Annie's Virtual Pre-Grouping, Grouping and BR Layouts & Workbench

[Annie]

2 hours ago, Paleopotato09 said:

I'm rather new to the realm of pregrouping locomotives and other resources. What i'm mainly intrested in is how brightly coloured and well looked after everything was. 

None of that BR era dirt and neglect with nothing being maintained properly.  It's definitely a much more interesting time period to be interested in.

[Annie]

After a lot of frowning at my D299 textures in Paint.NET I've ended up with this which I'm a lot happier about.  A  D302 5 plank will be next and then I'm doing a D1802 covered van.

 

[Adam88]

2 hours ago, Edwardian said:

 

 

 

 

 

Personally I never think Cornwall's unpainted dome suits her.  One photograph of her in that condition was published once and shortly afterwards the paint vanished.  Most unCrewelike IMHO. 

[Paleopotato09]

3 hours ago, Compound2632 said:

 

It's the lure that draws you in. In next to no time you'll find that you've joined a Line Society and are visiting the National Archives to scour your favoured company's Board Minutes for references to manure traffic.

Ah well i'm in deepest darkest Teesside so i am going to try and build a Stockton and Darlington or North Eastern Railway themed layout. The digital models in games like train simulator i find are very useful as 3d colour guides for models. 

[Paleopotato09]

2 hours ago, Annie said:

None of that BR era dirt and neglect with nothing being maintained properly.  It's definitely a much more interesting time period to be interested in.

its more appealing due to the massive amount of variety in stock rather then just a sea of class 37s and DMUs.
i also enjoy all of the research to figure out how my local area has changed 

[CKPR]

7 hours ago, Paleopotato09 said:

Ah well i'm in deepest darkest Teesside so i am going to try and build a Stockton and Darlington or North Eastern Railway themed layout. 

Pop over to the M&CR branchlines thread as we're discussing (ex) S & D /NER Central Division wagons. 

[Annie]

Afternoon Broad Gauge Cheer Up Picture:  Courtesy of the Broad Gauge Society, - 'Caesar' class engine 'Hecuba' with a goods train.  The photo is thought to have been taken late 1850s or early 1860s.

 

[Compound2632]

It's those diamonds on the front buffer beam again. I have the impression that while there are a good few photos of the last broad gauge expresses at speed in 1892, earlier photos of broad gauge trains, especially goods trains, rather than locomotive portraits, are very rare. 

 

I suppose broad gauge wagon sheets were larger than the later standard 21' 0" x 14' 4"?

[Hroth]

23 minutes ago, Compound2632 said:

It's those diamonds on the front buffer beam again. I have the impression that while there are a good few photos of the last broad gauge expresses at speed in 1892, earlier photos of broad gauge trains, especially goods trains, rather than locomotive portraits, are very rare. 

 

I suppose broad gauge wagon sheets were larger than the later standard 21' 0" x 14' 4"?

 

Were the diamonds a visibility enhancement?  They certainly stand out!  As for "white", were they?  The emulsion sensitivities of wet plate negatives would be variable, depending on the recipe the photographer was using to make them up, remember they would be prepared and developed more or less on the spot, which is what makes such photos particularly rare.  White is a probability, if there is written evidence for them, though yellow is possible too.

 

The last broad gauge expresses would have been photographed on the more readily available and easily used dry plates which could cope with moving images more readily, the (probably amateur) photographer would be able to use a "fast" shutter speed to freeze motion, a facility unavailable in the 1850s!

 

It IS a rather large wagon sheet. The wagon "looks" as if it has high rounded ends.

 

The goods shed behind looks shiny new. Perhaps a GWR official photographer was there to photograph the newly completed shed and as they had some emulsion left over, snapped the goods train too.

 

[Annie]

34 minutes ago, Compound2632 said:

It's those diamonds on the front buffer beam again. I have the impression that while there are a good few photos of the last broad gauge expresses at speed in 1892, earlier photos of broad gauge trains, especially goods trains, rather than locomotive portraits, are very rare. 

Yes any picture of a Broad Gauge goods train is rare.  I have no end of pictures of 'Rover' singles from the last days of the Broad Gauge, but anything to do with goods trains is very much an uncommon item more's the pity.  No doubt with photography being not that common and expensive, not to mention the use of wet plates, any photographer would be going after interesting subjects which would leave the humble goods train out in the cold.

 

37 minutes ago, Compound2632 said:

I suppose broad gauge wagon sheets were larger than the later standard 21' 0" x 14' 4"?

Beyond 'Great Western Way' noting that Broad Gauge wagon sheets were thought to have been made from five lengths of canvas sewn together there's not a word about their actual size.

[Annie]

14 minutes ago, Hroth said:

It IS a rather large wagon sheet. The wagon "looks" as if it has high rounded ends.

It's a tilt wagon and I guess it would be similar to this.

 

[Edwardian]

It's a treasure of a photograph and rare.

 

There are plenty of pictures, as has been said, of updated Rovers, more often than not hauling convertible coaches with SG bodies, but few of pure BG.

 

The topped hatted gentleman seems to fit late '50s to mid '60s. I'm tempted to assume his trousers are checked.   

[Compound2632]

36 minutes ago, Annie said:

Beyond 'Great Western Way' noting that Broad Gauge wagon sheets were thought to have been made from five lengths of canvas sewn together there's not a word about their actual size.

 

Well, the standard wagon sheet was made that way anyway, the 14' 4" width being a consequence of using five yard-wide pieces of canvas, with four 2" overlaps at the seams.

