GTR Timetable Change 2018

[Steamport Southport]

Will park this here and add no comment https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/business-44415339

 

Comes with the territory though, doesn't it?

 

 

I bet that Tim Farron (who's complaining) got some sort of "honour" or massive pay off after he failed in his job. He'll probably end up in the House Of Lords at some point like all the other failed politicians from all sides.

 

 

 

 

Jason

[Steamport Southport]

The one thing I will say about GT is I don't think much of their new livery. 

 

 

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/av/uk-england-beds-bucks-herts-44411995/graffiti-thugs-vandalise-17m-govia-thameslink-train

 

 

 

Posted as a bit of levity. Not to condone mindless vandalism.

 

 

 

Jason

[roundhouse]

Isn't it rather strange that Grayling is naming NR and Tocs for the mess but his same Govt are awarding the boss of NR for servicees to the country.

Today we visited the IOW. The ticket cost considerably more to go via Guildford than via Horsham but here us the reason why we paid more

[great central]

Heard something recently which may help explain the ongoing issues.

Out of a certain depots compliment of drivers only 10% were trained either on the new stock or routes at the time the changes took place!!

[Zomboid]

Isn't it rather strange that Grayling is naming NR and Tocs for the mess but his same Govt are awarding the boss of NR for servicees to the country.

Today we visited the IOW. The ticket cost considerably more to go via Guildford than via Horsham but here us the reason why we paid more

SWR seem to be using a different clock to Southern. That might be part of the problem - if train companies can't even agree what the time is, then there's no hope for trains running at the right time...

[cromptonnut]

Heard something recently which may help explain the ongoing issues.

Out of a certain depots compliment of drivers only 10% were trained either on the new stock or routes at the time the changes took place!!

 

Most likely Horsham.  The Horsham services through Redhill have gone over to Thameslink now, and go up to Peterborough.  It's been badly affected on those trains due to lack of driver knowledge.

[BR(S)]

Heard something recently which may help explain the ongoing issues.

Out of a certain depots compliment of drivers only 10% were trained either on the new stock or routes at the time the changes took place!!

 

This post from RailUK sums up what is going on (post #1872): https://www.railforums.co.uk/threads/thameslink-services-timetable-from-may-20th.164547/page-63#post-3499629

 

Plus this (post #1929): https://www.railforums.co.uk/threads/thameslink-services-timetable-from-may-20th.164547/page-65#post-3500163

Edited June 9, 2018 by BR(S)

[andyman7]

I agree absolutely.  The abolition of OPRAF was a disaster of major proportions for the railway but it was alas its steadfast independence and the lust of DafT that led to its end.  Like so many things I think it boiled down to a particular Civil Servant, or coterie of them, having the ear of a Mioster who 'wanted to be seen to have done something during his period in office' and of course getting franchising under direct Govt control fitted the mantra of that particular day.

The real damage was the taking into Whitehall of railway management in 2005. Whatever the practical and personality issues of the SRA, an authority at arms length from Ministers is what's needed. OPRAF worked well for it's short existence but was not created to deal with any commercial strategic development of the network.

 

There area many factors that lie behind the current crisis bit when the threads are chased back every single one traces back to DfT. DfT is a civil service staffed arm of Government and it is not sufficiently separate from the web of political intrigue and Ministerial whim that it must serve, it is simply not capable of managing challenging and complex multi-disciplinary activities with the single minded resolve and attention to detail that is required, nor is it allowed to cede that control to others.

 

The reasons for the chaos have been well aired but behind the scenes I have heard too many tales of people who were aware of the risks but were not permitted to call them out because of their relationship with DfT. 

Edited June 10, 2018 by andyman7

[Mike Storey]

The real damage was the taking into Whitehall of railway management in 2005. Whatever the practical and personality issues of the SRA, an authority at arms length form Ministers is what's needed. OPRAF worked well for it's short existence but was not created to deal with any commercial strategic development of the network.

 

There area many factor that lie behind the current crisis bit when the threads are chased back every single one traces back to DfT. DfT is a civil service staffed arm of Government and it is not sufficiently separate from the web of political intrigue and Ministerial whim that it must serve, it is simply not capable of managing challenging and complex multi-disciplinary activities with the single minded resolve and attention to detail that is required, nor is it allowed to cede that control to others.

 

The reasons for the chaos have been well aired but behind the scenes I have heard too many tales of people who were aware of the risks but were not permitted to call them out because of their relationship with DfT. 

 

That is a very fair point. The SRA could have been, and should have been, a very effective organisation. I worked with a large number of its developmental team. Regrettably, it didn't work very well in that respect. Huge ambition, but little real knowledge (with some very notable exceptions) and very flaky budgets. I had a portfolio of around 200 small to medium sized schemes (known as Incremental Enhancements, such as route platform extensions for longer trains, or a series of lifts and ramps etc for disabled etc access, plus the odd junction doubling, dynamic loops, new junctions and so on) which the SRA wanted developed to GRIP 3 so that they could decide which of those would proceed to GRIP 4 and a final decision to implementation. They had a budget of £200m, they said. So I set up a small team and let contracts to Jacobs and WS Atkins under existing call-off contracts, to take these projects forward, and started to turn out results within a few months (given some of them were old schemes they wanted brought up to date). We presented nearly all of the project option selection costings to GRIP 2 within that time, and within 6 months had option costs for around half the projects to GRIP 3 (no mean feat, as pros in the game will tell you - not due to me but to a very good combination of my team and the consultants). The SRA had spent around £4 million with us on this programme by then. At that point, they told me, their budget had been inexplicably slashed to around £90 million. No matter, we thought, still enough to do a significant number of schemes. So between us, we took the number of the most promising projects down to about 40. By GRIP 4, the budget was slashed again to about £45 million. We ended up delivering just 11 of those projects (one of which, Bathgate, has since been overtaken by the E&G schemes).

