Warren Branch

[Harlequin]

Argh, Chris! I thought you had the track plan sorted out long ago!

 

I'm not sure about two means of access to the good yard. I like the level crossing but it's more difficult to justify it if there's easier access across the canal. Secondly, If there were only one means of access then it should be slightly easier to lay out the yard.

 

Using the run round loop spur as a refuge for the brake van is a great idea. On top of that the basic elements are: shed siding, a long back siding for unloading from wagons (inc. coal) and a siding for storing vans and wagons before/after unloading.

 

To lay out the yard efficiently combine the road access to the shed and the back siding. The best arrangement would seem to be: Shed siding, Storage siding (terminating against shed wall), <Gap for road vehicle access>, Back siding, or the opposite.

 

Then hopefully the cattle dock and yard crane will find natural positions (erm...). You don't need coal staithes if that would help because it was common to unload coal directly from wagons onto lorries/carts.

 

Final thought: You could get more space in the yard by building a retaining wall hard against the canal.

 

Edited May 30, 2019 by Harlequin

[chuffinghell]

44 minutes ago, Harlequin said:

Argh, Chris! I thought you had the track plan sorted out long ago!

 

Me too but when suggestions are made it's only polite to at least play around with them and I am warming to the suggestion of opening out the goods yard area

 

44 minutes ago, Harlequin said:

I'm not sure about two means of access to the good yard. I like the level crossing but it's more difficult to justify it if there's easier access across the canal. Secondly, If there were only one means of access then it should be slightly easier to lay out the yard.

 

As far as the level crossing is concerned I think (know) you are right, I too like it despite it's position causing previous controversy so I've been playing with the idea of loosing it for a while

 

44 minutes ago, Harlequin said:

Using the run round loop spur as a refuge for the brake van is a great idea. On top of that the basic elements are: shed siding, a long back siding for unloading from wagons (inc. coal) and a siding for storing vans and wagons before/after unloading.

 

 

I thought so too, I was playing it out in my head operating one loco in steam and realised I could

1) drop off a brake van in the spur

2) position the wagons for off loading

3) go back for the brake van

4) collect the now empty wagons

5) pull the wagons into the run a round loop

5) leave the wagons and run a round to t'other end

6) couple up at the other end with the brake van at the right end (wrong way round though)

 

44 minutes ago, Harlequin said:

To lay out the yard efficiently combine the road access to the shed and the back siding. The best arrangement would seem to be: Shed siding, Storage siding (terminating against shed wall), <Gap for road vehicle access>, Back siding, or the opposite.

 

Errrrrm 

 

44 minutes ago, Harlequin said:

Then hopefully the cattle dock and yard crane will find natural positions (erm...). You don't need coal staithes if that would help because it was common to unload coal directly from wagons onto lorries/carts.

 

I hope so..........I'll have a think about the coal staithes/coal merchants, it depends on whether or not it looks too busy

 

44 minutes ago, Harlequin said:

Final thought: You could get more space in the yard by building a retaining wall hard against the canal

 

That's a possibility, although to be honest I still prefer the idea of a stream (difficult to draw wiggly lines on CAD)

 

Final thought: Fortunately non of the suggestions alter the bare bones of the track plan so I can at least continue laying the track as planned

 

 

Edited May 30, 2019 by chuffinghell

[chuffinghell]

Just playing around, comments welcome

 

Feel free to sketch any ideas on the drawing 

[Stubby47]

Would having the end loading dock beyond the goods shed mean that locos would have to travel through the shed ?  I thought this was a no-no, due to the  amount of smoke it would leave inside the shed.

 

I would also possibly expect the ground level around the end loading dock to be level with the platform surface, so dispensing with the need for ramps, etc.

Edited May 30, 2019 by Stubby47

[chuffinghell]

9 minutes ago, Stubby47 said:

Would having the end loading dock beyond the goods shed mean that locos would have to travel through the shed ?  I thought this was a no-no, due to the  amount of smoke it would leave inside the shed.

 

Opps I'd not thought of that, I've been thinking one dimensionally with the loco reversing the whole rake of wagons into the shed not realising the loco would potentially be moving individual wagons in and out

 

 

Edited May 30, 2019 by chuffinghell

[chuffinghell]

32 minutes ago, Stubby47 said:

I would also possibly expect the ground level around the end loading dock to be level with the platform surface, so dispensing with the need for ramps, etc.

