Bachmann 37-068 GWR 5plk

[Graham456]

Whilst perusing a model shop I noticed a new (one to me) Great Western Wagon from Bachmann, its catalogue No 37-068 5 plank wagon GWR gray, now for years I have mourned the poor rtr options for GWR opens,especially as the local kit maker (paul Dunn) seem to have gone down the plug hole!

Now this model does not yet appear in the list of GWR rtr models on the GWR org list of models, is that because like all previous GWR rtr opens it's a thing of fantasy, or is it just to New to appear on the list yet?

And of less importance! Why is the mortan brake lever left in black plastic by Bachmann?

I have oodles of coopercraft vans but not enough opens, so I have my fingers crossed that this is real, even if it's a bit of a late model not haveing a DC brake

[57xx]

Whilst perusing a model shop I noticed a new (one to me) Great Western Wagon from Bachmann, its catalogue No 37-068 5 plank wagon GWR gray, now for years I have mourned the poor rtr options for GWR opens,especially as the local kit maker (paul Dunn) seem to have gone down the plug hole!

Now this model does not yet appear in the list of GWR rtr models on the GWR org list of models, is that because like all previous GWR rtr opens it's a thing of fantasy, or is it just to New to appear on the list yet?

And of less importance! Why is the mortan brake lever left in black plastic by Bachmann?

I have oodles of coopercraft vans but not enough opens, so I have my fingers crossed that this is real, even if it's a bit of a late model not haveing a DC brake

 

It's a work of fiction I'm afraid. It's their generic wooden underframe 5 plank wagon with GW livery applied.

[Graham456]

It's a work of fiction I'm afraid. It's their generic wooden underframe 5 plank wagon with GW livery applied.

Thanks I lived in hope. But thought it might be the usual story Why has no one produced a rtr GWR open yet ?

back to hunting for the coopercraft kits then

 

To think years ago everyone moaned everything was GWR, ....well it might have been EXCEPT NO open wagons....only the most common type in a train,

I have more vans both rtr and kits than is heathy as it is

Back to the hunt at toy fairs for coopercraft rarities

(I know about the opens in the ratio,parkside,range ta)

[gwrrob]

You could always stretch a tarpaulin over it to disguise it somewhat and use it in a rake and hope no one notices.

[Graham456]

You could always stretch a tarpaulin over it to disguise it somewhat and use it in a rake and hope no one notices.

Hope. No one notices.........fat chance!,it boy took 28 minuets from my posting the question to have my dreams (illusion) shattered that we had a true GWR open How long do you think it would last on a layout?

Still I have only got fifteen years left for some one to make a true GWR open of my three score years and ten allotment!, I might find a few 04' 05'in Old green or red packets in that time!

Edited June 1, 2018 by Graham456

[phil-b259]

Hope. No one notices.........fat chance!,it boy took 28 minuets from my posting the question to have my dreams (illusion) shattered that we had a true GWR open.

 

I would point out that the LMS LNER and SR livered versions are equally fictitious.

 

IIRC Bachmann themselves were quite happy to acknowledge these "big 4" liveries were not in any way authentic - but they had received many requests from modellers for "big 4" open wagons and this was a quick way of responding to said requests.

 

I am quite happy with my SR versions and they don't look out of place in my SR freight train.

 

I would point out that given most people use HO track to build their layouts, the fact that these wagons are not authentic is hardly anything to get worked up about. So what if people on here know the truth - its hardly a state secret that lots of model railway items are not 'correct' in dimensions, livery or overall design.

[Dunsignalling]

Forget Coopercraft, I doubt their kits will ever resurface. 

 

GWR Diagram 011 (unfitted) and 015 (fitted) five-plank opens are catered for by the Parkside/Peco kit Ref: PC81. Parts for sheet rail included.

 

John

[Graham456]

I would point out that the LMS LNER and SR livered versions are equally fictitious.

 

IIRC Bachmann themselves were quite happy to acknowledge these "big 4" liveries were not in any way authentic - but they had received many requests from modellers for "big 4" open wagons and this was a quick way of responding to said requests.

