TurboSnail Posted December 5, 2021 Author Share Posted December 5, 2021 Modelling motivation has been a bit low recently, but the arrival of some name/number/works plates gave me a small simple job to get on with. 9 2 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
TurboSnail Posted December 11, 2021 Author Share Posted December 11, 2021 Lots of small mods on this one, started life in BR 'Sunshine' Black, and I think might technically be the most modern-era stock I own! (also, no 3D printing in sight! I'm ok, I promise...) 8 1 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
TurboSnail Posted December 30, 2021 Author Share Posted December 30, 2021 Time for something proper and pre-grouping... ex-LCDR coaching stock! I'm hoping this is good enough for the livery, it may have to be as adding the window lining would be another 88 separately applied lines per coach, and I'm not sure I have the patience for that... The rest of the train may one day look a bit like this! From left to right: - 3-comp brake third (the one I've liveried half of above) - modelled accurately to a drawing - 5-comp composite (2-1-1-1-2) - fictional, but with the same panelling and features as the others. If I can work up the motivation to do a lot more CAD, I may swap this for a 4-comp 2-1-1-2 as I guess that would be more prototypical? This one has to make up the proportion of firsts and seconds in the train. - 5-comp third (existed, but don't have drawings). Same style as the others - 3-comp brake second - accurate to a drawing, most downgraded to thirds by my era, but two were still seconds so can just about justify it! A prototypical rake would be up to 11 coaches as far as I can tell, but I'm not sure I'd live long enough to complete that at the rate I'm going! One thing I'm looking for - does anyone know what a set number might be for this sort of train? The one that goes on the ends of the brake carriages - I've got the large yellow numerals transfers, but no idea what set no. to give it. 3 6 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dana Ashdown Posted December 30, 2021 Share Posted December 30, 2021 That is impressive! I have some Ratio GWR 4-wheelers that I'm planning to turn into LC&DR and SE&CR carriages, starting with a 28ft. LC&DR passenger brake van. My plan is to do a 4 or 5 car rake to use with my H and P class tanks. Whether I can reach the level of finish you've achieve remains to be seen. 2 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
TurboSnail Posted December 30, 2021 Author Share Posted December 30, 2021 (edited) A bit more on that finish, as it may be useful to you - main body colour is RAL3007 (at least according to the spray can) which may or may not be right. The transfers are from Fox, yellow 0.35mm lining plus the SECR coach pack. It didn't take a whole lot of skill to do, just plenty of patience cutting lining sections... To try and make everything line up on the sides, long strips were laid all the way along, left to dry, I then trimmed out the bits between the panelling. The roof was a pale grey, supposed to be weathered white, but that didn't really work. I'm stuck with it now though! Edited December 30, 2021 by TurboSnail 3 1 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
wainwright1 Posted December 30, 2021 Share Posted December 30, 2021 Your tempting me again. I would very much like set of these in 4mm, although they would not have appeared on my Hawkhurst branch. My branch train (based on photos) is formed of an ex-LC & DR all 1st, all 2nd and all 3rd, plus an ex-SER 4 wheeled full break. The rush hour train, (much more vague), is made up of three bogie coaches which may have been attached to through trains to London. These would all be painted in the lined red livery apart from the full break. My hop-pickers special will be made up of 12 ex-LC & DR 6 wheelers, fortunately painted in the later brown livery. The stock before this would have been ancient SER 4 wheelers, perhaps close coupled. All the best Happy New Year Ray 2 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
TurboSnail Posted December 30, 2021 Author Share Posted December 30, 2021 These brakes are from the 1879/80 set, and should really be close-coupled. I'm not sure whether I'll model them as such as I have nowhere to run a proper rake at the moment so they may stay as single coaches for now. The limited info I have seems to imply that there weren't composites - a typical train being three firsts, four seconds (including a brake) and four thirds (including a brake). I would guess the firsts would be 4-comp and the rest 5-comp (excepting the brakes at 3-comp) which makes: 12 1st Class compartments, 18 2nds and 18 3rds, or 2:3:3 by ratio. I've invented the composite in my rake to try and keep a distribution of 1st, 2nd and 3rd within a much shorter train. I don't know if it'll work, but we'll see! 3 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
