Annie's Virtual Pre-Grouping, Grouping and BR Layouts & Workbench

[Compound2632]

From the present day, "pre-grouping" denotes half the history of the public railways in Britain. From the point of view of the "traditional steam railway", it's also about half the history, if one sees 1889 as marking the point at which full maturity was reached and, operationally, comparatively little subsequently changed. Very little "pre-grouping" modelling ventures before 1900, if that - hardly a quarter of the "pre-grouping" period. 

[Edwardian]

4 hours ago, Compound2632 said:

From the present day, "pre-grouping" denotes half the history of the public railways in Britain. From the point of view of the "traditional steam railway", it's also about half the history, if one sees 1889 as marking the point at which full maturity was reached and, operationally, comparatively little subsequently changed. Very little "pre-grouping" modelling ventures before 1900, if that - hardly a quarter of the "pre-grouping" period. 

 

That final quarter is familiar ground, the equipment introduced then being extant in much of the Grouping and often the Nationalised eras.

 

I tend to think that the 'classic steam era railway' as featured in the memory banks of Baby Boomers, the pages of Rev. Awdry's Railway Series, and preserved on what are now called "Heritage" lines, is a thing quite different from the pre-1900 scene.

 

The 'classic steam era railway' starts to develop from the 1880s with such things as bogie coaches, continuous braking, the prevalence of bullhead rail etc, etc.  I always think that it's pretty much reached its mature phase by the 1910s, with features such as corridor coaches and the Edwardian loco profile pushing against the loading gauge now fairly common, and with a familiar permanent way, devoid of top-dressed ballast. Thenceforth, while equipment continues to grow progressively in length, heft and weight, the rate of change slows and in many instances the railway of, say, 1950 is recognisably the same as that of 1910. 

 

 

Model a period before, say, circa 1910, add one enters that other country where they do things differently.  Start travelling back through the 1880s and beyond and you begin to lose familiar aspects of railways from automatic braking and block signalling to enamel signs on station fences. As you go, the abundant photographic record starts to drop off alarmingly too.  When we do see a photograph, how many of us find a contrast between the station building, built in the 1840s, '50s and '60s, but still extant and thus familiar, and the train and the permanent way of that same period, which look entirely antiquated to our eyes? 

 

 

 

 

Edited April 30, 2022 by Edwardian
spelling

[Annie]

1 hour ago, Edwardian said:

Model a period before, say, circa 1910, add one enters that other country where they do things differently.  Start travelling back through the 1880s and beyond and you begin to lose familiar aspects of railways from automatic braking and block signalling to enamel signs on station fences. As you go, the abundant photographic record starts to drop off alarmingly too.  When we do see a photograph, how many of us find a contrast between the station building, built in the 1840s, '50s and '60s, but still extant and thus familiar, and the train and the permanent way of that same period, which look entirely antiquated to our eyes? 

And that other country where they do things differently is something that I find very appealing.  Difficulty with finding information can make attempting to model the 1880s and earlier a frustrating exercise though.  On the other hand the joy at finding that one essential photo that answers so many questions is something that I never get tired of.

[Northroader]

You could introduce a cutoff date for “modellers convenience” with pregroup, say around 1900. Before then you had small layout friendly trains, three axle tender locos and two or three 4/6 wheel coaches, then soon after Atlantics and 4-6-0s appeared with longer bogie coaches, and fitting them in on a model becomes a problem.

[Compound2632]

18 minutes ago, Northroader said:

 then soon after Atlantics and 4-6-0s appeared with longer bogie coaches, and fitting them in on a model becomes a problem.

 

... but only on the mainest of main lines, like the monster pacifics of the next generation. The 0-6-0 goods engine remained the most typical locomotive from 1860 to 1960.

[Hroth]

On 30/04/2022 at 18:06, Edwardian said:

 

As you go, the abundant photographic record starts to drop off alarmingly too.

 

 

The reason for this is that from the early 1850s to 1880*, the common photographic process was the wet plate system, where the negative was prepared by the photographer or his assistant minutes before making an exposure and had to be developed before drying out**. Most photographs were made by arty types producing aesthic work or hack professionals working in high street studios. What railway photographs that were made were commissioned by the companies themselves to record before and after developments or some technical innovation.

 

The abundancy started post 1880 when dry plate negatives were manufactured in commercial quantities, that would keep for months before use and could be left for days or weeks after exposure for development. This facility encouraged railway enthusiasts to go out with a box of negatives in their pocket for a days productive shooting.  The production of rollfilm in the late 1890s opened the floodgates.

 

It is entirely possible that in another hundred years, there will be an equal famine of the recorded image as digital photographs are just casually discarded or technical faults on servers causes wholesale losses*** and storage media decays or becomes obsolete.