 

I would point out that given most people use HO track to build their layouts, the fact that these wagons are not authentic is hardly anything to get worked up about.

Thanks but knowing all the other railways opens are as bad isn't much compensation! But then in someways maybe it is

O! God the narrow gauge issue!

In my railway the padarn railway won the gauge wars with their four foot one and a half gauge, so 16.5 is near right!....

thank god you can't see the track gauge from side on though!

More important is the lack of proper smoke out of the chimney to ruin the impression to my mind.

never mind that their powered by electricity rather than coal, and we can't clame the electricity is made by coal fired power stations anymore!,some of its made by steam still but glow in the dark steam

 

These comments are ment for amusement not attacking you opinions all answers have been helpful

Edited June 1, 2018 by Graham456

[Graham456]

Forget Coopercraft, I doubt their kits will ever resurface. 

 

GWR Diagram 011 (unfitted) and 015 (fitted) five-plank opens are catered for by the Parkside/Peco kit Ref: PC81. Parts for sheet rail included.

 

John

John I did say I know about the parkside kits in my original post.

But I am in full agreement about the permanent death of coopercraft

[Il Grifone]

 Ratio and ABS do/did GWR open wagons. I did sneak in a K's MR 3 plank as an ex B&M ballast wagon, but I don't these survived much beyond 1923. (The GWR (rightly so) wasn't much impressed by other companies efforts.) Luckily I stocked up on Coopercraft and Ian Kirk kits back in the day. 

 

The lack of white painted brake levers is just a case of 'Can't be ar**ed!' - they'd need to employ another Chinese girl or two just to paint them....

 

I remember the all GWR hoo-hah but it wasn't really justified IMHO and, in any case, one can't have too many GWR models!

 

EDIT

Sorry I missed you knew about the Ratio Kits!

Edited June 1, 2018 by Il Grifone

[Graham456]

Ratio and ABS do/did GWR open wagons. I did sneak in a K's MR 3 plank as an ex B&M ballast wagon, but I don't these survived much beyond 1923. (The GWR (rightly so) wasn't much impressed by other companies efforts.) Luckily I stocked up on Coopercraft and Ian Kirk kits back in the day. 

 

The lack of white painted brake levers is just a case of 'Can't be ar**ed!' - they'd need to employ another Chinese girl or two just to paint them....

 !

So your one of the hoarders (not that I would ever do such a thing cough cough! Splutter Just not the right sort of hoard)

The brake lever and v bracket on the Bachmann wagon doesn't just lack a bit of white on the handle the whole thing is just black plastic stuck on really slap dash, and it wasn't alone on the shelf with can't be assed assembly

P S I have one ABS open very nice it is to, never see another for sale though

[The Johnster]

Wagons on my layout don't make it from the box to the track without a dab of white paint on the handbrake levers!  Then there is the subsequent weathering and, in the case of fitted wagons, addition of lamp brackets (staples) to put Modelu lamps on, which of course have to be painted as well.  

 

One would have hoped that the 21st century market demanded the end of generic chassis, but we are not there yet!  At least we have more underframe detail than we used to, and handbrake levers are separate and not integrally moulded any more, though only last year I was suckered into buying a brand new in the box Dapol wagon that still had this 'retro' feature (it went straight in the bin, costs down to the 'experience' budget).  Baccy have managed proper chassis on some of my LMS and LNER goods stock, and it makes a big difference to the appearance even to someone as lax in matters of scale as myself.

 

Narrow gauge 00 track and tension lock couplers are a historical anomaly which the trade is very firmly locked in to; I never thought I'd ever see bullhead with proper sleeper spacing RTR pointwork in my lifetime (well done, Peco), but we should be striving to get things as right as we can, not using the anomalies as an excuse.

[dube]

I think it’s a good model of a 1923 RCH 5 plank wagon, wondered why it wasn’t selling well, still loads around in the sale sections, I’m waiting for someone to do some 1907 RCH types think they would sell well.

[Graham456]

I think it’s a good model of a 1923 RCH 5 plank wagon, wondered why it wasn’t selling well, still loads around in the sale sections, I’m waiting for someone to do some 1907 RCH types think they would sell well.

