Bachmann Class 117

[MJI]

If a manufacturer produced an accurate 116 and 118 then went to 117 as well, people with 116 and 118 would prefer same make for matching reasons.

 

Since a 117 looks like a 118 with different cab roofs, easy to do.

 

This is what Bachman should be thinking of

[Rivercider]

There were 117s in South Wales. However I have seen a photo somewhere of one with a 116 centre car. Obviously 116 were much more common. What time period where you thinking of?

The RCTS BR Coaching Stock 1980 book shows five Cardiff sets C450-C454 were formed 117/116/117.

Here is set C451 in 1980:-

 

Set C451 is approaching Taffs Well on a Cardiff to Treherbert working, 28/11/80.

I did not record the vehicle numbers that day, but the RCTS book gives 51338, 59371, 51380.

 

cheers 

[BR Blue]

Yes. C450 rings a bell. Thanks for posting the picture.

[EddieK]

Without getting mired in the different shades of green in the earlier days of DMUs, both 116s and 117s appeared in variants of unlined green  with whiskers, lined green with whiskers, lined green with small yellow panel, (probably some other permutations of green livery), plain blue, refurbished "blue stripe" and blue/grey. 

Noting that Bachmann did a special edition  of (supposedly) a Class 107 that was really a 108 in Strathclyde livery, and that was quite wide of the mark, then passing the 117 off as a 118 is a possibility. 

This then adds liveries over and above the 116 of NSE light, NSE dark, GW 150 Chocolate and Cream, Telecom yellow and Regional Railways.

Across their life span, the 117s (and 118s) operated over near enough every part of the English area of the WR except Birmingham (see below), also the Cardiff area (though with 116 centre cars), also over the SR to Gatwick and Tonbridge, the Barking line, the St Albans branch, the Bedford branch, and they did reach Birmingham on WR services via Stourbridge certainly in the early 1980s. By the time of the great DMU cascade of the mid 1980s, when 117s and 118s were allocated to Tyseley, most of the Tyseley 116 fleet had been disrupted from the orderly triple sets of the past into matched power cars with non-116 trailers, mixed-up go-slower four car sets, triple sets with two brake vans or hybrid twin sets of e.g. 116 car + 101 car. The 117 and 118 sets were still formed as per the "text book". At this time, the Tyseley DMU allocation gained workings to exotic places such as Skegness, allowing 117/118s to venture across the Midlands. And then some went to Scotland as well. 

 

It would not surprise me to see GW150 models or even Telecom yellow ones at some point.....

[iwfb]

I would think a GW 150 liveried example was a dead cert - the real one was a '117. 

[The Johnster]

Worth reminding people, though, that 117/8s were not deployed in South Wales until very late in dmu days, and even then were the exception rather than the rule favouring 116s.  Occasional visits from Bristol and later the West Midlands were made to Cardiff Central, or as excursions, from quite early days, especially after the sets were gangwayed, as they were useful for main line work at a push with their lavatories, but the 'Valley Lines' did not see them until very late in the day.

[BR Blue]

As mention earlier in the thread there were some South Wales 117s but with 116 centre cars. I am not sure when they first appeared but they lasted at about 10 years at a guess?

Edited April 18, 2018 by BR Blue

[EddieK]

At the very end of Valley Lines DMUs, one or two 118 sets joined the Canton fleet, displaced from Devon and Cornwall by the new "Skipper" Class 142 units. They gained the Valley Train branding and red chevrons, too. Admittedly, the DMU type most associated with South Wales is the 116, obviously with support from 119 and 120 Cross Country sets.

Edited April 19, 2018 by EddieK

[chrisf]

As mention earlier in the thread there were some South Wales 117 but with 116 centre cars. I am not sure when they first appeared but they last at about 10 years at a guess?

 

1976 - 1983.

 

Chris

[BR Blue]

Thanks Chris. Not quite as long as I thought.

[ba14eagle]

"It would not surprise me to see GW150 models or even Telecom yellow ones at some point....."

 

These have been mentioned as limited editions by Kernow Model Centre

[brushman47544]

"It would not surprise me to see GW150 models or even Telecom yellow ones at some point....."

 

These have been mentioned as limited editions by Kernow Model Centre

 

The Telecom set was a 118, with domed headcode boxes.

[Rivercider]

I managed to see most of the South Wales, Cardiff Canton allocated class 117/116/117 sets, and took photos of varying quality.

 

The RCTS Coaching stock books for 1980 and 1981 lists five sets.

C450 51334 59031 51376

C451 51338 59371 51380

C452 51339 59446 51382

C453 51348 59340 51390

C454 51352 59359 51394

 

The Platform 5 Summer 1982 edition lists just one set

C450 51352 59359 51394

 

The Platform 5 Spring 1983 edition lists one set, (the same vehicles with a different set number)

C454 51352 59359 51394.

 

Here are some photos, including a dodgy instamatic effort.

C450 at Pontypridd, 3/11/81

 

C451 at Taffs Well 28/11/80

 

C452 at Pontypridd, 10/9/79

 

C454 at Rhymney in refurbished livery, 22/5/80 (I noted the vehicle numbers this day, they confirm the published numbers)

 

C454 at Pontypridd, by now in blue and grey, 3/11/81

 

cheers 

 

 

 

 

Edited April 19, 2018 by Rivercider

[EddieK]

The Telecom set was a 118, with domed headcode boxes.

