World's Worst Traffic Problems

[allan downes]

Ah! the same M80 that comes to a grinding halt between the M73 junction and Castlecary every day for no particular reason!  They spent millions on that road and achieved diddly squat.

 

Jim

 

 Sorry guys - wrong motorway.

 

Should have read M18O

[Legend]

Legend Said

 

"I think we really do need to look at the number of trucks on the road. I frequently see convoys of them on the M6. Can’t we give folk an incentive to ship by rail and really only use trucks for local deliveries . And shouldn’t we be restricting them from overtaking at all IE confine them to one lane.

 

That is a great idea, but if you confine trucks you end up with a multi engine train along with there respective drivers. and no rails.  

 

The other thing is that not all haulage company's  have the speed limiters to the same speed limit. Some are set to 5o > 52 MPH and others company's set there speed limiters to 56MPH.

 

It looks like that the government has made changes to the speed limits as of 6th April 2015. Link taken from the gov web site.  

https://www.gov.uk/speed-limits 

 

Terry

Interesting I’d often wondered why some go marginally faster than others. That explains it .

 

Yes I know effectively the inside lane would be a truck train but then at least the other two lanes are free . It might also drive home the point that it’s effectively a truck TRAIN. I know we are all to blame as we want good delivered ASAP , but I do wonder if you added an extra day on and it was reliable if we could get more goods off the road and onto rail, with local journeys from railheads. But it’s probably a utopian dream

[Kickstart]

Some are set at 50 mph and often lettered up say protecting the environment.... Yeah right saving fuel more like I think if they are not set to 56 mph they should be banned from motorway's and dual carriageways as its when others inch past them traffic problems arise

Not sure it saves anything at all fuel wise. Read a comment a while back concerning a transport manager wanting a lower speed limiter setting on the batch of truck they were ordering, and being told this would use more fuel as they were greatly optimised for 56mph.

 

Possibly more marketing related. And for companies selling to consumers, setting the speed limiter to (say) 52mph ensures that the lorry is unlikely to be the one in the overtaking lane and perceived by all their customers as being the problem.

 

Interesting I’d often wondered why some go marginally faster than others. That explains it .

A 4mph difference (56mph vs 52mph) would result in them passing quite quickly (ie, the difference in speed is that of a fast walk). Probably about 10 seconds to overtake, rather than the several minutes that is often the case (before now I have been in a queue stuck behind am HGV taking the best part of 10 miles to overtake).

 

The limiters will have a slight variation. Tyre wear, tyre pressure and load will like effect the limiter giving a small difference even for 2 lorries with nominally the same setting. And that will cause a problem if one decides to overtake the other.

 

Some lorry drivers complain that they are under pressure of time so need to overtake. But the difference on a (say) 300 mile journey between sitting at 55 and sitting at 56 is going to be about 5 minutes. The journey is going to be delayed far more than that due to stop start traffic triggered by other lorries ahead pulling out to overtake.

 

Katy

[allan downes]

Like the US, people here have a deep love affair with their car. It Doesn't necessarily have to be a Roller or an Aston, any old heap will attract equal attention out on the drive, Sunday morning then, once cleaned, what's the next move ? Head out for the nearest Motorway of  course and spend the rest of Sunday in gridlock hoping someone will admire your gleaming paint job but not necessarily the non existent wheel arches and ventilated sills.

 

Build an 8 lane motorway and within minutes of opening it will be gridlocked. Build a 12 lane motorway and all that will do is l attract all those that couldn't find room on the 8 lane motorway.

 

In other words "You build 'em. We'll fill 'em.

 

My contribution.

 

[jjb1970]

I solved this problem many years ago but sadly the intellectual pygmies that rule us were too small minded to appreciate the genius of my proposals to limit car use to those in the upper income tax bracket. Not only would this eliminate road congestion overnight, it'd incentivise people to work harder and make higher earner feel like they get something in return for all that dosh they donate to generous Phil Hammond or whatever his name is that oversees those threatening demands for cash these days. I didn't even get a reply to my letter to Gordon Brown when I suggested it, then they wonder why people become disillusioned with the political process. Madness!

