GTR Timetable Change 2018

[phil-b259]

The sale of 'GWR unused electrification equipment'  is a fact.  NR put out for tender the disposal as scrap of 1,000 tonnes of structural steel led in store at Wroughton Airfield for the GWML electrification project; presumably it was intended for use on the two sections through to Bristol TM which have been 'deferred' nothwithstanding quite a lot of the associated works having been completed.

 

PS And in the meantime there is dotted about those sections which have been electrified a noticeable quantity of unused material - principally foundation pile tubes - which gives the impression of it being left on site to rot.

It might well be a 'NR fact' but you need to see that against a sustained campaign by HM Treasuary for NR to 'cur costs / become more efficient / give maximum possible returns for the taxpayer / cut down on waste / etc.

 

I would be quite willing to bet there are persons within Network who would love to have kept the stuff in storage and used its exsistance to make it easier to resume small scale electrification extensions in future - but that does not fit with the ideas of HM Treasuary who think long term = the end of the next financial year (or certainly before the next general election).

[uax6]

But what I'm guessing is happening to the smaller electrification stores that are being offered is that someone (maybe the original suppliers?) will buy them for scrap price, and then sell them back to NR at full whack again...

 

Its a completely daft way to carry on, but accountants rule these days, and they must be right...

 

Andy G

[phil-b259]

.

 

I'd personally love to know the statistics of how many people travel from Brighton to, say, Cambridge on a daily basis as a regular commute.  I haven't seen much advantage in the new services at all really.

Not many - certainly nothing close to justifying a 12 car train.

 

....BUT....

 

The justification is that there are certain overlapping journeys that make it more efficient to run a through service than forcing people to treat between London TerminI

 

For example Stevenage to Gatwick or East Croydon are likely to be areas with considerably more travellers than Cambridge - Brighton. Then there is the aspect that for persons from Sussex wanting to catch a MML or ECML service, taking a Thameslink directly to Kings Cross avoids negotiating London Underground's Victoria Line.

 

Longer term, when the Elizabeth line opens Stevenage to Heathrow via Farringdon presents an attractive option.

 

In any case thanks to the lack of 12 car platforms at Kings. Cross, a chronic platform shortage at St Pancras high level, London Bridge having lost terminating platforms and the Bermondsey flyover plugging Thameslink into the BML fast lines, there isn't any other realistic solution.

 

As has been commented on before, while the old Irish proverb of "I wouldn't start from here if I were you" may well accurately describe people's feelings about the complexity / reach of the Thaneskink service patten, the brutal truth is the die was cast well over 30 years ago when British Rail decided to focus on linking the MML to the Sussex Coast rather than keeping it a metro setup terminating close to London.

[BR(S)]

The bottom line is that the GTR franchise is far too big and complex, and you're mixing too many short commuter services and long distance services together with the complexity of straight through cross-London tube style frequency services.

 

I'd personally love to know the statistics of how many people travel from Brighton to, say, Cambridge on a daily basis as a regular commute.  I haven't seen much advantage in the new services at all really.

 

The statistics for end-to-end travel, such as Cambridge to Brighton, Bedford to Brighton or Luton to Sutton aren't really the important bit.  Of more use would be the usefulness of the service for where commuters need to get from where they start.  So, for example, do people feel that being able to get from Cambridge (a significant commuting town) to Blackfriars in one go rather than changing at King's Cross is more useful, coupled with statistics on how many do this (plus all the other possible combinations)?  And remembering that Thameslink also serves two major airports and the Eurostar terminus, what is the usefulness for leisure and business travellers accessing those?  

 

This kind of thing will only be seen over time, and can be changed as the data develops.  While the frustration at the current muck-up is fully understandable, we can't really use any of it to decide how useful or efficient the full timetable that we will eventually see might be, as it just hasn't happened in any recognisable form.  Once we do, it can be modified accordingly if needs be (and I personally think it will need to be); that might also include reducing the 24 trains per hour through the "core".  

 

I am interested to know what the last six weeks have done to future passenger numbers.  Anecdotal evidence suggests commuters have been forced to find alternatives such as working from home or car-sharing; while this might have been seen to be a pain pre-May 20th, they might have found it wasn't as bad as they thought, which could be bad news for the railway.  Or, once a reliable service starts running again, will people soon forget about the last few weeks and return to normal rail use? 

 

One positive that might come out of all this: after experience of the constant unpredictability of the last six weeks, maybe a few train delays per week of 15 minutes or even the occasional wires-down incident might not seem quite so bad any more!!     

Edited July 1, 2018 by BR(S)

[Zomboid]

There is also the question, do GTR actually want to have the franchise taken off them?

They don't have the franchise. It's a management contract where all the decisions of any consequence are taken by the DfT. They're employed to shield the government from the consequences of their actions.

[The Great Bear]

 

 

I'd personally love to know the statistics of how many people travel from Brighton to, say, Cambridge on a daily basis as a regular commute.  I haven't seen much advantage in the new services at all really.