 

* From 1839 to 1850 photographic images were produced using either the Daguerreotype method to produce a positive image on a senstised silvered copper plate, developed by mercury fumes, etc, or the Calotype which produced a negative image on a thin sheet of senstised paper.  Both had technical limitations, but the Calotype was the prototype for photography up to the digital era as the negative image could be reproduced freely by printing onto another sheet of sensitised paper.  However, both processes were best suited to subjects that would be static for a period of time and so railway photography was barely thought of as an appropriate use of resources.

 

** Roger Fentons Crimean War photographs were shot on wet plate, he toured the battlefields with a "portable" darkroom on a waggon to prepare and develop his negatives. His famous "Valley of Death" photographs were taken some time after the event...

 

*** Yes, an explicit reference to current circumstances!

 

Edited May 2, 2022 by Hroth
More thorts and an emphasis

[Northroader]

There’s a famine of recorded images in some places right now, chum.

[rocor]

With the model railway Era system, of the 11 eras, only 2 cover the period prior to 1923. There appears to be some contention as to the year that Era 1 - Pioneering, ends and Era 2 - Pre-grouping  begins. 

[Annie]

3 minutes ago, rocor said:

With the model railway Era system, of the 11 eras, only 2 cover the period prior to 1923. There appears to be some contention as to the year that Era 1 - Pioneering, ends and Era 2 - Pre-grouping  begins. 

The Era system seems to have been set up more for the convenience of RTR manufacturers rather than being of any really benefit to railway modellers though.

[rocor]

27 minutes ago, Annie said:

The Era system seems to have been set up more for the convenience of RTR manufacturers rather than being of any really benefit to railway modellers though.

 

Looking at the Era system, from a general railway modelling perspective rather than from that of a manufacturer, then they seemed to have missed an era.

 

Era - 0, horse-drawn tramways.

 

It is certainly possible that a modeller would wish to produce a static model of a pre-nineteen century horse-drawn tramway, an operational one, though, could provide a few difficulties to implement.

[Annie]

15 minutes ago, rocor said:

Looking at the Era system, from a general railway modelling perspective rather than from that of a manufacturer, then they seemed to have missed an era.

 

Era - 0, horse-drawn tramways.

That is one area where virtual model railways have the advantage as thanks to the work of a very talented modeller some years ago there is an animated horse model available for Trainz.  Fully implementing the horse does involve laying quite a bit of invisible trackwork though which can get a bit awkward.

[Regularity]

48 minutes ago, Annie said:

The Era system seems to have been set up more for the convenience of RTR manufacturers rather than being of any really benefit to railway modellers though.

Yes.

Started in (Continental) Europe,band based a lot on the various ownership arrangements of German railways, allowing for the major livery changes to provide some greater distinction between more recent memory.

 

I am not sure if it is for the convenience of the manufacturers, so much, as for the convenience of buyers who can’t be bothered to do a bit or research/reading up, which does ultimately benefit the manufacturers, I suppose.

 

To illustrate how awful it is, though, Hornby has Era 6 as “Pre-TOPS”, which covers 1957 (when dieselisation had barely started) to 1971, when diesels were blue. But TOPS numbering was introduced in 1973, and took a year or so to complete.

Era 7 (“TOPS”) covers 1971, 2 years before TOPS came into existence, to 1986. At the start of this period, the WR was still running a lot of diesel hydraulics, and by the end of it, the APT had been and gone, but they weren’t seen together…

 

If anyone asks me what era I am modelling, the answer is simple: 1904.

I give the same answer to “What Epoch?”

 

But I expect arguments: I have been accused of making up the EWJR, because the person asking what railway I was modelling hadn’t heard of it, and been told that, “You must be modelling the NBR, because you have interlaced sleepers instead of point timbers.” My interlocutor refused to accept that the other Scottish companies, the NER, The Furness, and many others also did this. Because he hadn’t read that anywhere.

[Annie]

47 minutes ago, Regularity said:

If anyone asks me what era I am modelling, the answer is simple: 1904.

I give the same answer to “What Epoch?”

Good on you for that.  I don't hold with that Epoch nonsense either.

 

48 minutes ago, Regularity said:

But I expect arguments: I have been accused of making up the EWJR, because the person asking what railway I was modelling hadn’t heard of it, and been told that, “You must be modelling the NBR, because you have interlaced sleepers instead of point timbers.” My interlocutor refused to accept that the other Scottish companies, the NER, The Furness, and many others also did this. Because he hadn’t read that anywhere.

When you consider the number of railway companies that were operating during the first decade of the 20th century you'd have to be a fair sort of railway historian to be able to name all of them.  Your interlocutor (is that a word meaning a very rude person?) would have had to have been downright bull headed to argue with the builder of a layout as to what railway company it actually represented.

