CME and Bottlewasher Posted April 22, 2018 Share Posted April 22, 2018 (edited) From my experience with Dapol/Lionheart wagons, and from what I've seen, the 25T brake will be decent. I expect to have to make some detail additions though. I hope that if other company brakes are done, they not duplicate existing kits from Parkside, Slaters, Peco etc. John Hi John, TBF, the Dapol/LH LNER/BR (20T Brake) looks quite good as an EP. The Dapol Pillbox? Not Dapol's finest hour-glad to see continous improvement is, apparently, at work though! Dapol WILL duplicate the existing kits-thats a given, they already have. Hard not to TBF as most types of BV are available in kit form from most decent kit manufacturers. LLC will have to do the same if Steve wants to produce a popular usable, BV in 7mm RTR. Hijack over. Atvb CME Edited April 22, 2018 by CME and Bottlewasher 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
brossard Posted April 22, 2018 Share Posted April 22, 2018 Well CME, I've learned that those Dapol models that predate RW/LH are not all that decent - don't know where the pillbox fits in the timeline. They can scrub up with some effort but there are better options. John Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
chris coates Posted April 23, 2018 Share Posted April 23, 2018 Well CME, I've learned that those Dapol models that predate RW/LH are not all that decent - don't know where the pillbox fits in the timeline. They can scrub up with some effort but there are better options. John I would be surprised if Dapol do much in improvements once they have produced the model if my experience is anything to go by. I'm sure anyone who has bought a green 08 will have noticed the numerals have the wrong font and are oversize. I have two of their 08's and have altered one to the correct 6" numbers. To help them I photographed the two 08's side by side and took it to Telford last year to show them but, guess what, the second edition is exactly the same. You can take a horse to water....etc. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
chris coates Posted April 23, 2018 Share Posted April 23, 2018 I would be surprised if Dapol do much in improvements once they have produced the model if my experience is anything to go by. I'm sure anyone who has bought a green 08 will have noticed the numerals have the wrong font and are oversize. I have two of their 08's and have altered one to the correct 6" numbers. To help them I photographed the two 08's side by side and took it to Telford last year to show them but, guess what, the second edition is exactly the same. You can take a horse to water....etc. meant to add photo to show the problem but forgot...here it is Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
brossard Posted April 23, 2018 Share Posted April 23, 2018 (edited) Once something has been productionized, companies are loath to make changes I think. I hadn't noticed the font issue, so thanks. Don't know if I'll change mine, must mull. I should add that I think all of Dapols locos are excellent. John Edited April 23, 2018 by brossard Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Nth Degree Posted April 23, 2018 Author Share Posted April 23, 2018 Hi Steve, Are the LNER and BR 20T Brake Vans still on the radar ?. Kind regards Alan Nothing at all is off the table at the moment. A client of KitPart has got us looking at some 7mm wagons, so coming up with some solutions to production problems has got me thinking about many things for future LLC models. Now that KitPart is acquiring some of its own production equipment (CNC mill next week), along with a second designer/engineer I'm hoping we can move along quite quickly once everyone is up to speed. Very highly detailed wagons should be relatively easy on the equipment we have now, although it does worry me about the potential price point we'll be coming in at; it probably won't be the £30-40 range you're all used to, although current plans do allow for just about every single detail. Assembly prices in the UK are pretty high. It's quite possible that we cut out the assembly costs and supply them as fully detailed plastic assembly kits, which we are also planning to do with a couple small locos. We can then comfortably match prices or compete with other manufacturers, where we would supply a fully detailed kit, while they offer a less detailed ready-to-run model. It's just an idea at the moment. LLC will always just supply cutting edge ready-to-run models, so moving kit products (if we decide to go that way) will be KitPart branded. 6 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
brossard Posted April 23, 2018 Share Posted April 23, 2018 Thanks for the clarification Steve. Maybe we can stop speculating now. Sorry for the hijack but I am easily led. I'd be happy for finely detailed models that exceed the current price point. I would note that more complex RTR models (like milk tanks and brakes) are nearer the 60 pound level. Your idea of producing detailed kits is something I would happily entertain. Again, let's not duplicate what's already out there in the RTR and kit world. John Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CME and Bottlewasher Posted April 24, 2018 Share Posted April 24, 2018 Nothing at all is off the table at the moment. A client of KitPart has got us looking at some 7mm wagons, so coming up with some solutions to production problems has got me thinking about many things for future LLC models. Now that KitPart is acquiring some of its own production equipment (CNC mill next week), along with a second designer/engineer I'm hoping we can move along quite quickly once everyone is up to speed. Very highly detailed wagons should be relatively easy on the equipment we have now, although it does worry me about the potential price point we'll be coming in at; it probably won't be the £30-40 range you're all used to, although current plans do allow for just