Possibly why their hanging around is the fact the place/chain of stores I was looking at them were charging £13.95 for what's turned out to be a jack of all trades fit anything model which is competing with oxfords NB jubilee paint in any colour wagon for £9.50, their equally detailed ?

[Il Grifone]

So your one of the hoarders (not that I would ever do such a thing cough cough! Splutter Just not the right sort of hoard)

The brake lever and v bracket on the Bachmann wagon doesn't just lack a bit of white on the handle the whole thing is just black plastic stuck on really slap dash, and it wasn't alone on the shelf with can't be assed assembly

P S I have one ABS open very nice it is to, never see another for sale though

 

Not so much a hoarder, as a slow worker - boxes full of half finished models....    coupled with. "Now where did I put that... ?" 

 

Badly assembled is down to having to do too many per hour for too little money. (The cheap production costs don't seem to be reflected in low selling price....)

[wagonman]

Don't forget that after WW1 open wagons were common user so you'd be likely to find a majority of LMS and NE opens even in GW territory. Widens your choice at least.

[The Johnster]

True, but you would still expect a good number of the company's own wagons, and a 5 planker is a very standard and common item.  Wagons on internal circuit work would tend to remain more or less exclusively GW owned for a long time after pool arrangements came in to force.  

 

I am a little miffed at the lack of accurate GW opens on my 1950s South Wales BLT; I have plenty of LMS and LNER types and even an LMS Southern 12 ton van, and some BR standards, and ex GW vans are reasonably well represented.  Some vehicles are in pre-nationalisation livery, but I could do with a GW open or two to restore what is my idea of a proper balance.

[Il Grifone]

By the fifties the wagon stock would have been well mixed, as only a relatively few wagons were no longer common user. This is not to say that a proper accurate model of a GWR 5 plank open is not required (rather than esoterics like cattle trucks and horse boxes for example). The latter we can manage without (or at most one or two). I can remember rows of redundant cattle trucks stored out of use at Tavistock Junction in the fifties.

[phil-b259]

 

One would have hoped that the 21st century market demanded the end of generic chassis, but we are not there yet! 

 

The Bachmann wagon itself is not 'Generic' - in its proper guise as a private owner wagon it is correct in all respects. All that has been done is apply a factious paint scheme.

 

It actually compares rather well to some of the horrors produced by Hornby etc in previous decades which usually featured dimensional compromises / errors, and / or reuse the chassis of one type of wagon mated to the body of another.

 

Naturally, a suite of proper big 4 open wagons would be ideal, but till then, theses fictitious ones from Bachmann don't look that bad.

Edited June 1, 2018 by phil-b259

[Il Grifone]

I thought I'd have a look at the Bachmann beastie for interest's sake. As stated it is rather good model of a 5 plank R.C.H. 1923 specification wagon. As regards being a GWR open wagon, it has a wooden underframe (left to inferior railways by the turn of the last century and there are differences in the metalwork on the body. Lack of a sack truck door means it would be from the early part of last century in any case and by the thirties company wagons were 17'6" long over headstocks with a 10' wheelbase. Therefore OK if you don't look too closely....

 

https://railsofsheffield.com/products/27719/Bachmann-37-068-oo-gauge-5-plank-wagon-wooden-floor-gwr-grey

[The Johnster]

The Bachmann wagon itself is not 'Generic' - in its proper guise as a private owner wagon it is correct in all respects. All that has been done is apply a factious paint scheme.

 

It actually compares rather well to some of the horrors produced by Hornby etc in previous decades which usually featured dimensional compromises / errors, and / or reuse the chassis of one type of wagon mated to the body of another.

 

Naturally, a suite of proper big 4 open wagons would be ideal, but till then, theses fictitious ones from Bachmann don't look that bad.

 

Fair point; my inner curmudgeon (inner!) got the better of me.  It is a decent model and the livery is incorrect.  But I am still missing a decent ex-GW open on my layout...

Edited June 2, 2018 by The Johnster

[34theletterbetweenB&D]

Meanwhile Hornby - the reigning champions of wagon genericness - actually have a suitable five plank general merchandise open tooling in their range, from the long ago Airfix GMR stable, which could have Big Four and BR ownership blobbed all over it without significant violence to the truth.