 

I was never sure whether DfT had spiked their guns, or they did it to themselves. But they lost our affections for sure. Certainly a few of their bigger guns ended up working for Transport Scotland, where budgets did not seem to vary with the wind. My lot got disbanded, because delivery of each scheme eventually went to local teams, which was logical. Thankfully, the Olympics came along which made life worth living again.

[roundhouse]

Now here is a strange situation

[Market65]

National Rails computer must have had a 'moment'! In other words, it went a little bit wrong.

[cromptonnut]

Now here is a strange situation

 

Realtimetrains shows it (9J59) as cancelled throughout due to a planning error http://www.realtimetrains.co.uk/train/W64339/2018/06/12/advanced

 

I think it was replaced by 9Z59 which ran an hour earlier from ECR: http://www.realtimetrains.co.uk/train/O08291/2018/06/12/advanced based on it showing as 56 early.

[roundhouse]

Our trains home tonight

Just 12 more days of commuting left

Edited June 13, 2018 by roundhouse

[John M Upton]

Trespasser at Horley apparently.  I popped down to Barnham with my two year old lad to pop on a train to Chichester and back late this afternoon to find the place in complete chaos so I dread to think what it was like closer to London.

[roundhouse]

 

 

Govia Thameslink chief executive Charles Horton resigns - http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-44497080

[4630]

With the 'revolving door' of rail executive appointments, it's only a matter of time before he resurfaces in another senior rail industry related appointment.

[Zomboid]

Pointlessly, since we've already covered where the actual decision making powers lie for GTR. It's just privatising the blame, and the worst thing is that it's worked.

[roundhouse]

It's only 16.30 and platform 4 already full of passengers. 12 car that's just arrived is announced as already full. I won't be able to get on. Door near us has now failed due to that person hanging out. Driver now getting out to inspect it.

 

Update. Platform staff had to push the person on then the Driver had to manually push the doors closed.

 

Luckily I managed to get on the 16.21 running 21 minutes late

Edited June 15, 2018 by roundhouse

[Purley Oaks]

Govia Thameslink chief executive Charles Horton resigns - http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-44497080

I see that Horton's pay is just a whisker shy of half a million. Not a bad whack, eh?

[Mike Storey]

I see that Horton's pay is just a whisker shy of half a million. Not a bad whack, eh?

 

I am not sure what the point of your comment is?

 

Let's disregard the fact that the majority of this chaos may or may not be his company's fault. Jury is out. GTR have clearly not handled major aspects at all well. So he has done the honourable thing and fallen on his sword. But he started in LUL (who sponsored him through an MBA), then TfL, on local government salaries (i.e. not big) for nearly 20 years, before entering the private world of TOCs at Go-Ahead 15 years ago, at South Central, then South Eastern and then GTR. He is acknowledged as a professionally highly respected, very experienced and knowledgeable, railwayman. I dealt with him briefly during the build up to the 2012 Olympics, and he had a very comprehensive understanding about what needed to be done, and it was done. In effect, he took over the running of four combined companies, 6,500 staff and around 270 million passenger journeys, with the associated costs management (although revenue was a DfT matter), the largest TOC in the UK.

 

Would it have run much better if someone who was prepared to be paid about the same as a politician, had been recruited? I don't see any of them falling on their swords.

[Zomboid]

Under 500k for a job like that seems pretty low to me, with my limited knowledge of the general marketplace for very senior management.

[jjb1970]

With the 'revolving door' of rail executive appointments, it's only a matter of time before he resurfaces in another senior rail industry related appointment.

I suspect in this case his future prospects won't be badly hit as he is doing the decent thing and it is pretty apparent that he is to some extent taking the blame for failings of others.

[rodent279]

Pointlessly, since we've already covered where the actual decision making powers lie for GTR. It's just privatising the blame, and the worst thing is that it's worked.

Spot on.

[great central]

Call me suspicious if you like, but I note that he's due to face a commons committee shortly.

Maybe, just maybe, if he's no longer employed by Govia he could say rather more than if he was still, effectively, a government puppet?

Nice idea I suppose but in reality unlikely I think

[RANGERS]

I first met Charles Horton at an industry forum in 2014, he was fresh faced and full of enthusiasm, relishing the prospect of an integrated network serving 240 destinations I think it was. He majored on London Bridge and all that would bring when completed, I remember “a ticket hall the size of a football pitch...” was one of his quotes.

 

I saw him again in April, his demeanour was the total opposite, “a rabbit in the headlights” one of my colleagues commented and I’d have to say he looked twenty years older. As the DfT puppet, taking the rap for all that went wrong, largely as a result of decisions outwith his control, I’d have to say he’s earned his salary but if that’s what it does to you, I wouldn’t want it.