In my post above I noted that Bachmann have passed off a 108 as a 107 so as to produce a limited edition in Strathclyde colours, so the existence of a 117 could offer the opportunity to pass it off as a 118. Less inaccurate than making a 107 from a 108.

[Covkid]

In my post above I noted that Bachmann have passed off a 108 as a 107 so as to produce a limited edition in Strathclyde colours, so the existence of a 117 could offer the opportunity to pass it off as a 118. Less inaccurate than making a 107 from a 108.

 

Particularly if a third party 3D printer were to offer a nifty little printed piece, to glue on the top of the 117 head code box !!!

[89A]

 

I couldn't resist posting this taken at Broadway yesterday.

The rear DMBS was in BR Blue with FYE.

 

[sc2016]

It would not surprise me to see GW150 models or even Telecom yellow ones at some point.....

 

I would think a GW 150 liveried example was a dead cert - the real one was a '117. 

 

Kernow Model Rail Centre is doing the GW150 liveried Class 117 as an exclusive. The Item Code is: 35-500Z. 

[Clive Mortimore]

Particularly if a third party 3D printer were to offer a nifty little printed piece, to glue on the top of the 117 head code box !!!

Or a slice of plastic card and run a file over it to round it off.

 

It would take longer to draw in 3D than to make in plastic card.

[The Johnster]

Or just shape it up freehand out of milliput or similar.  I 'blended' the new destination panel box into the cabs of the Lima 117 I converted to 116 many years ago, and it looks pretty good though I say so myself.

[Covkid]

Particularly if a third party 3D printer were to offer a nifty little printed piece, to glue on the top of the 117 head code box !!!

 

 

Or a slice of plastic card and run a file over it to round it off.

 

It would take longer to draw in 3D than to make in plastic card.

 

 

Or just shape it up freehand out of milliput or similar.  I 'blended' the new destination panel box into the cabs of the Lima 117 I converted to 116 many years ago, and it looks pretty good though I say so myself.

 

Absolutely fine for accomplished modellers like yourselves, but I was thinking ;

a) for less handy people

b) firms like Shawplan

 

Just because you would feel happy to file up a rounded headcode box doesn't mean to say that others can. And who are you to say that Brian couldn't knock out a pair of curved  headcode box tops for say £7.50 a pop for modellers who are happy to pay.

[Clive Mortimore]

Absolutely fine for accomplished modellers like yourselves, but I was thinking ;

a) for less handy people

b) firms like Shawplan

 

Just because you would feel happy to file up a rounded headcode box doesn't mean to say that others can. And who are you to say that Brian couldn't knock out a pair of curved  headcode box tops for say £7.50 a pop for modellers who are happy to pay.

Hi Covkid

 

I am not an accomplished modeller. I am an average modeller. Yes I have achieved to build some stuff I wanted and wasn't at the time available. I only done that by having ago. It resulted in me having something I could call mine and enjoying how I got there. Have ago at something, and the more goes you have the better you will become. 

[dibber25]

The difference in shape is so subtle that I doubt an extra part could be made thin enough. If it could, the glue that holds it in place would make it too thick! I tiny bit of appropriate plastic filler/ putty would do the job. (CJL)

[royaloak]

Or just shape it up freehand out of milliput or similar.  I 'blended' the new destination panel box into the cabs of the Lima 117 I converted to 116 many years ago, and it looks pretty good though I say so myself.

Something I would be more than happy to do on a £30 Lima 117 but most certainly not on a £300 Bachmann 117.

[The Johnster]

I'm certainly not an accomplished modeller as anyone familiar with my work will testify, more an inveterate bodger whose standards are low to accommodate the bodges.  But I try, and if I want something that is not available out of a box, I will have a go at making it by either scratch, kit, or working up a model that did come out of a box.  There is a bit of a vagueness about the line between 'superdetailing', adding fire irons, etched lamp irons and numberplates, crew and so on, and alteration.  

 

But I do see the difference between attacking a £30 LIma which needed a bit of work on it to make it a decent model even if you retained it as a 117, and a £300 Bachmann which probably cuts the mustard as a 117 without any extra work.  I would point out, though, that cobbling up a dome for the headcode panel to provide a 118, and some early 117s apparently, is not an irreversible process; should it not look right, it can be removed and another attempt made, or left off and the alteration abandoned.  This is easy modelling with no unpleasant consequences, and does not require a high entry level of skillsets to attempt.  It is the sort of thing that is inevitable when you want to 'progress' from basic RTR, which is itself inevitable if you want to model something not available that way.

 

None of my stock, all RTR these days, is as it came out of the box, even if the difference is only a coat of light weathering to tone them in, or a dab of white paint on the end of a wagon handbrake lever.  This is so that they look more like real railway vehicles; it is not to upset collectors.

 

Honest, guv.

Edited April 23, 2018 by The Johnster

[BigAndy]

In my post above I noted that Bachmann have passed off a 108 as a 107 so as to produce a limited edition in Strathclyde colours, so the existence of a 117 could offer the opportunity to pass it off as a 118. Less inaccurate than making a 107 from a 108.

 

One of me pet peeves is that Eddie.......107 indeed.........nothing like a 107.........

 

cheers

 

Andy

Edited April 23, 2018 by BigAndy