[Nick C]

Suspect the cost of transferring from rail to road and back makes this uneconomical, and the extra time makes just in time deliveries would also be a problem.

 

While possible to incentivise this I suspect to make it worthwhile the incentive would need to be pretty massive.

 

Katy

 

Surely there's an obvious solution to the transhipment issue though - just have ro-ro trains in exactly the same fashion as the Channel Tunnel has been doing for 20-odd years...

 

Most of the main trunk lines have been updated to the larger European loading gauge now, so the larger size of the trains shouldn't be an issue, and add an RMB or RB to the rake and the lorry drivers can have a rest and a meal during the journey (which the hauliers will love, much fewer driver hours needed to get the stuff there). You could even add a couple of sleeper or couchette coaches and run long-haul trains through the tunnel to mainland Europe...

[DIW]

I solved this problem many years ago but sadly the intellectual pygmies that rule us were too small minded to appreciate the genius of my proposals to limit car use to those in the upper income tax bracket. Not only would this eliminate road congestion overnight, it'd incentivise people to work harder and make higher earner feel like they get something in return for all that dosh they donate to generous Phil Hammond or whatever his name is that oversees those threatening demands for cash these days. I didn't even get a reply to my letter to Gordon Brown when I suggested it, then they wonder why people become disillusioned with the political process. Madness!

 

Aha! I have unmasked you! You are Robin Cooper and I claim my £5 £9.99!

[allan downes]

The World's biggest recorded traffic jam ever was the 100 k long snarl up in Japan.

 

And these ain't just a mere trickle either !

 

https://www.youtube.com/results?search_query=+YOU+TUBEworlds+biggest+traffiv+

 

 

So, here's my question.

 

WHY, OH WHY, OH WHY do these people knowingly and seemingly willingly, drive hell bent into these situations ?

 

Talk about Tin God worship.

Edited March 6, 2018 by allan downes

[57xx]

My contribution.

 

 

Someone's been watching rust tutorials on YouTube again! As usual gone way overboard and produced something totally unrealistic. /s

[Paperlad]

Doha, Qatar, during the very short rainy season!

[allan downes]

Someone's been watching rust tutorials on YouTube again! As usual gone way overboard and produced something totally unrealistic. /s

 

 You call something unrealistic because it's covered in rust 57XX ?

 

Would that be about as totally unrealistic as your sense of humor ?

Edited March 6, 2018 by allan downes

[Kickstart]

Surely there's an obvious solution to the transhipment issue though - just have ro-ro trains in exactly the same fashion as the Channel Tunnel has been doing for 20-odd years...

 

Most of the main trunk lines have been updated to the larger European loading gauge now, so the larger size of the trains shouldn't be an issue, and add an RMB or RB to the rake and the lorry drivers can have a rest and a meal during the journey (which the hauliers will love, much fewer driver hours needed to get the stuff there). You could even add a couple of sleeper or couchette coaches and run long-haul trains through the tunnel to mainland Europe...

Are the channel tunnel lorry carrying rolling stock built to continental loading gauges, or so a larger loading gauge for the tunnel itself? Best I can see the tunnel itself is to standard continental loading gauge but not certain.

 

Either way, the main trunk lines only cover a fraction of the national network (and as best I can see very very little of it is to Berne gauge). Could easily be several hours of travel by lorry either side of the rail journey getting to and from a trunk route, and possibly well out of the way of a direct route.

 

Katy

[Nick C]

Are the channel tunnel lorry carrying rolling stock built to continental loading gauges, or so a larger loading gauge for the tunnel itself? Best I can see the tunnel itself is to standard continental loading gauge but not certain.

 

Either way, the main trunk lines only cover a fraction of the national network (and as best I can see very very little of it is to Berne gauge). Could easily be several hours of travel by lorry either side of the rail journey getting to and from a trunk route, and possibly well out of the way of a direct route.