[Northroader]

It’s the wagons that are more interesting, (when you’ve seen one “Caesar” you’ve seen them all, say I, even if they were the most numerous b.g. engine). They’re both “bonnet end” types, opens with high curved ends. The leading one has the fitted sheet, tailored round the end, and supported on rods which pivot on a pin at each end, a bit like a pram hood. Usually the early iron bodied wagons were built with these. Nice idea, but could get damaged in the rough and tumble of goods train working, and so all the bonnet ends in later photos have ordinary sheets in what pictures there are. The second wagon shows the elegant curved side stanchions supporting the sides, so a wood body. You can see these in the Bourne engravings of Bristol goods shed, so an original. It’s got a loose wagon sheet over it. Then there’s a van, quite rare items in the 1850s, possibly one of the six wheelers down graded from carriages and used for brake vans?

Edited May 4, 2022 by Northroader

[Annie]

35 minutes ago, Compound2632 said:

Well, the standard wagon sheet was made that way anyway, the 14' 4" width being a consequence of using five yard-wide pieces of canvas, with four 2" overlaps at the seams.

Oops sorry I mistyped, - they were thought to have been made from FOUR lengths of canvas.

 

7 minutes ago, Northroader said:

The leading one has the fitted sheet, tailored round the end, and supported on rods which pivot on a pin at each end, a bit like a pram hood.

Like this.

 

41 minutes ago, Edwardian said:

It's a treasure of a photograph and rare.

Indeed it is James.

[Compound2632]

14 minutes ago, Annie said:

Oops sorry I mistyped, - they were thought to have been made from FOUR lengths of canvas.

 

Supposing 2 yd widths with 2" seams, a width of 23' 6", which would fit the round end of a 9' wide wagon with about 4' 6" hanging vertically on each side. That looks about right - noting that the second wagon is loaded well above its rounded ends.

[Annie]

That certainly makes sense.  A fairly large sheet to handle though.

[Compound2632]

2 minutes ago, Annie said:

That certainly makes sense.  A fairly large sheet to handle though.

 

The ordinary ones were big enough! But if you'd been to sea, they probably looked small enough.

 

 

[Ariel and Taeping, Jack Spurling (1870-1933), Public domain, via Wikimedia Commons.]

 

Though being tarred and hence stiffer than an ordinary sail no doubt made them hard work.

[MikeOxon]

7 hours ago, Annie said:

Afternoon Broad Gauge Cheer Up Picture:  Courtesy of the Broad Gauge Society, - 'Caesar' class engine 'Hecuba' with a goods train.  The photo is thought to have been taken late 1850s or early 1860s.

 

 

Best 'cheer up' yet 😀  Some interesting details, such as the way the smoke box door curves with the 'piano lid' front.  I wonder what occasion merited this photo of a working engine, not specially 'cleaned up'?

[MikeOxon]

1 hour ago, Northroader said:

The leading one has the fitted sheet, tailored round the end, and supported on rods which pivot on a pin at each end, a bit like a pram hood.

There's a specification for this 'pram hood' mechanism, known as 'Brotherhood's Patent Tilt Covers' in BGS Data File No.11, 2016, as follows:

 

"The ends to be semicircular, and the roof to be covered with Brotherhood’s Patent Tilt Covers, fitted in the most approved manner, and covered with No. 5 best long flax canvas. dressed with four coats of Brigg’s oil dressing."

 

They don't seem to have survived long in service.

[Annie]

1 hour ago, MikeOxon said:

They don't seem to have survived long in service.

It doesn't look like a particularly robust arrangement.

 

1 hour ago, Compound2632 said:

The ordinary ones were big enough! But if you'd been to sea, they probably looked small enough.

That's true.  That's a really terrific piece of artwork you posted by the way.

 

I have a few Broad Gauge photos where there are goods wagons to be seen, but they are always in the background and it isn't possible to see much.

 

Penzance.

Edited May 4, 2022 by Annie
can't spell for toffee

[MikeOxon]

9 minutes ago, Annie said:

It doesn't look like a particularly robust arrangement.

 

That's true.  That's a really terrific piece of artwork you posted by the way.

 

I have a few Broad Gauge photos where there are goods wagons to be seen, but they are always in the background and it isn't possible to see much.

 

Penzance.

 

In interesting trackwork with that convoluted cross-over of the narrow-gauge rail.

[Annie]

1 hour ago, MikeOxon said:

In interesting trackwork with that convoluted cross-over of the narrow-gauge rail.

Mine is a bit neater than that.  Not all that easy to do though.  I'm just glad that none of the trackwork is particularly complicated.

 

[Annie]

Morning Cheer Up Picture:  Eastlingwold's 'Jubilee' on a locomotive exchange?  No not quite.  This is a snap I took when I was doing engine spec testing on my Minehead branch layout as I'd been working on a new engine spec for Steve Flanders's 'Queen' class locomotive and I was curious to see how one of my Beyer-Peacock singles would cope.  In a word 'Jubilee' was not happy.  It's a lighter locomotive than a GWR 'Queen' class and the 'Queen' engine spec was too vigorous so that 'Jubilee' kept losing traction.  Once my brain is working properly again I'll do a revised version especially for my Beyer-Peacocks since they are very much the favourite engines in my collection.

 

[Annie]

Afternoon GWR Cheer Up Picture:  A new arrival at Didcot Railway Centre; -  A unique survivor, - a U 29 luggage tri-composite; 12 of which were built in 1886. 3rd, 1st, lugg, 2nd, 3rd.  Apparently it did the usual duty as a camping coach post grouping which no doubt aided its survival.

I have a big soft spot for tri-compt 6 wheelers so it's nice to know that at least one has survived into preservation. 

 

 

http://www.gwrcoaches.org.uk/Rdiags.shtml

 

My own U29 6w Tri-composite model.

 

Edited May 5, 2022 by Annie
added a picture, wrote more words