TurboSnail Posted January 1, 2022 Author Share Posted January 1, 2022 Happy new year everyone! Hope it's all a bit more fun than the doom-mongering of recent times! Sticking strictly to modelling, my hope is that I'll get better at finishing projects, instead of starting them then leaving them on the sidelines for years at a time. We shall see how that turns out! 4 5 2 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tom Burnham Posted January 1, 2022 Share Posted January 1, 2022 On 30/12/2021 at 19:13, wainwright1 said: Your tempting me again. I would very much like set of these in 4mm, although they would not have appeared on my Hawkhurst branch. My branch train (based on photos) is formed of an ex-LC & DR all 1st, all 2nd and all 3rd, plus an ex-SER 4 wheeled full break. The rush hour train, (much more vague), is made up of three bogie coaches which may have been attached to through trains to London. These would all be painted in the lined red livery apart from the full break. My hop-pickers special will be made up of 12 ex-LC & DR 6 wheelers, fortunately painted in the later brown livery. The stock before this would have been ancient SER 4 wheelers, perhaps close coupled. All the best Happy New Year Ray Ray, I suspect Chatham 6-wheelers might have been a bit modern for hoppers' trains in the SE&CR period (although of course they could well have appeared under the pressure of traffic demands). I looked into it to some extent a little while ago in connection with stock used on trains to Bodiam (KE&SR) - relevant bits are: "In about 1916 the SE&CR formed eighteen “hop-pickers’ trains” of ex-London, Chatham & Dover Railway four-wheeled carriages built in the 1870s and 1880s. Each train (or more accurately half-train) consisted of a three-compartment brake third, and four five-compartment thirds, seating two hundred and thirty passengers in distinctly cramped conditions for a tare weight of only about fifty tons. These sets were withdrawn in 1925. They were replaced by ex-South Eastern Railway six-wheelers dating from the 1880s, still with gas lighting and with no steam heating, released by the first stages of suburban electrification. They were formed into fourteen-coach excursion sets numbered in the low 700s, which when not in use were stored at various sidings around the Eastern Section of the Southern Railway, such as Grove Park, Crystal Palace (High Level) and even Tovil Goods. The ex-SER sets seem to have been withdrawn by the early 1930s, and their role on cheap excursion trains was taken over by fourteen-coach sets of ex-London, Chatham & Dover six-wheelers. These plain but solidly-built carriages had the advantages of electric lighting (the “Chatham” had never used gas lighting for its carriages, making the transition directly from oil lamps to electricity) and of being considered unsuitable for rebuilding into electric trains.... The ex-Chatham excursion sets were still being used in 1934, as one of them, set 835, was photographed at Bodiam on 20th September, waiting to return pickers to London at the end of the season. Set 835 was withdrawn at the end of December 1935, so this may well have been its last revenue-earning journey. It included two brake thirds, two firsts and ten five-compartment thirds, and was berthed at Crystal Palace High Level station when not in use. Remarkably, one of the brake thirds has survived. Southern Railway carriage 3652, built as a third at Longhedge works in 1897 and later converted to a brake third, was sold without its underframe for use as a house at Yarcombe, Devon. It is now being restored by the Bluebell Railway, where it will be returned to its original all-third class layout. With the abolition of six-wheeled passenger carriages on the Southern Railway (except on the Isle of Wight) at the end of 1935, a number of nine-coach sets of ex-South Eastern & Chatham bogie carriages were formed for use on excursion trains, including hop-pickers’ specials (set numbers 896 to 921). These sets were sometimes reduced to six carriages for hop pickers’ trains, and ran with up to four four-wheeled “utility vans”." Regards, Tom, Staplehurst 1 2 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
wainwright1 Posted January 1, 2022 Share Posted January 1, 2022 17 minutes ago, Tom Burnham said: Ray, I suspect Chatham 6-wheelers might have been a bit modern for hoppers' trains in the SE&CR period (although of course they could well have appeared under the pressure of traffic demands). I looked into it to some extent a little while ago in connection with stock used on trains to Bodiam (KE&SR) - relevant bits are: "In about 1916 the SE&CR formed eighteen “hop-pickers’ trains” of ex-London, Chatham & Dover Railway four-wheeled carriages built in the 1870s and 1880s. Each train (or more accurately half-train) consisted of a three-compartment brake third, and four five-compartment thirds, seating two hundred and thirty passengers in distinctly cramped conditions for a tare weight of only about fifty tons. These sets were withdrawn in 1925. They were replaced by ex-South Eastern Railway six-wheelers dating from the 1880s, still with gas lighting and with no steam heating, released by the first stages of suburban electrification. They were formed into fourteen-coach excursion sets numbered in the low 700s, which when not in use were stored at various sidings around the Eastern Section of the Southern Railway, such as Grove Park, Crystal Palace (High Level) and even Tovil Goods. The ex-SER sets seem to have been withdrawn by the early 1930s, and their role on cheap excursion trains was taken over by fourteen-coach sets of ex-London, Chatham & Dover six-wheelers. These plain but solidly-built carriages had the advantages of electric lighting (the “Chatham” had never used gas lighting for its carriages, making the transition directly from oil lamps to electricity) and of being considered unsuitable for rebuilding into electric trains.... The ex-Chatham excursion sets were still being used in 1934, as one of them, set 835, was photographed at Bodiam on 20th September, waiting to return pickers to London at the end of the season. Set 835 was withdrawn at the end of December 1935, so this may well have been its last revenue-earning journey. It included