 

The fact is that by the late thirties there had been fair convergence between the groups in this wagon design, and Airfix cunningly selected one of this type with the key features distinguishing it from an RCH 5 plank mineral as a five plank general merchandise open correctly represented: 17'6" steel frame, 10' wb, and the sign peculiar of a sack barrow ramp door, the taper at the top, angled plank at the bottom.

 

Hornby of course don't quite know what to do with it, and their last three pack had a rather fictional rendition of BR's fitted livery! But hey, it used to be relatively cheap and the Airfix versions can often still be got s/h at a sensible price, so this is the wagon I have taken and lightly improved as required to represent this very common presence in the BR steam period. Oh look here's one. Bit pricey by my standards,

 

http://www.hattons.co.uk/348817/Airfix_GMR_Great_Model_Railways_54373_PO_5_Plank_Open_Wagon_in_LMS_Grey_Pre_owned_Like_new/StockDetail.aspx

[Fat Controller]

Meanwhile Hornby - the reigning champions of wagon genericness - actually have a suitable five plank general merchandise open tooling in their range, from the long ago Airfix GMR stable, which could have Big Four and BR ownership blobbed all over it without significant violence to the truth.

 

The fact is that by the late thirties there had been fair convergence between the groups in this wagon design, and Airfix cunningly selected one of this type with the key features distinguishing it from an RCH 5 plank mineral as a five plank general merchandise open correctly represented: 17'6" steel frame, 10' wb, and the sign peculiar of a sack barrow ramp door, the taper at the top, angled plank at the bottom.

 

Hornby of course don't quite know what to do with it, and their last three pack had a rather fictional rendition of BR's fitted livery! But hey, it used to be relatively cheap and the Airfix versions can often still be got s/h at a sensible price, so this is the wagon I have taken and lightly improved as required to represent this very common presence in the BR steam period. Oh look here's one. Bit pricey by my standards,

 

http://www.hattons.co.uk/348817/Airfix_GMR_Great_Model_Railways_54373_PO_5_Plank_Open_Wagon_in_LMS_Grey_Pre_owned_Like_new/StockDetail.aspx

This type, albeit normally with roller-bearings, constituted a large part of the Clayliner fleet as late as the beginning of the 1980s.

[Il Grifone]

This type, albeit normally with roller-bearings, constituted a large part of the Clayliner fleet as late as the beginning of the 1980s.

 

These were end tipping 9 foot wheelbase wagons of a BR design which itself was a revised version of a GWR design. There is a Bachmann R-T-R model and a Ratio kit. Both have roller bearing axleboxes. I am in the process of replacing the axleboxes on mine. An Ian Kirk kit was once available of the GWR wagon.

This is a GWR example:-

 

https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/4/46/GWR_wagon_O13_92943.jpg

 

The ones I remember seeing were all over white from the clay.

 

EDIT

 

The GWR version of the Airfix open wagon is here:- (currently out of stock).

 

http://www.hattons.co.uk/324683/Airfix_GMR_Great_Model_Railways_54372_LN06_5_Plank_Open_Wagon_GWR_Pre_owned_Like_new/StockDetail.aspx

 

This very wagon (109458) is illustrated in Atkins et al. Vol. 2 and described as O24 of 1924. several detail differences are obvious. Mainly the diagonal bracing does not extend down over the solebars, the end stanchions are tapered over the whole end and the corner plates extend down over the curb rail. Strangely Vol. 1 lists 109458 as O27, one of three wagons for tinplate traffic of 1930/1, but there are no further details of this diagram, beyond a higher tare weight of 7 tons 15 cwt., presumably to cover floor strengthening?

Edited June 2, 2018 by Il Grifone

[81C]

Grahame I have several of the type on the attached webpage bottom left http://www.airfixrailways.co.uk/Catalogues/1980/WagonsB.jpg

but any wagon moulded the same will do if you happy to attack it with a can of Railmatch GWR wagon grey and a sheet if HMRS pressfix 

transfers it's close to the GWR diagram 024.

Bob