Formula 1 2018

[njee20]

Except in Belgium 3 races ago where Vettel won from second. Or in Monza (not Monzo, stupid autocorrect!) 2 races ago where Hamilton won from 3rd on the grid.

 

Ferrari dropping off hasn't made it more predictable IMO, if anything it's made it less predictable, particularly if Vettel keeps trying to shove his nose up the inside everytime there's a minuscule gap!

Edited October 9, 2018 by njee20

[Oldddudders]

Except in Belgium 3 races ago where Vettel won from second. Or in Monza (not Monzo, stupid autocorrect!) 2 races ago where Hamilton won from 3rd on the grid.

 

Ferrari dropping off hasn't made it more predictable IMO, if anything it's made it less predictable, particularly if Vettel keeps trying to shove his nose up the inside everytime there's a minuscule gap!

I think this is far from the most boring era in F1. Very often in the past we have had a single dominant team and/or driver for much of the season, even for multiple seasons. The Schumacher era at Ferrari comes to mind. This year, while Lewis has creamed it again, the performance of Ferrari and Red Bull and occasionally others has been thereabouts, in several races making Mercedes look second-rate. Think of the first lap at Spa - several other cars were right with Lewis as he approached Les Combes behind Vettel.

 

I cannot ever recall a time when more than 6 cars had a realistic chance in a Grand Prix, assuming good weather and track conditions.

[GeoffAlan]

A word about past Ferrari 'tactics'.

 

Back in the 60s the Ferraris were almost always much faster in a straight line at Monza than at any other track. Remember in those days scrutineering was more of a locally sourced thing than these days under the more powerful FIA of the 21st century. An acquaintance, worked for them for a time and as he owned a hillclimb car thought it would go a lot faster with an F1 engine in it. Used engines were dumped in a skip to be securely melted down and late one evening he climb up to see that was there.

 

The next day Mr Ferrari sent for him to inquire why he'd been spotted looking in the skip, and after several 'hot' minutes just managed to keep his job. His direct manager explained to him, over a few drinks that those used engines were always melted down, and went on to point out that some of Mr Ferrari's Racing Sports cars used a bored out F1 block and 'one or two of them 'may' have been put there 'by mistake'. 

 

Said acquaintance inferred that the reason the cars had been so fast at Monza a couple of weeks ago could possibly be that one or two of the bored out blocks may have found their way on to the circuit. The next day the meltdown skip disappeared only to be replaced by a locked lid skip, placed near the security office.

 

I doubt any team could get away with anything so blatant these days, but any advantage is an advantage, until the FIA find out.

Edited October 9, 2018 by GeoffAlan

[34theletterbetweenB&D]

In support of which I have to ask what was not to enjoy this season, in seeing Lewis keeping up while he didn't have the fastest car? That's what makes him the man to beat. He doesn't need the best car to be world champion, just one that isn't too far off the pace and some chances to work the magic. And as for this past weekend's restart after the safety car at Suzuka, he must have been out on the ragged edge to get away from Valteri et al with such brio.

 

Added to which, the emergence of a small group of young drivers who look to have the chops to give the old guard some real trouble, once they are sitting in more potent machines. More fun in store in 2019

[EddieB]

I think this is far from the most boring era in F1. 

 

Literally so!!

 

His direct manager explained to him, over a few drinks that those used engines were always melted down, and went on to point out that some of Mr Ferrari's Racing Sports cars used a bored out F1 block and 'one or two of them 'may' have been put there 'by mistake'. 

 

[Pete the Elaner]

In support of which I have to ask what was not to enjoy this season, in seeing Lewis keeping up while he didn't have the fastest car? That's what makes him the man to beat. He doesn't need the best car to be world champion.

It was interesting to see the difference.

Lewis showed the ability to accept he would not win everything & settle for decent points instead of gambling them away. Even though he was behind Seb in the championship & it looks like Ferrari were going to have the faster car for the rest of the season, he kept picking up decent points for 2nd place instead of risking them for a win. If Seb had been more thoughtful, he would probably have won in Monza & Italy, also finishing 3rd in Japan. These would have left the drivers' standings very close.

Seb's move on Max in Japan was absolutely ridiculous. Having known that Max was about to serve a 5 second penalty & had a late-stop strategy, the undercut would have been a virtual guarantee.

 

As for the ongoing debate about team orders in Sochi, a collision between team-mates could have been another possibility. If that had happened, the reaction would have been "The team should have issued orders".