And would you really want to be in a 700 that long, no table, no charging, no wifi, uncomfortable seats...

[Mike Storey]

Re-stated from the Windermere thread - superb multiple articles in Rail magazine, in the current and the last issue, which expose the multiple reasons in much greater detail and context, than anything I have read so far, and point fingers far wider than GTR, and not just at NR. Well worth the cover price for both editions, if you want to be better informed.

[The Stationmaster]

They don't have the franchise. It's a management contract where all the decisions of any consequence are taken by the DfT. They're employed to shield the government from the consequences of their actions.

 

It is actually described, believe it or not, as a franchise agreement (I checked it recently and was amazed to find that word used).  But it is an unusual one in that all the revenue goes direct to DafT, there is (as we all know) very considerable DafT micromanagement of the 'franchise' and there are various performance measures set by DafT which influence the monies paid to or required from the 'franchise' holder.  In reality the term 'franchise' is little more than a smoke screen for a tightly controlled contract to operate the train service.

[scouser]

I suppose you could lead by example. Tell us what your salary is and what you do, and we’ll see if we can find a few newspaper hacks to give us a running commentary on how everything is your fault, before we discuss among ourselves whether or not you’re over-paid?

The man fell on his sword, ffs. How many pints of blood do you want?

Paul

Oh for goodness sake! Nobody fell on his sword, when you take a top job the brickbats and the plaudits go to that top over payed person.

And yes that pay packet is over pay!

If you take a job like this and screw it up then the journalists can and should jump all over you.

Think how much this man has received during the time he has performed this role. If you want to show sympathy then show it to the people who have been messed about for years by the company run by this bloke.

If he feels abused then he will be doing so in comfort!

Don't try and pick on people who complain about the overpaid failures!

[Fenman]

Oh for goodness sake! Nobody fell on his sword, when you take a top job the brickbats and the plaudits go to that top over payed person.

And yes that pay packet is over pay!

If you take a job like this and screw it up then the journalists can and should jump all over you.

Think how much this man has received during the time he has performed this role. If you want to show sympathy then show it to the people who have been messed about for years by the company run by this bloke.

If he feels abused then he will be doing so in comfort!

Don't try and pick on people who complain about the overpaid failures!

 

Ah, so in your world what is sauce for the goose is not sauce for the gander, then? How dispiriting. Still, I suppose it always makes us all feel better to administer a good kicking to someone who can act as the scapegoat.

 

Paul

[justin1985]

Things seem to continue to get worse, rather than better. From East Croydon it is now routine to have gaps between northbound Thameslink trains of around 40 minutes (e.g. 9.45 to 10.21) - in the May timetable there were no fewer than FIVE trains in that gap

 

In addition to all those vanished trains, cancellations this week have been even worse than the last few weeks. I've experienced several 50 minute gaps in service at the shoulders of the peaks, and there have also been a lot of high peak cancellations this week (over and above the trains vanished from the timetable).

 

This is WAY worse than the Thameslink service at even its lowest ebb during the rebuild. Plus factor in the fact that the vast majority of the London Bridge fast terminating trains are gone. So the gaps in service aren't only to the Thameslink core stations, but to London Bridge as well.

 

I really can't get my head around how it can continue to get worse. If drivers are being progressively trained, surely it should be getting gradually better as more sign the route?

 

Justin

Edited July 4, 2018 by justin1985

[scouser]

Ah, so in your world what is sauce for the goose is not sauce for the gander, then? How dispiriting. Still, I suppose it always makes us all feel better to administer a good kicking to someone who can act as the scapegoat.

 

Paul

What are you talking about? There is no similarity between an overpaid failure who has been responsable for causing thousands of people endless hassle for years and somebody complaining about that situation.

Telling the complainant to stop complaining is just wrong. I know the politicians share responsibility he should have stud up to them.

Anyway what kind of sauce should one use with goose?

Paul

Edited July 4, 2018 by scouser

[Fenman]

What are you talking about? There is no similarity between an overpaid failure who has been responsable for causing thousands of people endless hassle for years and somebody complaining about that situation.

Telling the complainant to stop complaining is just wrong. I know the politicians share responsibility he should have stud up to them.

Anyway what kind of sauce should one use with goose?

Paul

What are you talking about?

 

What sort of sauce should one use with a scapegoat? Gloating about someone’s misery seems to be the order of the day.

 

Paul

[Darius43]

What are you talking about? There is no similarity between an overpaid failure who has been responsable for causing thousands of people endless hassle for years and somebody complaining about that situation.

Telling the complainant to stop complaining is just wrong. I know the politicians share responsibility he should have stud up to them.

Anyway what kind of sauce should one use with goose?

Paul

The phrase:”Don’t feed the trolls” springs to mind reading your exchange with Fenman.

