Ron Ron Ron Posted January 16, 2018 Share Posted January 16, 2018 I can't find a thread that is covering, or encompassing the standing down of HST's from front line, mainline service on several routes. So I've created this one, in the hope that by collating such topics here, it will save having several topics popping up and making any forum searches much more difficult. Examples: Grand Central have now retired their small HST fleet. A number of GWR HST's have already left the GWML, for conversion for short formed ScotRail service and to go into storage. In the coming 6 months, a large number of GWR HST's will be also be withdrawn and by this time next year, there will only be a relatively small number left. Within only a couple of years, most will be gone from the ECML too. Cross Country??? I'm sure most, if not all, will agree that the HST has been one of, if not the most successful passenger train on British rails. Now coming towards the end of its useful life, I thought it fitting to capture its phasing out with a dedicated topic. Ron . 5 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ron Ron Ron Posted January 16, 2018 Author Share Posted January 16, 2018 https://www.grandcentralrail.com/about-us/news-press/grand-farewell-for-grand-central-hst-fleet/ 1 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pete the Elaner Posted January 16, 2018 Share Posted January 16, 2018 Is it practical to preserve an entire set? It would be nice in principle but to preserve one as a static exhibit would not really do it justice in the short term. 1 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
lmsforever Posted January 16, 2018 Share Posted January 16, 2018 Maybe some short sets will find their way onto other franchises as theyoffer an excellent alternative to uncomfortable dmu,s. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
woodenhead Posted January 16, 2018 Share Posted January 16, 2018 Maybe some short sets will find their way onto other franchises as theyoffer an excellent alternative to uncomfortable dmu,s. Class 142 replacement programme Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
eastwestdivide Posted January 16, 2018 Share Posted January 16, 2018 The Grand Central ones have gone to East Midlands to supplement their existing fleet, according to various forums (wnxxforums et al). And the Pacer replacement suggested by woodenhead isn't that far off the mark: as far as I understand it, refurbished short HST sets with power doors go to GW and Scotrail, which along with other fleet changes allows a cascade of older DMUs to Northern (and others??) so they can phase out their pacers somewhere near the deadline in their franchise agreement. Ooh, a cascade, what a BR-era idea. 1 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ron Ron Ron Posted January 16, 2018 Author Share Posted January 16, 2018 (edited) https://www.railmagazine.com/news/fleet/scotrail-mk-3-refurbishment-plan . Edited January 16, 2018 by Ron Ron Ron Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
ejstubbs Posted January 16, 2018 Share Posted January 16, 2018 I understand it, refurbished short HST sets with power doors go to GW and Scotrail And retention tanks? Or am I behind the times with the waste discharge issue? Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
NickC Posted January 16, 2018 Share Posted January 16, 2018 So are any class 43s actually being decommissioned and scrapped or are they all being refurbished to power short-form HSTs with 4 x MK3 coaches which have been refurbished with power doors? Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
eastwestdivide Posted January 16, 2018 Share Posted January 16, 2018 (edited) And retention tanks? Or am I behind the times with the waste discharge issue? According to https://www.railengineer.uk/2017/03/23/scotrails-new-hsts/ Modern controlled emission toilets from Semvac will be fitted, providing a significant environmental improvement Edited January 16, 2018 by eastwestdivide 1 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bedders Posted January 16, 2018 Share Posted January 16, 2018 Is it practical to preserve an entire set? It would be nice in principle but to preserve one as a static exhibit would not really do it justice in the short term. I think the http://www.125group.org.uk/ are planning to, based at the North GCR. I think a set would be very viable for charters. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ken.W Posted January 16, 2018 Share Posted January 16, 2018 Examples:Within only a couple of years, most will be gone from the ECML too . Erm, I wouldn't be so sure on that one ...... Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rivercider Posted January 16, 2018 Share Posted January 16, 2018 As a fan of the HST (I commuted on them for 30 years during my railway career) I am looking forward to trying out the GWR HST Gti version. As I understand it they will be deployed between Plymouth and Penzance, and also between Cardiff and Taunton. Now I would think that having a few more and extending them to fill the 'gap' between Taunton and Plymouth on semi-fast services might be handy, it would reduce the reliance on Cross Country Voyagers over that stretch, cheers 2 1 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ken.W Posted January 16, 2018 Share Posted January 16, 2018 Yesterday, past a GW Power Car and 4 Mk3s standing on Craigentinny depot Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ron Ron Ron Posted January 16, 2018 Author Share Posted January 16, 2018 So are any class 43s actually being decommissioned and scrapped or are they all being refurbished to power short-form HSTs with 4 x MK3 coaches which have been refurbished with power doors? The ones going to ScotRail (IIRC 26 sets?) are being shortened, so half the Mk3 trailers from them will go into storage. GWR are keeping something like 11 similar short sets (2+4), so again half of the Mk3's from them go into storage. VTEC, or any successor, may be keeping a few in the short term, but they'll all go eventually. That leaves just under half the ex-GWR & VTEC HST fleet as spare, so I think it likely scrapping will start in due course. EMT are getting a boost with extra sets, to release some 222's to be used on other routes, but when the franchise is relet, a replacement is quite likely to be part of the next incumbents terms. . Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Gold Dunsignalling Posted January 16, 2018 RMweb Gold Share Posted January 16, 2018 And retention tanks? Or am I behind the times with the waste discharge issue? All part of the same conversion programme AIUI. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Gold Robert Shrives Posted January 16, 2018 RMweb Gold Share Posted January 16, 2018 Looking in "Rail" today EMT about to melt down as HSTs not to be refurbed and the GC sets are stop gap sets so these finished by 2020. I suspect many tears will be shed about then. I guess IEPs will beforced on to the bidders as part of some "package." Some vague talk about future Welsh network using "Castle" HSTs fr Marches o free up 158s but 175 cascades. I guess the Bute branch with HST would just be sort of covered travelator?. HSTs have been to Blaenau Ffestiniog now that would be an enhancement. current work at wabtec proceeds apace with one coach having long term testing of a door - 24hour cycling in an attempt to destroy it. 10 plus XC and others trailers on site but as you might expect that coaches show variations in age related ware and build quality so not an easy job. - It does now make the scrapping of the Irish plug door stock look a little thoughtless but then that is through deep thick rose tinted specs !! Robert Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
cheesysmith Posted January 16, 2018 Share Posted January 16, 2018 The CET means changing the two toilets for only one CET because you can only fit the tank to one end of the coaches, because the other end has the brake gear where the tank is fitted. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
black and decker boy Posted January 16, 2018 Share Posted January 16, 2018 EMT need the ex-GC sets to supplement the existing HST & 222 fleet due to timetable changes imposed by Thameslink. It is not to allow a cascade of 222 onto regional services. EMT are apparently in discussion with DfT as to what is used in 2020 and up to any new fleet coming on line and what if anything gets done if it’s HSTs. VTEC reportedly having to consider life extension to some HSTs for services north of Newcastle as the OHLE upgrades to allow the full Azuma/IET timetable are delays/postponed so not enough juice on offer. This may see the need for shortened 91&mk4 sets done away with. All this is part of the early termination & replacement of the ECML franchise. Some talk elsewhere of HST power cars hauling Mk4 stock to save expense of upgrading Mk3 trailers given the Mk4s are going to be redundant. Adjustments to cabling etc needed but easier /cheaper than new doors, toilets etc. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Premium Dava Posted January 16, 2018 RMweb Premium Share Posted January 16, 2018 Are these 4+2 sets going to run on both engines, if so the power/weight ratio will be impressive on Scottish and Western routes! At the Brush works there is a plain blue HST power car poking its nose out of the prep shed ready to leave, probably with the other power car attached. It looks like the MML may be the final hunting ground of the full HST sets in a couple of years. There is certainly the intention to preserve a set based on GCRN, or at least to match the prototype class 252 and 3 trailer cars with a production variant. Shortage of siding and storage space for spares, rather than available stock, is likely to be the issue. Dava Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ron Ron Ron Posted January 16, 2018 Author Share Posted January 16, 2018 ....I guess IEPs will beforced on to the bidders as part of some "package.".... The IEP doesn't cover the MML. Class 800 series trains might be selected though. .. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
jamesg Posted January 17, 2018 Share Posted January 17, 2018 Class 142 replacement programme Now that could work... http://www.hondawanderer.com/43042_Moreton-in-Marsh_2008.htm 5 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
br2975 Posted January 17, 2018 Share Posted January 17, 2018 I'm sure most, if not all, will agree that the HST has been one of, if not the most successful passenger train on British rails. Agreed . Brian R Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Steadfast Posted January 17, 2018 Share Posted January 17, 2018 Saw this on another forum earlier https://twitter.com/WesternHarrier/status/953338005707743234 Looks smarter than I expected, it'll be weird seeing mk3s with recessed doors though! They look very narrow, I'm surprised it's wide enough for the 2020 wheelchair regs Jo Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Premium Reorte Posted January 17, 2018 RMweb Premium Share Posted January 17, 2018 Looks smarter than I expected, it'll be weird seeing mk3s with recessed doors though! They look very narrow, I'm surprised it's wide enough for the 2020 wheelchair regs Can't see that whilst at work but I'm guessing the same size doors they've always had but now plug? Them moving entirely out of the way should give a bit more space than a straightforward hinged door. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
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