 

Katy

 

But then the ideawouldn't be to try and get all of the lorries to use it - even if only some did it would help, surely? From my office window I can see the M3, with a huge stream of lorries going up it - mostly heading away from Southampton port towards London or the M25. (and there are even more go up the A34 towards the Midlands or the M4) If even half of those lorries could get on a train that took them to, for example, Watford, Reading or Birmingham, that'd save a huge amount of traffic. We have a country that is fundamentally long and thin, so the main trunk lines actually cover quite a lot of the probably destinations - especially as many lorries these days go to/from central hub warehouses...

[allan downes]

Chanel Tunnel on a good day.

 

[F-UnitMad]

But then the idea wouldn't be to try and get all of the lorries to use it - even if only some did it would help, surely? From my office window I can see the M3, with a huge stream of lorries going up it - mostly heading away from Southampton port towards London or the M25. (and there are even more go up the A34 towards the Midlands or the M4) If even half of those lorries could get on a train that took them to, for example, Watford, Reading or Birmingham, that'd save a huge amount of traffic. We have a country that is fundamentally long and thin, so the main trunk lines actually cover quite a lot of the probably destinations - especially as many lorries these days go to/from central hub warehouses...

In the time it took to load the train, the trucks could likely be at their destinations, or at least close.

 

I recall listening to one truck driver at Tesco's Daventry RDC/Rail  yard. He'd been waiting there four hours, to get a load tipped that was going to go on the train, to somewhere about 4 hours away.

 

People Railway Enthusiasts who see 'long convoys of lorries on the motorway', & suggest the "obvious" idea of putting them on rails as an ideal solution to traffic congestion are ignoring two important issues:-

1. Hardly any of those trucks will be going to exactly the same place; the flexibility of roads is that traffic can join & leave as it wants/when it has to.

2. A lot of, if not most, cities these days do not have any facilities or goods yards for handling freight trains. Big yards would have to be built first to handle these 'truck trains', and they'd be well out of town these days, so the trucks would still have to use motorways and main roads to get to their destinations...

[kevinlms]

In the time it took to load the train, the trucks could likely be at their destinations, or at least close.

 

I recall listening to one truck driver at Tesco's Daventry RDC/Rail  yard. He'd been waiting there four hours, to get a load tipped that was going to go on the train, to somewhere about 4 hours away.

 

People Railway Enthusiasts who see 'long convoys of lorries on the motorway', & suggest the "obvious" idea of putting them on rails as an ideal solution to traffic congestion are ignoring two important issues:-

1. Hardly any of those trucks will be going to exactly the same place; the flexibility of roads is that traffic can join & leave as it wants/when it has to.

2. A lot of, if not most, cities these days do not have any facilities or goods yards for handling freight trains. Big yards would have to be built first to handle these 'truck trains', and they'd be well out of town these days, so the trucks would still have to use motorways and main roads to get to their destinations...

In that regard, nothing has changed in a century and a half.

 

There are heaps of photos of places like Toton & South Wales, where full coal wagons, were stored in rows as far as the eye could see!

[F-UnitMad]

In that regard, nothing has changed in a century and a half.

 

There are heaps of photos of places like Toton & South Wales, where full coal wagons, were stored in rows as far as the eye could see!

Indeed. In one of my favourite books, "Behind the Lines" by Christopher Burton, he tells of when, in the 1950s, a Black Country Coal Merchant ("Jagger") was waiting for his wagon of coal to arrive, & the fuss and trouble that mounted as the days passed without it being delivered. The merchant found out that his wagon was at Wednesbury, and went to try and find it; it was buried in the middle of the yard somewhere, and he didn't get it for yet more days.

Where had this wagon come from?  A colliery in CANNOCK !!! About 15 miles away!!!

Such delays are just incredible, and a sad indictment of just how inefficient the railways had become. Once road lorries could cover a decent distance, freight in 'small' quantities would be lost from the railways for good. 