 

Darius

[cromptonnut]

May I remind everyone that Charles Horton was CEO of Connex when it ran the service covered by the "Southern" part of the franchise, and he did an equally admirable job running that.

[John M Upton]

Disruption Code Black this morning.  Signalling has been completely down at Streatham Common since late last night.

 

If you want to travel to/from Victoria today, I'd forget it if I were you.  The Sutton Loop Thameslink's are also up the spout as well.

[roundhouse]

Also most Thameslink are aswell but nothing new there.

 

Luckily the 06.59 off Redhill was running so dropped my other half off for that one but it was very busy apparently. She may well come home early and work from home, at least she is able to do that.

Edited July 5, 2018 by roundhouse

[locoholic]

Disruption Code Black this morning.  Signalling has been completely down at Streatham Common since late last night.

 

If you want to travel to/from Victoria today, I'd forget it if I were you.  The Sutton Loop Thameslink's are also up the spout as well.

I presume Chris Grayling will expect GTR to take the rap for this latest fiasco, even though its Network Rail's job to do the signals?!

 

I feel so sorry for the commuters, and so glad I gave that lark up in Network South East days.

[Claude_Dreyfus]

Yet oddly enough, the Southern services to London Bridge had little impact. My train arrived about ten minutes late (due to an additional stop at Gatwick to pick up passengers from Victoria services curtailed there). I suspect, however,it will he a different story tonight.

 

Unfortunately the Thameslink issues mean that my normal train home - the 18:03 from London Bridge - has an additional stop at Redhill. Not an particularly welcome addition as it effectively pulls the train into the path of the following Arun Valley train from Victoria...which runs just after 10 minutes behind. As ours has become a splitter (bearing in mind the ridership of this service, a totally unnecessary change (the vast majority of passengers don't use the service beyond the Arun Valley)), and the following train is a Bognor direct, the Redhill stop has caused all manner of issues further down the line. Particularly at Horsham.

 

Still, a silver lining. I have put in a delay repay for almost every day for the last fortnight!

[John M Upton]

Apparently the signalling panel has failed, now expected to be shut until tomorrow morning.

 

And I am the late cover man tonight....

[flapland]

Apparently the signalling panel has failed, now expected to be shut until tomorrow morning.

 

And I am the late cover man tonight....

 

I can't even pretend to know how tough thats going to be. Hopefully your colleagues will sort it early than expected. 

[roundhouse]

Yet oddly enough, the Southern services to London Bridge had little impact. My train arrived about ten minutes late (due to an additional stop at Gatwick to pick up passengers from Victoria services curtailed there). I suspect, however,it will he a different story tonight.

 

Unfortunately the Thameslink issues mean that my normal train home - the 18:03 from London Bridge - has an additional stop at Redhill. Not an particularly welcome addition as it effectively pulls the train into the path of the following Arun Valley train from Victoria...which runs just after 10 minutes behind. As ours has become a splitter (bearing in mind the ridership of this service, a totally unnecessary change (the vast majority of passengers don't use the service beyond the Arun Valley)), and the following train is a Bognor direct, the Redhill stop has caused all manner of issues further down the line. Particularly at Horsham.

 

Still, a silver lining. I have put in a delay repay for almost every day for the last fortnight!

Up till my ticket ran out yesterday we have tried to do the delay repays but its got so complicated for  £2 refund that we havent done many of them with my other half particularly bad at applying. We have generally been catching the Tattneham Corner services then 405 bus form Coulsdon Town to avoid overcrowded services when they actually do run.

 

Occasionally the 17.33 Eastbourne service has been shown as diverted to call at Redhill but even then they have then cancelled the Redhill stop, so no services for some time on many days.

 

However with the issues today it will be intersting what does run via Redhill this evening and how my other half gets home.

[The Lurker]

Up till my ticket ran out yesterday we have tried to do the delay repays but its got so complicated for  £2 refund that we havent done many of them with my other half particularly bad at applying. We have generally been catching the Tattneham Corner services then 405 bus form Coulsdon Town to avoid overcrowded services when they actually do run.

 

Occasionally the 17.33 Eastbourne service has been shown as diverted to call at Redhill but even then they have then cancelled the Redhill stop, so no services for some time on many days.

 

However with the issues today it will be intersting what does run via Redhill this evening and how my other half gets home.

I never used to do the delay repays on my SE ticket until I spoke to a colleague who was commuting in from Eastbourne who was making regular claims - and now I do. I have found the online reclaims relatively straightforward; scan in my ticket and save it on the drive until it runs out, attach it each claim. Fortunately southeastern have been relatively good for the past few months and I am only making a claim every 3 or 4 weeks on average....

[jjb1970]

I always claim, the claim procedure is very simple for the TOCs I use and even the 15 minute claims add up.

[Claude_Dreyfus]

Most certainly...especially given the fun and games we have had over the last few weeks. I have literally had hundreds of pounds back via the delay repay scheme over the last couple of years.