Rail-Online Posted July 5, 2018 Share Posted July 5, 2018 Hi, I have never seen this before (on a main line railway at least) - does anyone know if many Lowmacs were adapted to carry containers and if so when? The 'box' in the first wagon looks interesting too! Tony 9 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fat Controller Posted July 5, 2018 Share Posted July 5, 2018 First time I've seen a photo of one actually moving.. On page 19 of 'Wagons of the Final Years of British Railways' by David Larkin, there is a list of numbers, which has about a hundred wagons on it, of BR, LMS and LNER origin. The conversion, which involve fitting a frame with Twistlocks on the wagon floor, was probably done in 1966, and the wagons saw about five years use. The traffic was maritime containers from Hull, Goole and Liverpool; no idea what the destination depots might be. Some Rectanks were also modified for ISO boxes- both types would have been superseded by standard Freightliner flats, once the transition to Twistlocks had taken place. 2 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Premium Clive Mortimore Posted July 5, 2018 RMweb Premium Share Posted July 5, 2018 As normal Paul Bartlett comes to our rescue in his Lowmac section. There are some more photos in the early containers section, and some rectank conversions as Brian mentioned. The only photo of one in a moving train I know of is in "The Power of the 9Fs". 1 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
br2975 Posted July 5, 2018 Share Posted July 5, 2018 I seem to recall (but stand to be corrected) some also worked to the Heap Bridge, Lancashire paper mill of Yates Duxbury, . .......................Exit stage left, bound for the man cave and photographic evidence to justify this claim ! 2 1 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
hmrspaul Posted July 5, 2018 Share Posted July 5, 2018 (edited) As normal Paul Bartlett comes to our rescue in his Lowmac section. There are some more photos in the early containers section, and some rectank conversions as Brian mentioned. The only photo of one in a moving train I know of is in "The Power of the 9Fs". Some were also ex LNER series http://paulbartlett.zenfolio.com/lnerlowmac [this includes official BR era wagon being loaded] and diagram 242 http://paulbartlett.zenfolio.com/brlowmacep Many retained the frame for the container, which meant they couldn't be used as conventional Lowmacs - I suspect useful for when loaded with a damaged wagon. Paul Edited July 5, 2018 by hmrspaul 1 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rail-Online Posted July 5, 2018 Author Share Posted July 5, 2018 I seem to recall (but stand to be corrected) some also worked to the Heap Bridge, Lancashire paper mill of Yates Duxbury, . .......................Exit stage left, bound for the man cave and photographic evidence to justify this claim ! Now you mention it I think you are spot on there - I recall a slightly high level photo of the tank shunting one of these...... Must be in an early industrial loco book Tony 1 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mol_PMB Posted July 29, 2021 Share Posted July 29, 2021 (edited) Reviving an old thread, but one which may be relevant - do you think the two wagons in the foreground of this photo might be converted lowmacs? Manchester No.9 dock, mid 1969. I'm pretty sure I can see a flat portion by the buffers, then the deck sloping down towards where the container is mounted. I wonder if these were still in BR service or if they had been sold to the Manchester Ship Canal Railway? Mol Edited July 29, 2021 by Mol_PMB determined a more accurate date for the photo 1 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mol_PMB Posted July 29, 2021 Share Posted July 29, 2021 A couple more not in Manchester, found in another thread... 14 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fat Controller Posted July 29, 2021 Share Posted July 29, 2021 BR seemed to have modified a considerable number of Lowmacs (LMS and LNER-built, as well as BR) for this traffic. All the photos I've seen have been around the Liverpool docks; it would be interested to see where they worked to and from. 1 1 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Wickham Green too Posted July 29, 2021 Share Posted July 29, 2021 3 hours ago, Mol_PMB said: Reviving an old thread, but one which may be relevant - do you think the two wagons in the foreground of this photo might be converted lowmacs? Manchester No.9 dock, mid 1969. I'm pretty sure I can see a flat portion by the buffers, then the deck sloping down towards where the container is mounted. I reckon those containers are too long to fit the well of a lowmac !!?! Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Premium Clive Mortimore Posted July 29, 2021 RMweb Premium Share Posted July 29, 2021 1 hour ago, Wickham Green too said: I reckon those containers are too long to fit the well of a lowmac !!?! They are 20 ft containers. Lowmacs with the frames (did 1/59) could carry a 20 ft container. https://paulbartlett.zenfolio.com/brlowmacep 2 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