[Edwardian]

OK, I'm going to say this only once for the benefit any manufacturers out there:

 

(1) The era system is crude, asinine, redundant and apt to be as misleading as it is helpful*; and,

 

(2) PUT A FECKING DATE RANGE IN THE DESCRIPTION OF EACH MODEL INSTEAD**. That does the same thing as the Era System only much, much better. Simples.

 

 

 

* Though it means I'm OK to run Rocket and the Stirling Single together!***

** The kind Enthusiast who did all the research for you for free can tell you what that is in each case!

*** Without even waiting to the 1930s (which is, of course, a different Era!)

 

[Northroader]

It would just be another thing for the hair splitting purists to argue over. Hey, Annie, I see NZ is open to foreigners again, just gotta win the pools now.

[Annie]

5 hours ago, Northroader said:

Hey, Annie, I see NZ is open to foreigners again, just gotta win the pools now.

Yes amidst a certain amount of controversy.  But apparently we have the latest XE COVID variant in the country now and there's talk of a new wave of infections peaking at the end of our Winter so the cork is well and truly out of the bottle now.  Tourism operators and hospitality businesses here are having hissy fits over all restrictions and flight pre-testing being removed, but that lot have pretty much shown that they don't care how many people get sick and die so long as they get their money.

Plenty of idiots here going around not wearing masks and bleating that it's safe to do so when it's not.  BUT don't get me stated on all that.  I have no intention of leaving the house or going anywhere for however long it takes.

[Annie]

Morning Broad Gauge Cheer Up picture:  Enough of silly nonsense about stupid people it's back to the Broad Gauge for me. 

No. 2020 ex-Bristol and Exeter Railway.

 

[MikeOxon]

17 hours ago, Annie said:

Plenty of idiots here going around not wearing masks and bleating that it's safe to do so when it's not. 

It's the same here - case rates are still high but there are no Government restrictions.  I know lots of people who have had COVID in the last few weeks but, in most cases, the effects were unpleasant but not serious.  The view here seems to be that we shall just have to put up with it, like flu, etc.

 

I'd love to re-visit NZ but current finances don't permit it.

[Annie]

38 minutes ago, MikeOxon said:

It's the same here - case rates are still high but there are no Government restrictions.  I know lots of people who have had COVID in the last few weeks but, in most cases, the effects were unpleasant but not serious.  The view here seems to be that we shall just have to put up with it, like flu, etc.

 

I'd love to re-visit NZ but current finances don't permit it.

I developed Chronic Fatigue Syndrome after a really bad dose of the 'flu almost 30 years ago now.  I don't think people realise that post viral syndrome is something that will drag on for months after recovering from COVID and the Long-COVID variant has side effects that will cause health issues for years to come.  We have idiots here going around saying that it's no worse than catching a cold, but it's not and even an apparently mild case of COVID can still cause serious health issues later on.

[CKPR]

Tell me about it! I've been unwell for 10 days now and positive since last Thursday and whilst the  cold /flu symptoms ebb and flow, the tiredness is debilitating and actually painful. Luckily, I work from home so I'm going to try to do a bit of work tomorrow and see how I feel. 

[Annie]

2 hours ago, CKPR said:

Tell me about it! I've been unwell for 10 days now and positive since last Thursday and whilst the  cold /flu symptoms ebb and flow, the tiredness is debilitating and actually painful. Luckily, I work from home so I'm going to try to do a bit of work tomorrow and see how I feel. 

You have my utmost sympathy.  I've been visited by fatigue and non-specific pain* for most of April and it's the pits.  This is something that I wouldn't wish onto anybody.  I'm supposed to be doing some wagon textures for the project that the creator group I belong to is doing, but I'm not having much luck with it.

 

*Non-specific pain is what doctors call it when they don't know what it is, but they feel better about it because they have a name for it.

 

Afternoon Broad Gauge Cheer Up Picture:  More ex-Bristol & Exeter steam power.

 

Edited May 3, 2022 by Annie
added a picture

[Annie]

Night Time Broad Gauge Cheer Up Picture:  Swindon Junction 1890-03.  I know I've posted this photo before, but I like it so you'll have to put up with it.

 

[Paleopotato09]

I'm rather new to the realm of pregrouping locomotives and other resources. What i'm mainly intrested in is how brightly coloured and well looked after everything was. 

[Compound2632]

55 minutes ago, Paleopotato09 said:

What i'm mainly intrested in is how brightly coloured and well looked after everything was. 

 

It's the lure that draws you in. In next to no time you'll find that you've joined a Line Society and are visiting the National Archives to scour your favoured company's Board Minutes for references to manure traffic.

[Edwardian]

33 minutes ago, Paleopotato09 said:

I'm rather new to the realm of pregrouping locomotives and other resources. What i'm mainly intrested in is how brightly coloured and well looked after everything was. 

 

Nowt wrong with so thinking!  

 

Welcome to the Dark Side .....