I was also amused by an aspect of the Sky commentary at the last 2 races: When Valtteri made a good start then switched over to the other side of the track, he was 'giving Lewis a tow instead of Seb' When Lewis did it at Suzuka he was 'covering Vallteri off', not giving his team-mate a tow so he could beat Max into turn 1 & get himself some protection.

[34theletterbetweenB&D]

...Lewis showed the ability to accept he would not win everything & settle for decent points instead of gambling them away. Even though he was behind Seb in the championship & it looks like Ferrari were going to have the faster car for the rest of the season, he kept picking up decent points for 2nd place instead of risking them for a win...

The stuff we don't know is what the team were telling Lewis, and what influence that had.  They may have been - for example - telling him that Ferrari's superior performance was suspect in their view, and that they were getting heard sympathetically by the FIA, so just hang in there and keep grafting and we'll have the better machine once this is all sorted out. I don't feel that Lewis' comment earlier in the season about Ferrari's 'tricky stuff' was something he invented.

[Andrew P]

Vettel say he wont leave Ferrari, but I still think he will either jump or get pushed.

https://www.wheels24.co.za/FormulaOne/sebastian-vettel-rules-out-leaving-ferrari-20181008

[Andrew P]

Vettel back to Red Bull for 2020 replacing Gasley?

 

Ricciardo poached by Ferrari for 2020?

 

Ocon to Merc for 2020 replacing Bottas?

[Oldddudders]

Would Horner or Marko - the driver supremo - really want Vettel back? Never a team player when last at Red Bull, particularly when a team-mate showed him up, even as a clear team leader at Ferrari he has proved in recent times to be erratic and impulsive. Neither fits well with F1. 

 

But I guess most of Italy is less than chuffed at his antics in recent races, so he might be on a transfer list any time soon.

 

Pitpass has a view : https://www.pitpass.com/63169/Ferrari-must-learn-from-Mercedes

[Andrew P]

Would Horner or Marko - the driver supremo - really want Vettel back? Never a team player when last at Red Bull, particularly when a team-mate showed him up, even as a clear team leader at Ferrari he has proved in recent times to be erratic and impulsive. Neither fits well with F1. 

 

But I guess most of Italy is less than chuffed at his antics in recent races, so he might be on a transfer list any time soon.

 

Pitpass has a view : https://www.pitpass.com/63169/Ferrari-must-learn-from-Mercedes

Yes spot on about Teamwork Ian, there is NO ''I'' in Team and I agree, they probably wouldn't want him back.

[Bill Radford]

Would Horner or Marko - the driver supremo - really want Vettel back? Never a team player when last at Red Bull, particularly when a team-mate showed him up, even as a clear team leader at Ferrari he has proved in recent times to be erratic and impulsive. Neither fits well with F1. 

 

But I guess most of Italy is less than chuffed at his antics in recent races, so he might be on a transfer list any time soon.

 

Pitpass has a view : https://www.pitpass.com/63169/Ferrari-must-learn-from-Mercedes

 

Very interesting article - it must be a red thing - substitute United for Ferrari and City for Mercedes.....

 

I can't see any of the top teams going for Seb as Andy says.

 

Already looking forward to next season, hoping that McLaren can do better for Lando.

 

And, what about this W Championship? There have been some very good young ladies in the Ginetta juniors - Sarah Moore was the champion in 2009 & Sophia Florsch showed Jamie Caroline and Billy Monger how to win races with a double at Thruxton.

[Andrew P]

And Williams look like there having George Russell, so it would be nice to see them start to earn some decent Points next year.

Edited October 10, 2018 by Andrew P

[34theletterbetweenB&D]

...There have been some very good young ladies in the Ginetta juniors - Sarah Moore was the champion in 2009 & Sophia Florsch showed Jamie Caroline and Billy Monger how to win races with a double at Thruxton.

 Given the commercial potential, especially if she happens to be easy on the eye, the fact that it hasn't happened in F1 is informative. The opinion of the one fast jet instructor I know is that the pool of women with the ideal physical combination of compact athletic build and strong enough to handle the G is a very restricted one, much more so than among males. And there are a lot of opportunities for anyone with this physique, plenty of attractive alternatives to the brain dead antics of so much motor sport at the entry grades.

 

(His contention is that the cream of fast jet pilots are the most superior motor sport drivers that the world has never seen.)