SteveyDee68 Posted July 30, 2021 Share Posted July 30, 2021 (edited) The ones that “worked to the continent” - if on a train ferry, I assume chained over the buffer stocks? I can’t see evidence of ferry fittings (then again, I’m peering at a mobile phone screen!!) Steve S Update Just spotted what looks like the ferry “anchor” symbol on the side of the 30th photo - but can’t see tie downs etc Edited July 30, 2021 by SteveyDee68 2 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mol_PMB Posted July 30, 2021 Share Posted July 30, 2021 I just found a very nice photo of one of these on Flickr: Latterly in Engineers' use, many of these seem to have been lettered 'Load not to exceed 3 tons' (see also Paul Bartlett's photos). I assume that didn't apply when they were in container service - it would only be just enough for an empty box. The diagram 1/059 doesn't give a load capacity other than 1 20ft ISO container. The capacity of the lowmac itself was 25t, so subtracting maybe 1t for the frame would leave 24t for the container and its load, which should be sufficient for most loads. 10 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Wickham Green too Posted July 30, 2021 Share Posted July 30, 2021 So what on earth did the Engineers use them for - without a flat bed added ? ........ or did the Engineers have a need to transport containers ? Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mol_PMB Posted July 30, 2021 Share Posted July 30, 2021 2 minutes ago, Wickham Green too said: So what on earth did the Engineers use them for - without a flat bed added ? ........ or did the Engineers have a need to transport containers ? Good question. Several photos on Paul Bartlett's website show them as runner wagons between bogie flats carrying overhanging rails. 1 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fat Controller Posted July 30, 2021 Share Posted July 30, 2021 18 minutes ago, Mol_PMB said: Good question. Several photos on Paul Bartlett's website show them as runner wagons between bogie flats carrying overhanging rails. With the frames in-situ, they would be used as runner wagons with overhanging loads like rails and beams; also as spacer wagons on trains carrying concrete beams. 1 1 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Railfreight1998 Posted July 31, 2021 Share Posted July 31, 2021 Wonder how many models have been made of them? I made a (fairly rough) version of one a while back, though it's still not entirely finished. 8 1 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mol_PMB Posted July 31, 2021 Share Posted July 31, 2021 I would definitely like to make one in O gauge for my Manchester Ship Canal layout. 1 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
watfordtmc Posted July 31, 2021 Share Posted July 31, 2021 A couple of other images: A small, not very good quality image, of E230494 (Ref 1). However, the photo was taken at Hull and the accompanying article stated that ‘…single 20’ containers are loaded at Hull to many inland centres on converted “Lowmac” wagons…’ which give another area of operation. Also a colour image of E260857 in use as a runner wagon in 1976 (Ref 2). References ISO and freightliner containers, Easton K, Railway Modeller Aug 1970, vol 21, no. 238, pp 252. Camera & Comment, Vincent M, Model Railways Sept 1988, vol 5, no. 9, pp 435. Regards TMc 31/07/2021 1 1 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mol_PMB Posted July 31, 2021 Share Posted July 31, 2021 Many thanks. I think the BR official photos (on Paul Bartlett's website) were also at Hull. Good to have it confirmed that that was a regular operation. I've been looking through a few of my books and found an image of DE278486, in engineers' use at Newton Abbott in 1983. This has lost its frame but still carries 'CONFLAT ISO' branding on the solebar. That's in 'LNER wagons before 1948 vol.1', Railways in profile series No.13 (Cheona publications). Thanks, Mol 1 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Satan's Goldfish Posted August 4, 2021 Share Posted August 4, 2021 (edited) On 31/07/2021 at 12:01, Railfreight1998 said: Wonder how many models have been made of them? I made a (fairly rough) version of one a while back, though it's still not entirely finished. i have 2x