TTS Diesel Decoders

[Peter Beckett]

I always use Kapton tape because of its outstanding properties

 

Peter 

[railroadbill]

I've just been installing a TTS sound decoder into a Bachmann class 45.  The model is one of the earlier 8 pin ones, well run in and has been chipped for some  time. I've also fitted extra pickups to the inner bogie wheels a while ago.  The TTS chip  is for a 47, but since 45s, 46s and 47s had the same Sulzer H-12 engines in slightly different states of tune, the exhaust sounds should be sufficiently similar.  Also I've got some videos I took of  44s, 45s, 46s on the North Norfolk railway at a diesel gala, and I can't tell the difference between those and preserved 47s on video.

Anyway, if all fails I've got another Bachmann 47 spare and the TTS chip can go in that (with a 21/8 pin adapter). 

 

First of all, the round speaker that comes wired to the chip was too large to fit. I investigated putting a (different) speaker in the fuel tank moulding, but that is quite short on a 45.   I therefore went back to fitting a speaker on top of the chassis.  I took the dummy fan off and cut off the moulded reinforcing ring on the body that it fits to.  I bought a replacement standard rectangular 8 ohm speaker - I had to extend the wires to it.  By using blobs of blutack where the speaker goes and putting the body  back on it squashed the blutack, I could then measure that and there would be a gap of 3.5mm above the speaker, so I thought I'd be ok with  the speaker under the fan grill.

There definitely wasn't enough room for the speaker in any of the plastic speaker enclosure boxes I've got, so I made a "dam" of  blutack round the speaker (which was also stuck to a piece  of double sided tape) to fit it.

 

I'd wrapped the chip in a single length of electrical insulating tape rather  than the sellotape Hornby suggested. They say not to use the old-style sheath they used to supply with locos - i wonder if this can run hot?  Chip held in place on a piece of double sided tape, and wires using tacky wax in a couple of places.

 

Tried it out without the body, seemed to work ok so fitted the body back on. 

 

Sounds seem fine, they aren't too loud in my loft so probably won't need to adjust them, other sound chips (Loksound) I've had to quieten.

 

I like the way that you can use function keys to notch up the sound regardless of controller setting, can notch down and also drop to idle while still moving. Also the function key for "full on " thrash.  The rather "worn" horn sounds are great imho. So I think Hornby have put a lot into easy usability with these chips.

 

Loco runs fine, except for jerkiness at very low speeds or starting/stopping. So I think a move to the programming track will be needed for cv adjustment. I had to do this with the original chip, I'll put in the same values as before.

 

So there we are at the moment, £34 for chip and £4 for replacement speaker, an older loco has been rejuvenated and should be very satisfying to operate. 

Edited September 22, 2018 by railroadbill

[Izzy]

 

With regard to current draw I believe it is not just the current draw when running that needs to be less than the maximum the decoder can handle, but that drawn when the motor is stalled, which limiting the top speed of the loco won’t reduce.

 

Izzy

[cravensdmufan]

I'd wrapped the chip in a single length of electrical insulating tape rather  than the sellotape Hornby suggested. They say not to use the old-style sheath they used to supply with locos - i wonder if this can run hot?  Chip held in place on a piece of double sided tape, and wires using tacky wax in a couple of places.

 

 

Loco runs fine, except for jerkiness at very low speeds or starting/stopping. So I think a move to the programming track will be needed for cv adjustment. I had to do this with the original chip, I'll put in the same values as before.

You are right. I'd be wary of wrapping the chip in electrical insulating tape. TTS decoders do tend to get warm.  I wrapped one in Kapton tape, which I thought would be ideal as it is very thin, but it got so hot and blew the decoder.  Now I don't wrap them at all to let the air circulate around them - but making sure they don't touch the metal chassis block or any wires.

 

Slow speed jerkiness is usually cured by setting CV150 to 1, and then fine tuning CV's 153 and 154.  My Bachmann 47s are very smooth with CV3=35, CV4=20, CV 150=1 CV153=215 and 154=0. Of course, your 45 may be different!  Very much trial and error I'm afraid, but well worth spending time tuning the CVs especially, as you say, when the sound chip is just £34.

Edited September 22, 2018 by cravensdmufan

[cravensdmufan]

Just for future reference, as you had to buy a new speaker anyway, there are speakers which would have been much easier to fit and maybe would have sounded better too, such as this one https://rover.ebay.com/rover/0/0/0?mpre=https%3A%2F%2Fwww.ebay.co.uk%2Fulk%2Fitm%2F263917581308

 

Richard

I can confirm these speakers are ideal for Bachmann locos that have a very shallow tray in the chassis block.  I have purchased a good few from Richard (no connection, satisfied customer).  They provide a better sound than the speaker supplied with the TTS chip, just a bit quieter.  Which suits me as I found the originals were too loud even reducing CV182 to minimum 1.