about every single detail. Assembly prices in the UK are pretty high. It's quite possible that we cut out the assembly costs and supply them as fully detailed plastic assembly kits, which we are also planning to do with a couple small locos. We can then comfortably match prices or compete with other manufacturers, where we would supply a fully detailed kit, while they offer a less detailed ready-to-run model. It's just an idea at the moment. LLC will always just supply cutting edge ready-to-run models, so moving kit products (if we decide to go that way) will be KitPart branded. Hi Steve,Exciting! Please excuse my ignorance, but who are Kit Part? Ive often wondered, if like some IMP aircraft kits if pre-coloured/pre-painted kits in 7mm might be viable.... ATVB CME Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Nth Degree Posted April 24, 2018 Author Share Posted April 24, 2018 KitPart Ltd is the company Nikki and I created to explore and carry out UK production of injection moulded parts and models. We now have an injection moulding machine and a CNC mill to create the tooling with. Just have to learn how to use it... 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Premium boxbrownie Posted April 24, 2018 RMweb Premium Share Posted April 24, 2018 Certainly really pleased my suggestion of reviving the old CKD kits might be a runner But to be serious for a moment, Steve, will the smoke unit from the 22 be a viable “fit” in the 15 as a retro fit part do you think, or possibly might you develop a unique smoke unit specifically for the 15? I love the idea of Clagging diesels running around the model room Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
brossard Posted April 24, 2018 Share Posted April 24, 2018 (edited) Hi Steve, Exciting! Please excuse my ignorance, but who are Kit Part? Ive often wondered, if like some IMP aircraft kits if pre-coloured/pre-painted kits in 7mm might be viable.... ATVB CME Not sure how effective pre coloured/pre painted will be, for me anyway. I tend to make a bit of a mess when gluing things together, relying on paint to hide my mistakes. John Edited April 24, 2018 by brossard 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Premium boxbrownie Posted April 24, 2018 RMweb Premium Share Posted April 24, 2018 Not sure how effective pre coloured/pre painted will be, for me anyway. I tend to make a bit of a mess when gluing things together, relying on paint to hide my mistakes. John I would have thought the kits would be the same as final assembly in the factory in as much that the parts are more likely requiring tab fitting and screw assembly more than masses of glue every where. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
brossard Posted April 24, 2018 Share Posted April 24, 2018 Makes sense David, I guess we'll have to see. John Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Nth Degree Posted April 24, 2018 Author Share Posted April 24, 2018 Certainly really pleased my suggestion of reviving the old CKD kits might be a runner But to be serious for a moment, Steve, will the smoke unit from the 22 be a viable “fit” in the 15 as a retro fit part do you think, or possibly might you develop a unique smoke unit specifically for the 15? I love the idea of Clagging diesels running around the model room We've been looking at kit-based models for a few months now for several different products. For example, the 04 shunter has two different chassis designs, several cab and bonnet configurations and three different wheel sizes, and all the time being classified as an '04'. Producing this a an RTR model would cost a fortune, unless you picked one of those versions and ran with it, like Bachmann/San Cheng did, but that's not what LLC is; if we're going to make a 04 we're going to make all of them. This is an ideal model to be produced as a kit or CKD product, even if to reduce assembly and inventory costs. I'm afraid the smoke unit used in the 22 is too big for the 15. The 22 was designed for it. As it's quite big – and very simple – we are looking at producing our own unit, but I'm not sure yet how much smaller we can make it and still retain the same tank capacity. Don't write it off just yet though, we are trying to be creative about this. 3 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Nth Degree Posted April 24, 2018 Author Share Posted April 24, 2018 I would have thought the kits would be the same as final assembly in the factory in as much that the parts are more likely requiring tab fitting and screw assembly more than masses of glue every where. Absolutely. The two worst things you can have on a production line are paint and glue. You have to find additional space for drying storage and possibly positioning and fixing jigs, plus controlling the amount of paint or glue from worker to worker is incredibly difficult. I've heard of many models being returned for glue marks (luckily not on the 15), so we've almost designed that out on the 22 – total glue used is approx 3 drops, maybe 4. Everything else is tab-located and screwed, or uses friction fits in non-stress areas. 