a man who can do for 5 bob what any fool can do for 5 quid. They’ll all be aplauding

 

Tim T

[flockandroll]

These are the LMS GUVs.

So is it self-tappers into plastic strut glued (epoxied ?) underneath the body, or nuts and a bolt, through layers of plastic card?

[Dunsignalling]

These are the LMS GUVs.

So is it self-tappers into plastic strut glued (epoxied ?) underneath the body, or nuts and a bolt, through layers of plastic card?

It's a very long time since I did one of these but for a step-by-step guide, I suggest this. I don't think I've forgotten anything vital.

 

First task is to remove the body from the chassis (I assume you have already got this far). 

 

Get a pair of Bachmann LMS bogies.

 

Get some plastic tube (Evergreen or Plastruct) of a diameter that fits through the holes in them with minimum slop but without binding.

 

Ream/drill out the holes in the underframe to accept this tube and remove remaining traces of what the Lima bogies rested against. The latter isn't 100% essential but IIRC it did make the rest of the job a bit easier.

 

Fix short lengths of the tube into the floor with solvent, making sure they are perpendicular and a bit longer than you think you will need. Leave to set at least overnight, preferably 24 hours.

 

You can then build up whatever support is necessary for the underframe to sit on the bogies at the correct ride height (buffer centres 14mm above rail). I made plasticard washers to fit over the tubes; when fixed in place these reinforce the joints between the tubes and the chassis, helping avoid any danger of the tubes moving.  

 

Then shorten the tubes so they protrude through the bogies by 1mm. Test run with the chassis just sitting on the bogies to ensure it doesn't wobble and add more support if necessary. Good running is usually achieved by allowing one bogie to rock a little from side-to-side but not end-to-end and the other from end-to-end but not side-to-side.

 

Once satisfied with the running, replace the body and test again. Final job is to fix the bogies in place by any method you like; nut & bolt, self tapper, or even plasticard discs stuck over the end of the tubes.   

 

While you are going to this effort, I recommend flush glazing the body and replacing the roof pimples with proper cast ventilators. Take care with the roof/original glazing as it is very brittle - not from age, it was like it from new.

 

Hope this helps

 

John

Edited January 1, 2018 by Dunsignalling

[Enterprisingwestern]

The simplest way IMHO to upgrade the underframe on the 42' LMS van is to use the Comet Models 50' chassis kit and shorten the bogie centres, the trussing is the same on both chassis.

 

Mike.

[Trog]

I've had a set on an old Lima 33 that were so worn they were practically double flanged.

 

Jon

 

False flanges, your poor crossings.