[railroadbill]

Just for future reference, as you had to buy a new speaker anyway, there are speakers which would have been much easier to fit and maybe would have sounded better too, such as this one https://rover.ebay.com/rover/0/0/0?mpre=https%3A%2F%2Fwww.ebay.co.uk%2Fulk%2Fitm%2F263917581308

Richard

 

Thanks, Richard. This first installation was a bit of an experiment, just to see how well TTS worked. I intend to try different speakers next time, a friend has just used 2 sugar cube speakers with one and they installed very easily, he tells me (and sounded good).

Other sound equipped locos I've got (loksound chips) have similar rectangular speakers, so should be a closer comparison of sounds this first time. Impressed so far.

Ps the new speaker came from your shop, very good service, may I say.

[railroadbill]

You are right. I'd be wary of wrapping the chip in electrical insulating tape. TTS decoders do tend to get warm.  I wrapped one in Kapton tape, which I thought would be ideal as it is very thin, but it got so hot and blew the decoder.  Now I don't wrap them at all to let the air circulate around them - but making sure they don't touch the metal chassis block or any wires.

 

Slow speed jerkiness is usually cured by setting CV150 to 1, and then fine tuning CV's 153 and 154.  My Bachmann 47s are very smooth with CV3=35, CV4=20, CV 150=1 CV153=215 and 154=0. Of course, your 45 may be different!  Very much trial and error I'm afraid, but well worth spending time tuning the CVs especially, as you say, when the sound chip is just £34.

Thanks for advice about the tape, good point.

And the cv settings are very useful. I had to adjust the original non sound chip I used in the loco. That's the next step.

[JSpencer]

Just for future reference, as you had to buy a new speaker anyway, there are speakers which would have been much easier to fit and maybe would have sounded better too, such as this one https://rover.ebay.com/rover/0/0/0?mpre=https%3A%2F%2Fwww.ebay.co.uk%2Fulk%2Fitm%2F263917581308

 

Richard

 

Very useful post. I just placed an order.

[railroadbill]

You are right. I'd be wary of wrapping the chip in electrical insulating tape. TTS decoders do tend to get warm.  I wrapped one in Kapton tape, which I thought would be ideal as it is very thin, but it got so hot and blew the decoder.  Now I don't wrap them at all to let the air circulate around them - but making sure they don't touch the metal chassis block or any wires.

 

Slow speed jerkiness is usually cured by setting CV150 to 1, and then fine tuning CV's 153 and 154.  My Bachmann 47s are very smooth with CV3=35, CV4=20, CV 150=1 CV153=215 and 154=0. Of course, your 45 may be different!  Very much trial and error I'm afraid, but well worth spending time tuning the CVs especially, as you say, when the sound chip is just £34.

Finally got round to getting up in the loft and getting loco on programming track.  The CV settings you suggested work very well, no juddering on starting/stopping at all now and loco runs smoothly. I'll probably need to adjust deceleration to be a bit quicker to suit the layout, but pretty well there.

Thanks very much for advice.

 

Sound is very satisfying so far, for £34 chip plus £4 replacement speaker, pretty good value!

Next running session I'll run it with some other sound chip locos.

Edited October 6, 2018 by railroadbill

[newbryford]

You are right. I'd be wary of wrapping the chip in electrical insulating tape. TTS decoders do tend to get warm.  I wrapped one in Kapton tape, which I thought would be ideal as it is very thin, but it got so hot and blew the decoder.  Now I don't wrap them at all to let the air circulate around them - but making sure they don't touch the metal chassis block or any wires.

 

 

 

Has anyone considered using heatsink paste with a decoder to conduct heat to say a chassis block?

https://www.ebay.co.uk/sch/i.html?_from=R40&_trksid=p2505460.m570.l1313.TR4.TRC1.A0.H0.Xheatsink+paste.TRS0&_nkw=heatsink+paste&_sacat=0

 

Cheers,

Mick

[NIK]

Has anyone considered using heatsink paste with a decoder to conduct heat to say a chassis block?

https://www.ebay.co.uk/sch/i.html?_from=R40&_trksid=p2505460.m570.l1313.TR4.TRC1.A0.H0.Xheatsink+paste.TRS0&_nkw=heatsink+paste&_sacat=0

 

Cheers,

Mick

 

Hi,

 

The paste might end up conducting heat from the power transistors to the microcontroller which might not be a good thing.

 

If the power transistors are on the opposite side from the microcontroller and the paste is used on the power side then it might be beneficial - but only the manufacturers know the performance of the components at temperature.