7 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CME and Bottlewasher Posted April 24, 2018 Share Posted April 24, 2018 KitPart Ltd is the company Nikki and I created to explore and carry out UK production of injection moulded parts and models. We now have an injection moulding machine and a CNC mill to create the tooling with. Just have to learn how to use it...Thanks, I did wonder but must have missed that info before. These things take time, I shall force myself to use CAD at some time or other. BTW, as a heads up, I had a second alert telling me that my pre-order was cancelled, I filed it as an archive after your reassurances. Not sure how effective pre coloured/pre painted will be, for me anyway. I tend to make a bit of a mess when gluing things together, relying on paint to hide my mistakes. John Im sure youre not that bad John, as Steve has said, proper design clever can get around such issues. ATVB CME Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MissWeeble Posted April 24, 2018 Share Posted April 24, 2018 One of the biggest issues with glue and kits is there isnt enough gap left around the hole or slot where the glue is meant to go - meaning that no matter how smaller amount is placed it still forces it out and onto the surface. But even designing that gap into a kit still would need a precise amount added to the part, something thats a bit hit and miss with anyone, especially on a production line. Making an entire model to be nearly all no glue, is quite challenging, and involves working out hidden clips, screws and pips, whilst still making sure it is all mouldable and accessable. Regards Nikki Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CME and Bottlewasher Posted April 25, 2018 Share Posted April 25, 2018 (edited) One of the biggest issues with glue and kits is there isnt enough gap left around the hole or slot where the glue is meant to go - meaning that no matter how smaller amount is placed it still forces it out and onto the surface. But even designing that gap into a kit still would need a precise amount added to the part, something thats a bit hit and miss with anyone, especially on a production line. Making an entire model to be nearly all no glue, is quite challenging, and involves working out hidden clips, screws and pips, whilst still making sure it is all mouldable and accessable. Regards Nikki Hi Nikki, I agree re. in the truest sense 'design clever'....it is well.....very clever and takes a lot of skill and thought to achieve. Re affixing parts, I agree, if one is using a 'plastic cement' type glue, often used on military or aviation IMP kits, it can be messy and awkward. However... .....If the substrate join area is free from paint, release agent, dirt etc, then with solvent a 'weld' can be achieved, when used sparingly, using various methods of application. With a mild solvent paint damage can be avoided too-if used sparingly-certain brands, in a mild form, can even weld ABS. All with the model dry assembled via capillary action. If possible solvent could even be applied to the back of the model, thus away from painted/pre-painted surfaces. With solvents there is little mess and later on, no glue 'rot' either, they last as long as the model, as the plastic has been solvent welded (effectively melting the IMP). Half the problems Dapol, Heljan RTR suffer from, ie bits falling off, are, from my observations, due to an inappropriate adhesive being used and/or it being used to glue paint to paint (ie painted surface to painted surface as opposed to substrate to substrate). ATVB CME Edited April 25, 2018 by CME and Bottlewasher 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Nth Degree Posted April 26, 2018 Author Share Posted April 26, 2018 The web elves have informed me that all Ruston and C22 orders are now back online with the new ordering system fully deployed. I just had a brief look and I can see 15 pages of Ruston orders, which looks to be correct at casual glance, but I'll check fully over the weekend. If you'd like to check yourselves by logging in and let me know of any errors. Also, as the old system didn't have enough categories to include S7 as a build option on the Ruston, if you have previously specified this please let me know so I can add it. Likewise with any special delivery and payment options preferred. I had made online notes on your orders, but by upgrading these notes have disappeared. One or two elves have spent some time bent over my knee... Being my birthday week, responses to emails may be slightly delayed and covered in cake crumbs. Have a good weekend all. 5 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CME and Bottlewasher Posted April 26, 2018 Share Posted April 26, 2018 Happy birthday Steve-enjoy! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Premium boxbrownie Posted April 27, 2018 RMweb Premium Share Posted April 27, 2018 (edited) One or two elves have spent some time bent over my knee... Now THAT is a Birthday party Edited April 27, 2018 by boxbrownie Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CME and Bottlewasher Posted April 27, 2018 Share Posted April 27, 2018 (edited) Now THAT is a Birthday party Sounds like the sort of do, our local judge (maybe our vicar too) wud attend! LOL! Edited April 27, 2018 by CME and Bottlewasher Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Premium boxbrownie Posted April 27, 2018 RMweb Premium Share Posted April 27, 2018 Most likely together......... I’ll get my coat Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Premium boxbrownie Posted April 27, 2018 RMweb Premium Share Posted April 27, 2018 Promised Mum I’d be home early Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
paulbb Posted April 28, 2018 Share Posted April 28, 2018 The web elves have informed me that all Ruston and C22 orders are now back online with the new ordering system fully deployed. I just had a brief look and I can see 15 pages of Ruston orders, which looks to be correct at casual glance, but I'll check fully over the weekend. If you'd like to check yourselves by logging in and let me know of any errors. Also, as the old system didn't have enough categories to include S7 as a build option on the Ruston, if you have previously specified this please let me know so I can add it. Likewise with any special delivery and payment options preferred. I had made online notes on your orders, but by upgrading these notes have disappeared. One or two elves have spent some time bent over my knee... Being my birthday week, responses to emails may be slightly delayed and covered in cake crumbs. Have a good weekend all. Any pictures of these 'elves' perchance..... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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