in progress... i say in progress, what i mean is i have 2x Lowmacs that i've no other use for and plan on building the cradles at some point in the future. Plus to fit the rest of my era and stock they will need to be a fictional (i believe) air braked/piped version and running well out of prototype time scale, so i'm not hurrying the build along. Nice to see a picture of model though with a box on, good work. Edited August 4, 2021 by Satan's Goldfish 4 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mol_PMB Posted August 8, 2021 Share Posted August 8, 2021 (edited) Some more information on these vehicles, which may be of use to modellers. Around 100 conversions were done in 1966, and they initially operated from Goole and Hull, later it seems that Liverpool and Manchester were also centres of operation. They remained in ISO container use until around 1970, but were soon superseded by the rapid growth of the Freightliner network. Most ended up as runner wagons for long loads, or in engineers' use. The following wagons were converted to CONFLAT ISO diag 1/059 (this may not be a complete list). I have found photos of those listed in bold with the CONFLAT ISO branding and/or frame; photos do exist of some others on this list with the frames removed and the wagons rebranded for engineers' use: 22 wagons ex-LNER diag 143 'MAC NV' (LNER Darlington, 1939): E230916, E230921, E230925, E230926, E230928, E230942, E230943, E230944, E230945, E230946, E230948, E230949, E230950, E230951, E230952, E230953, E230955, E230956, E230959, E230960, E230963, E230967 There is no horizontal section of frame behind the headstock. 34 wagons ex-LNER diag 173 'MAC PV', comprising three different lots (LNER Darlington, 1943-1945): E260848, E260850, E260853, E260855, E260857, E260868, E260869, E260870, E260875, E260877 E263276, E263277, E263278, E263280, E263281, E263283, E263285, E263286, E263287, E263288, E263295, E278486, E278488, E278490, E278491, E278492, E278495, E278496, E278498, E278500, E278502, E278503, E278505, E278508 These were an uprated version of the 'MAC NV' to carry heavier loads. The frame is deeper and has a horizontal top behind the headstock, but the bottom is sloped right to the headstock. 8 wagons ex-LMS diag P54A 'LOWMAC MO' (LNER Shildon 1944): M700708, M700709, M700710, M700713, M700714, M700717, M700721, M700722 Although these were owned by the LMS, they were built by the LNER and look very similar to the diag 173 'MAC PV'. 7 wagons ex-BR diag 2/242 'Lowmac EP' / 'Lowmac SC' (P W McLellan 1950): B904500, B904505, B904508, B904516, B904517, B904521, B904527 These also have a very close resemblance to the diag 173 'MAC PV'. 28 wagons ex-BR diag 2/253 'Lowmac MS' / 'Lowmac SH' / 'Lowmac WP', comprising two different lots: All of B904695 to B904709 (photos: B904699, B904701) (Derbyshire, 1958) All of B904710 to B904722 (Swindon, 1959) The frame has a horizontal top and bottom behind the headstock, before the start of the slope. A much more substantial reinforcing bracket is fitted in this area. There were other subtle differences between all the different diagrams, so choose your prototype carefully! I'm starting from a kit from diagram 2/242 because that's the only type I can find a kit for. Hope that's of use, Mol Edited August 19, 2021 by Mol_PMB correction to typo 2 2 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mol_PMB Posted August 8, 2021 Share Posted August 8, 2021 Here's another view of a former Conflat ISO, E278486, which has lost its frame but still has the branding. It's also a rather good view of the arrangement of wooden planking and steel sheeting on the deck of these vehicles: There was another sort of wagon converted to carry ISO containers, which was the Boplate. However, the floor was too high for full-height containers to be conveyed; they were used for half-height and flatbed ISO containers which were more common in the early days. Here are three examples in later life: All found on Flickr and posted by Jamerail. 3 2 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fat Controller Posted August 8, 2021 Share Posted August 8, 2021 There were also some wagons branded 'Conflat Clay', which were simply Boplate-Es that retained their sides and ends.They carried a pair of 20' half-height open ISO boxes, working between Cornwall and Avonmouth Docks. I saw one, B947946, at the latter in 1976/7 1 2 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
hmrspaul Posted August 8, 2021 Share Posted August 8, 2021 Here are more of the Conflat ISO FEW with details https://PaulBartlett.zenfolio.com/brconflatiso Paul 2 1 1 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
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