two brake thirds, two firsts and ten five-compartment thirds, and was berthed at Crystal Palace High Level station when not in use. Remarkably, one of the brake thirds has survived. Southern Railway carriage 3652, built as a third at Longhedge works in 1897 and later converted to a brake third, was sold without its underframe for use as a house at Yarcombe, Devon. It is now being restored by the Bluebell Railway, where it will be returned to its original all-third class layout. With the abolition of six-wheeled passenger carriages on the Southern Railway (except on the Isle of Wight) at the end of 1935, a number of nine-coach sets of ex-South Eastern & Chatham bogie carriages were formed for use on excursion trains, including hop-pickers’ specials (set numbers 896 to 921). These sets were sometimes reduced to six carriages for hop pickers’ trains, and ran with up to four four-wheeled “utility vans”." Regards, Tom, Staplehurst Lots of interesting useful data there Tom. I have seen most of the info in the various books covering the coaching stock. I am being a bit flexible with my dates on Hawkhurst so that I can use what is (or was) available in kit form. I think that the only LC & DR 4 wheeled produced were the ones that Roxey did originally as a commission for the Blackfriars Bridge Station layout project. Unfortunately, these actually came out under scale, more like H0 than 00. So I have opted for the D & S 6 wheeled coaches and have acquired enough kits to do a 12 coach set. Why 12 coaches ? Well, there are a couple of pictures showing several rakes of these excursion stock coaches in the sidings at Crystal Palace and at least one, possibly two of them, appear to have only 12 rather than 14 coaches. There is a secondary benefit for using only 12 coaches, as we also have a layout of Crystal Palace High Level Station set in Southern Railway days, so I can use this set as old stock which has not yet been re-painted into Southern livery. Also, a tank engine and 12 coaches will fit in the head shunt on CPHL, whereas a 14 coach set will not. Which is not to say that I would not acquire a set of the older 4 wheeled stock if it became available at an affordable price, and it looks like Mr Snail might make that possible. All the best Happy New Year Ray 3 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
TurboSnail Posted January 2, 2022 Author Share Posted January 2, 2022 And now for something a wee bit different... Back to industrial, and I have a bit of a thing for Fireless locos, so here's another one. This time based on a 2ft gauge prototype, of which four were supplied to Gretna Munitions factory, by Barclay in 1917. My version is necessarily a bit different, due to the chassis I had available, so it's an 0-4-0 instead of an 0-2-2, rides a little bit higher, and is effectively "half-gauge" (or 2ft 4in to scale). Designed to be ultra-lightweight, with features like the wooden cab, and as the source material says "only weighed 3 ton 17 cwt... (complete with lady driver)"! 9 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
TurboSnail Posted January 12, 2022 Author Share Posted January 12, 2022 I'm not doing very well on the 'get projects finished' front - here's another one that might be delayed for a while. A Peckett X Class - waiting for me work out how to scratch build a backhead, then fit buffers, hooks, pipework and other assorted details. 10 2 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
wainwright1 Posted January 12, 2022 Share Posted January 12, 2022 4 hours ago, TurboSnail said: I'm not doing very well on the 'get projects finished' front - here's another one that might be delayed for a while. A Peckett X Class - waiting for me work out how to scratch build a backhead, then fit buffers, hooks, pipework and other assorted details. Hi Tom. Very nice, but you got the livery wrong. It should be maroon, with either Metropolitan or London Transport on the side ! More temptations. All the best Ray 3 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
TurboSnail Posted January 12, 2022 Author Share Posted January 12, 2022 2 hours ago, wainwright1 said: Hi Tom. Very nice, but you got the livery wrong. It should be maroon, with either Metropolitan or London Transport on the side ! More temptations. All the best Ray But the photo I copied was black and white! The livery I copied was actually an NCB one, but I've no idea what the colour was - the chassis I had was black, so that made the choice for me! 3 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
TurboSnail Posted January 17, 2022 Author Share Posted January 17, 2022 Having said I might not finish this project for a while, I was planning to design a proper backhead and reverser, brake standard, a couple of boiler fittings etc. and 3D print them - I changed my mind and raided the scrap box instead. Not perfectly accurate, but I'm pretty happy with it! Better that than waiting an indeterminate amount of time until I get the 3D printer back up and running. 9 5 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
TurboSnail Posted January 20, 2022 Author Share Posted January 20, 2022 A Pack of Pecketts! W4: Hornby W4 with replacement cab in plasticard, larger buffer heads, repainted B1: Hornby B2 with 3D printed replacement cab, replacement bufferbeam and buffers, repainted Y: 3D printed on custom chassis X: 3D printed on a modified Hattons P Class chassis 11 1 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RedGemAlchemist Posted January 20, 2022 Share Posted January 20, 2022 1 hour ago, TurboSnail said: A Pack of Pecketts! W4: Hornby W4 with replacement cab in plasticard, larger buffer heads, repainted B1: Hornby B2 with 3D printed replacement cab, replacement bufferbeam and buffers, repainted Y: 3D printed on custom chassis X: 3D printed on a modified Hattons P Class chassis Shouldn't that make it a Packett? 3 2 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