 

 

Regards

 

Nick

[newbryford]

Hi,

 

The paste might end up conducting heat from the power transistors to the microcontroller which might not be a good thing.

 

If the power transistors are on the opposite side from the microcontroller and the paste is used on the power side then it might be beneficial - but only the manufacturers know the performance of the components at temperature.

 

 

Regards

 

Nick

 

And what is generally unknown is that a lot of components will actually run at higher than "hot to touch" temperatures.

An extreme example - A common 2N3055 is rated up to 200 deg C (knowing full well that you'll not find a 2N3055 in a loco - but they were quite common in DC controllers.)

Edited October 8, 2018 by newbryford

[JSpencer]

I,ve converted my Bachmann 47 to TTS sound using an 8 pin adaptor.

 

As I was sort of expecting, you cannot control interior lighting via DCC but hey I will use the button underneath the loco if needed. I changed the speaker too as recommended earlier in the thread.

One sound fitted Bachmann 47 for less than £130 (the loco cost me about £85 a good 10 years ago).

Speaker and convertor plug brought Richard Croft on here, no connection, just one satisfied customer.

 

Picture of the arrangement:

 

Edited October 11, 2018 by JSpencer

[JSpencer]

Thanks for the mention,

I haven’t tried it on a 47 but I know that the control of aux1 (usually cab lights) is quite high in the functions on the TTS decoder, something like f20, not sure if you got that far when trying to operate the cab lights?

Richard

Thanks Richard, it said F25, but it does not do anything. Oddly I have just one cab light on, permanently.

[RAF96]

F25 is aux function on TTS diesels, F18 on steamers. Both use the green wire as the negative switch in combination with the blue positive feed.

Rob

[Ouroborus]

I,ve converted my Bachmann 47 to TTS sound using an 8 pin adaptor.

 

As I was sort of expecting, you cannot control interior lighting via DCC but hey I will use the button underneath the loco if needed. I changed the speaker too as recommended earlier in the thread.

One sound fitted Bachmann 47 for less than £130 (the loco cost me about £85 a good 10 years ago).

Speaker and convertor plug brought Richard Croft on here, no connection, just one satisfied customer.

 

Picture of the arrangement:

 

image.jpg

 

Neat work.  Has the motor performance needed a tweak?

[Johnfromoz]

I,ve converted my Bachmann 47 to TTS sound using an 8 pin adaptor.

As I was sort of expecting, you cannot control interior lighting via DCC but hey I will use the button underneath the loco if needed. I changed the speaker too as recommended earlier in the thread.

One sound fitted Bachmann 47 for less than £130 (the loco cost me about £85 a good 10 years ago).

Speaker and convertor plug brought Richard Croft on here, no connection, just one satisfied customer.

Picture of the arrangement:

image.jpg

Interesting to see this 21 to 8 pin converter seems to fit inside the 47. Most people seem to be reporting that the converter board and 8 pin plug sit too high for the body to fit back on. Curious to see how you made this work?

 

John

[JSpencer]

Interesting to see this 21 to 8 pin converter seems to fit inside the 47. Most people seem to be reporting that the converter board and 8 pin plug sit too high for the body to fit back on. Curious to see how you made this work?

 

John

 

It plugged in straight no problem. The actual holder is only a tad bigger than the blanking plate it replaces. The 8 pin plug of the chip adds about 1.5mm on top, but it can flex down a mill or so as well.

The only issue really was getting the 4 chassis clips to re-engage with the holes in the door glazing.

 

I checked that the position of the chip did not foul anything likewise, made sure speaker sat in the hole and wires went round and not underneath it.

[JSpencer]

That makes me think that the contacts for the cab lights at one end aren't working right, they can be a pain to line up!

 

I suspect that too or a loose wire. In any case the remaining lit end just happens to be the front with the driver so might leave as is.

 

 

 

Neat work.  Has the motor performance needed a tweak?

 

 

Surprisingly no. I was waiting for the jitters and it did not happen.

[Johnfromoz]

It plugged in straight no problem. The actual holder is only a tad bigger than the blanking plate it replaces. The 8 pin plug of the chip adds about 1.5mm on top, but it can flex down a mill or so as well.

The only issue really was getting the 4 chassis clips to re-engage with the holes in the door glazing.

 

I checked that the position of the chip did not foul anything likewise, made sure speaker sat in the hole and wires went round and not underneath it.

Thanks. Was the converter plug you used the Bachmann version or other brand? Im told there is quite a ditternce in height between some of them, and the 47s roof profile doesnt help.

[JSpencer]

Thanks. Was the converter plug you used the Bachmann version or other brand? Im told there is quite a ditternce in height between some of them, and the 47s roof profile doesnt help.