 

EDIT: The humourous rider to the story was that Wednesbury Goods phoned up Mr Burton at his yard (West Bromwich IIRC) and asked if he could kindly keep his moaning Coal Jaggers to himself, as they had plenty of their own to deal with!!

Edited March 14, 2018 by F-UnitMad

[allan downes]

 Something similar when buying a 'new' car.

 

So, just How new is that new car that maybe you're thinking of buying ?

 

[Mark Saunders]

 Something similar when buying a 'new' car.

 

So, just How new is that new car that maybe you're thinking of buying ?

 

 

It has been the same for many of the mass produced vehicles for as long as I can remember and when the manufacturers discounts are available it tends to mean overstock and things are really bad when plants go on reduced hours!

 

I had a Rover 25 that had stood for a while as there were traces of green where the valeting had failed around the side windows!

[Sidecar Racer]

Want to buy a new Honda ?

 

https://www.google.co.uk/maps/@51.5222432,-2.6758419,421a,35y,237.79h,44.83t/data=!3m1!1e3

[allan downes]

The question is.

 

Can you ACTUALLY buy a new car?

 

I bought a new Nissan Micra one where I was informed that our car was in the process of being built in their Sunderland Plant and would be available for collection in two weeks..

 

Now did that really mean that it was being put together in the middle of a field somewhere and would take two weeks to fish it ?

Edited March 14, 2018 by allan downes

[Kickstart]

But then the ideawouldn't be to try and get all of the lorries to use it - even if only some did it would help, surely? From my office window I can see the M3, with a huge stream of lorries going up it - mostly heading away from Southampton port towards London or the M25. (and there are even more go up the A34 towards the Midlands or the M4) If even half of those lorries could get on a train that took them to, for example, Watford, Reading or Birmingham, that'd save a huge amount of traffic. We have a country that is fundamentally long and thin, so the main trunk lines actually cover quite a lot of the probably destinations - especially as many lorries these days go to/from central hub warehouses...

How many could be transferred usefully? And if you landed up with those lorries all descending onto a few transshipment yards then there would be a lot of extra traffic in a few areas which would really be clogged up.

 

Time wise, from Southampton to Birmingham is going to take 2~3 hours for an HGV. Time which is probably less than the time taken to transship onto a suitable train (waiting for it, loading, waiting to depart, waiting to unload) at best, let alone the time taken to travel by rail.

 

Katy

[Sir TophamHatt]

I have to say I think a large part of it is HGVs ...one travelling at 50mph tries to overtake another going at 48mph effectively blocking two lanes of the motorway for a period of time .

While I sort of agree, the problem is people - once agian.

 

There's a stretch of the M1 around Nottingham that as you travel north, you round a bend, head down a huge hill and on the right is a new Co-Op building - the view is pretty nice coming down the hill.

 

But I see people, nearly all the time I visit this area, who don't pull over. They'll sit in the 3rd lane (of 4 or 5 lanes!) and there won't be anything they're overtaking.

 

I undertake when it's clear the person isn't going to pull over.

Perhaps people think "you're just as bad as them" - I'm not, I just can't be bothered to pull all the way out, to pull all the way back in again.

 

Said it before elsewhere but I could easily pay my own salary back within months if I had a police car and the authority to pull people doing over 80mph, or whatever-lane hoggers over and fine them.

 

Fines, and big ones is the only way people will learn.

Seems to work with Indian railways...

Add a 0 on to every fine and push stuff out in the media saying they're taking action and people will start conforming.

[Kickstart]

But I see people, nearly all the time I visit this area, who don't pull over. They'll sit in the 3rd lane (of 4 or 5 lanes!) and there won't be anything they're overtaking.

Doesn't help a increasing number of signs seem to be around saying not to change lanes.

 

Particularly annoying are the ones for road works saying which lane to use for different things, and to not change lanes! If you can't change lanes then what the lanes are for is pretty irrelevant

 

Katy

[28XX]

Until some curb is put on the level of population increase both from immigration and procreation, this problem will never be solved. Since tackling either issue is political suicide, continuing congestion, road building, house building and even railway building are forecast for centuries to come.