TurboSnail Posted February 10, 2022 Author Share Posted February 10, 2022 Time to do some chopping, perhaps! Continuing the Fireless fixation, this one will get Anglicised - an exercise in plasticard and filler, no 3D printing to be seen. 6 1 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
LBSC123 Posted February 10, 2022 Share Posted February 10, 2022 1 hour ago, TurboSnail said: Time to do some chopping, perhaps! Continuing the Fireless fixation, this one will get Anglicised - an exercise in plasticard and filler, no 3D printing to be seen. I always through this chassis would make a good basis for something like a C14… 3 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
TurboSnail Posted February 10, 2022 Author Share Posted February 10, 2022 2 hours ago, LBSC123 said: I always through this chassis would make a good basis for something like a C14… If it helps, it equates to roughly 7ft 6in wheelbase in 4mm scale, too long for a UK fireless really, but I'm choosing to ignore that! 10mm wheels (2ft 6in-ish). The other factor is that it's very wide, about 35mm over cylinders for this one, and there's another variant of the chassis that's even wider, so it might not work for that reason. The flanges are also massive, so it bumps along on Code 75 track, it had AC pickups fitted that I've removed, and there's a traction tyre... I'm not quite sure what to make of this chassis, the valve gear is great, the motor and gearing is smooth and at a good speed, but flanges/traction tyre let it down, and it'll take quite a bit of work to get it running nicely because of those. I don't have access to a lathe, so turning them down isn't an option, but might be able to file them... or more likely, swap to a set of Scale-link 3ft wheels to get a better size for a UK prototype and get rid of the awkward flanges and traction tyre in one shot. 5 1 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Edwardian Posted February 10, 2022 Share Posted February 10, 2022 (edited) 8 hours ago, TurboSnail said: If it helps, it equates to roughly 7ft 6in wheelbase in 4mm scale, too long for a UK fireless really, but I'm choosing to ignore that! 10mm wheels (2ft 6in-ish). The other factor is that it's very wide, about 35mm over cylinders for this one, and there's another variant of the chassis that's even wider, so it might not work for that reason. The flanges are also massive, so it bumps along on Code 75 track, it had AC pickups fitted that I've removed, and there's a traction tyre... I'm not quite sure what to make of this chassis, the valve gear is great, the motor and gearing is smooth and at a good speed, but flanges/traction tyre let it down, and it'll take quite a bit of work to get it running nicely because of those. I don't have access to a lathe, so turning them down isn't an option, but might be able to file them... or more likely, swap to a set of Scale-link 3ft wheels to get a better size for a UK prototype and get rid of the awkward flanges and traction tyre in one shot. That's interesting. I can certainly see what LBSC123 means. The valve gear and the proportions are similar: - Your fireless scaling in 4mm at 2'6'' wheels and 7'6'' w/b - C14 with 3' wheels and 8' w/b Add a Reduced Nellie body and Robert is your parent's sister's gentleman caller. Look forward to seeing how you get on with the replacement wheels. Edited February 10, 2022 by Edwardian spelling 4 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
TurboSnail Posted February 11, 2022 Author Share Posted February 11, 2022 The aim with this loco is to make something like the Hawthorn Firelesses - I think this is the closest resemblance to some of the existing parts. This will mean: - shortening the pressure vessel - changing the cab - shortening the chassis - removing some of the extra bits on the top of the pressure vessel - new bufferbeams - modifying the front of the pressure vessel - pipework detail etc. The conversion started by chopping a section out of the pressure vessel and tweaking a B2 cab to look like the Hawthorn type. I've also removed the DCC bits, hardwired for DC, removed the AC skid plate and removed the lighting from the chassis at this point, as it all took up space in the cab I didn't want obscuring. 5 1 3 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
AlfaZagato Posted February 11, 2022 Share Posted February 11, 2022 Was this an AC locomotive in the first place? You will need to change the wheels either way. AC axles tend to be uninsulated. 1 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
TurboSnail Posted February 11, 2022 Author Share Posted February 11, 2022 15 minutes ago, AlfaZagato said: Was this an AC locomotive in the first place? You will need to change the wheels either way. AC axles tend to be uninsulated. I think it was designed in as an option, but it runs on DC well enough (apart from the wheel flanges issue). It's also (or was) DCC fitted. 3 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
LBSC123 Posted February 11, 2022 Share Posted February 11, 2022 Do you have a photo of the chassis without body? It would be interesting to see if a C14 conversion could be achievable. 3 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
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