 

It is the one provided by Roads & Rails (Richard Croft in this thread). Link to the shop is here: http://www.roads-and-rails.co.uk/index.html

[blueeighties]

Over the last couple of years, I have installed a couple of hundred ESU and Zimo soundchips. Other than the occasional installer error, nothing has been faulty or failed. This year I have installed a handful of Hornby TTS chips.

 

Every one of them operates incorrectly. Tail lights and markers flickering on and off at the same time on both loco ends, the loco won't remain stationery with the throttle set at zero, whilst strange sound effects sound of their own accord. Over half have just died completely under final testing.

I have taken the decision to not install any more of the admittedly very well priced, but inherently poor quality and Ill designed chips. Why do Hornby continue to produce such useless rubbish? I just don't understand. Really devalues the brand.

Edited October 14, 2018 by blueeighties

[Chrisr40]

Over the last couple of years, I have installed a couple of hundred ESU and Zimo soundchips. Other than the occasional installer error, nothing has been faulty or failed. This year I have installed a handful of Hornby TTS chips.

 

Every one of them operates incorrectly. Tail lights and markers flickering on and off at the same time on both loco ends, the loco won't remain stationery with the throttle set at zero, whilst strange sound effects sound of their own accord. Over half have just died completely under final testing.

I have taken the decision to not install any more of the admittedly very well priced, but inherently poor quality and Ill designed chips. Why do Hornby continue to produce such useless rubbish? I just don't understand. Really devalues the brand.

I can only think you have been phenomenally unlucky blue eighties - every one I have bought pre fitted or ham fistedly installed myself has been fine.

Best regards Chris

[Roger Sunderland]

Richard, I too have fitted a large number of ESU and Zimo sound decoders, both for myself and others. I've tried TTS decoders, as you can't fault the price, but IMHO you get what you pay for.

Out of the box I've never had an issue with either an ESU or a Zimo decoder but it's a different story with TTS. Maybe they are designed to be fitted to Railroad models but anything more sophisticated seems to struggle. Jerky running at slow speed is almost a given plus wrongly functioning lights. Ok, as Cravensdmufan, in an earlier post says, by spending a lot of time changing CVs, a laborious task if you've not got a Sprog (do TTS work on Sprog?) you may eventually get a smooth runner. But is this good enough? Many people don't have access to high end control systems that allow major changes to CVs but I do get why they are popular. I'm sorry but the price may be attractive, the quality isn't.

[cravensdmufan]

Richard, I too have fitted a large number of ESU and Zimo sound decoders, both for myself and others. I've tried TTS decoders, as you can't fault the price, but IMHO you get what you pay for.

Out of the box I've never had an issue with either an ESU or a Zimo decoder but it's a different story with TTS. Maybe they are designed to be fitted to Railroad models but anything more sophisticated seems to struggle. Jerky running at slow speed is almost a given plus wrongly functioning lights. Ok, as Cravensdmufan, in an earlier post says, by spending a lot of time changing CVs, a laborious task if you've not got a Sprog (do TTS work on Sprog?) you may eventually get a smooth runner. But is this good enough? Many people don't have access to high end control systems that allow major changes to CVs but I do get why they are popular. I'm sorry but the price may be attractive, the quality isn't.

Roger, as you rightly say you do have to spend time adjusting CVs. But I have 16 TTS decoders fitted to mostly Bachmann and some Hornby locos and never had any problems. Apart from one where I wrapped the chip up in tape and it overheated and blew.  My own fault. Lesson learned.

 

Plug and play they certainly are not.  But once you get the hang of CV150 (usually need to change to 1) settings, and adjust acceleration and decceleration CVs 3 and 4 (which most folk adjust to their liking anyway with any brand of decoder)  I can honestly say I have got them all as smooth as a Zimo or ESU.  Yes, really!

 

I have a bog standard NCE Powercab which allows me to read back and adjust CVs.  Recently I have downloaded the free JMRI programme http://jmri.sourceforge.net/download/index.shtml which makes the job even easier.  And thanks to Brian's efforts all TTS decoders can now be read automatically, see separate thread http://www.rmweb.co.uk/community/index.php?/topic/136936-tts-decoders-updated-jmri-decoder-file-peppercorn-class-a1-tornado-added/ how to download file.

 

Whilst I do realise their sound and lighting functions are more limited than the "full fat" decoders, I shall continue to purchase TTS to steadily retro fit my locos that are at present eerily silent without any sound!

 

Oh, and here's my latest TTS, albeit factory fitted by Hornby - I'm well pleased with it, and haven't even upgraded the speakers yet!  Which I will eventually do.

 

Edited October 14, 2018 by cravensdmufan