[daltonparva]

Murray Walker, A Life in the Fast Lane. - BBC2 7pm Saturday.

[laurenceb]

Sad   https://www.derbytelegraph.co.uk/news/local-news/world-famous-donington-car-museum-2095233

[34theletterbetweenB&D]

Could be good. Some of them may end up in the hands of people who want to get them back in action on track. A plinthed racing car is a nonsense, screaming along or scrap.

[Hobby]

Not all of us can get to see them race, though, so a museum is the only place we're likely to see them close up. I enjoy going to car museums, but not circuits.

[njee20]

Looks like quite the collection of McLarens from the article! Amused I also had a link to why 50008 is sat at Derby, actually not a bad article for the mass meeja.

Edited October 12, 2018 by njee20

[RedgateModels]

Ocon to Merc for 2020 replacing Bottas?

 

I think that's a given

[PhilJ W]

Why can't a trust be set up to mantain the museum?

[Hroth]

Could be good. Some of them may end up in the hands of people who want to get them back in action on track. A plinthed racing car is a nonsense, screaming along or scrap.

But its the safest place for them to be.

 

The engines have a limited lifespan and would be prohibitive to reconstruct, the tyres almost impossible to obtain. They've all got their handling foibles, unless a driver has been trained on them and has hours of experience driving the general type and the actual car at speed (see engine life, tyres), then the thing will end up as scrap in a barrier.

 

And then there's the newer cars, with high capacity batteries and electronics that would be an utter pig to maintain in working order.

 

A museum is the best place.

 

We can make the same case for certain "iconic" locomotives....

[34theletterbetweenB&D]

But its the safest place for them to be.

 

The engines have a limited lifespan and would be prohibitive to reconstruct, the tyres almost impossible to obtain. They've all got their handling foibles, unless a driver has been trained on them and has hours of experience driving the general type and the actual car at speed (see engine life, tyres), then the thing will end up as scrap in a barrier...

Get yourself to a VSCC meet and you might develop a different opinion.

https://www.vscc.co.uk/

[ejstubbs]

Why can't a trust be set up to mantain the museum?

 

Or sell it as a going concern, or pay someone to run it for them?

 

I rather suspect that money issues may be a factor behind the "family responsibilities".  Maybe he's been doing a lot of unpaid work to keep it going but the family situation has changed and now means that he no longer has the time available to do that, and the museum doesn't bring in enough to pay someone else to do what he's been doing.  Or maybe more simply the museum has been haemorrhaging money that the family can't afford any more.

 

Whatever the underlying reasons, it's a shame that the museum is closing but I would have thought it likely that the cars will find new homes rather than be scrapped.  They just won't necessarily be homes where they can be seen by the public.

 

I'm afraid I tend to agree with Hroth as well: in a museum or private collection most of the cars would at least be preserved/conserved (or at least that should be the case).  Don't get me wrong, I enjoy watching historic sports cars race* as much as the next closet petrolhead but I am also well aware that:

(a) Running a race car is expensive whatever its age, and will only be more so if it is a valuable and/or technically complex example.  So it's basically a wealthy man's game, albeit one that's fun to watch**;

(b) Despite everyone's best intentions, sometimes one of these valuable records of past engineering accomplishments does end up getting bent or broken to a greater or lesser extent.  As well as adding further to drain on the owner's wallet, this arguably can detract from both the monetary and the historical value of the vehicle if it cannot be repaired using original components or materials (shades here of the arguments about a certain well-known green steam locomotive's last overhaul/rebuild).

Again, I do enjoy watching some of these beautiful antiques being raced, but I don't regard it as the only valid way to preserve the majority of them.

 

I think that the technical issues that Hroth highlights have some similarities to those being experienced by some teams in the diesel preservation movement: you just can't get the parts.  At least a steam engine can be fixed with a welding kit, spanners and a hammer...(he said, not entirely seriously, before any steam preservationists take offence).

 

* I don't know whether the ITV coverage of this year's Goodwood Revival meeting is still available on catch-up, but there was some cracking racing in that - Troy Corser on the pre-war BMW was a highlight in the vintage motorcycle race.  Nonetheless, a few cars did end up rather...er...the worse for wear.

 

** Actually, the pits between races, the paddock and even the spectators' car park are often at least as good value as the on-track action.

[ejstubbs]

Formula 1: George Russell joins Williams to become third British driver in 2019