 

I'm best coming back to this and finish laying the track 

[Harlequin]

This doesn't completely work and might not be feasible but FWIW it does some of what I was talking about above:

 

Sidings pushed out to edges leaving shared central yard space. Road vehicle access only across the bridge, past yard office and weighbridge, around end of shed line into open yard with access to both the shed loading bay, the yard crane and the back siding for coal unloading.

No end loading and not clear where the cattle dock might go.

Edited May 30, 2019 by Harlequin

[Martin S-C]

When building up an outgoing goods I thought it was correct practice to first get the brake van and run round it then place it against the buffer stops of the platform road and leave it there, shunting the entire assembled train onto it just prior to departure. Having the brake van attached to the engine while shunting adds a lot of unnecessary weight to the train as you assemble it, plus it blocks the crews line of sight to the wagons they are sorting.

I'd caution against trying to add everything, that way just lies a cluttered look. I agree that on second thoughts, coal bins are not necessary. Coal could be unloaded direct into sacks weighed and bagged from the wagon and loaded directly onto the coal merchants cart, or there could be a couple of coal heaps of different grades just piled away from the track. Coal discharge would definitely have its own area but it doesn't need to be limited to right opposite the coal bins.

An end loading dock would almost certainly not be at the end of the goods shed road, however Highworth, Wiltshire provides a contrary example. Wagons would be pinched-barred up to this dock, or hauled there and back via the yard horse so that locos did not need to enter the shed. Moving wagons about a model goods yard without a loco is always awkward because unless you set up some complex and expensive means of chains, wires or motorised wagons, it means pushing them via the good old Mk.1 finger. I think quite a few railway modellers shunt in ways that are too complex and involved when the reality was the goods train would drop off a few wagons in one siding and the yard crew, shunters and horse would do ALL the moving about needed to get them onto other sidings or against facilities like cranes, cattle docks, into goods sheds and so on.

An arrangement I liked at Highworth, was the cattle dock was beyond the platform and occupied one side of the loco run around release track. In later years when livestock traffic dropped off this became the milk dock and I have photos of it full of milk churns.

 

[chuffinghell]

Not sure if I've fully understood @Stubby47 and again I'm only playing about

[chuffinghell]

18 minutes ago, Harlequin said:

This doesn't completely work and might not be feasible but FWIW it does some of what I was talking about above:

 

Sidings pushed out to edges leaving shared central yard space. Road vehicle access only across the bridge, past yard office and weighbridge, around end of shed line into open yard with access to both the shed loading bay, the yard crane and the back siding for coal unloading.

No end loading and not clear where the cattle dock might go.

 

I quite like that, although I've got the GS orientated so you can see the off loading area.

 

Thought I could have a vehicle of some sort in the process of being loaded up

[chuffinghell]

10 minutes ago, Martin S-C said:

When building up an outgoing goods I thought it was correct practice to first get the brake van and run round it then place it against the buffer stops of the platform road and leave it there, shunting the entire assembled train onto it just prior to departure. Having the brake van attached to the engine while shunting adds a lot of unnecessary weight to the train as you assemble it, plus it blocks the crews line of sight to the wagons they are sorting

 

Opps 

 

I'm sure I'll get it right eventually

[Martin S-C]

16 minutes ago, chuffinghell said:

 

I quite like that, although I've got the GS orientated so you can see the off loading area.

 

Thought I could have a vehicle of some sort in the process of being loaded up

My intention is to have a variety of horse drawn road vehicles and I'll swap these about or move them as needed.

[chuffinghell]

5 hours ago, Martin S-C said:

When building up an outgoing goods I thought it was correct practice to first get the brake van and run round it then place it against the buffer stops of the platform road and leave it there, shunting the entire assembled train onto it just prior to departure. Having the brake van attached to the engine while shunting adds a lot of unnecessary weight to the train as you assemble it, plus it blocks the crews line of sight to the wagons they are sorting.

 

 

I’ve taken this on board and have put magnets in the track at the far left hand side of the run a round

 

so that as the goods train arrives it leaves the brake van in the loop at the right hand end and continues on to drop off the wagons for unloading

 

before the driver and fireman go for a brew they go back along the platform side of the run a round and then back to push the abandoned brake van up to the buffers (far left of the loop)

 

they abandon it there and then pop off for a brew and a firemans shovel breakfast (see note below)

 

after breakfast they make sure the loco is also fed and watered before arranging the wagons which the deposit in the loop

 

once again they travel along the platform side of the run a round, collect the wagons and push them up to the brake van and away they go

 

Note: Sir Flat’um Capp (the mildly obese controller) is of course unaware of his crew having an extended break so they would be grateful if you keep it to yourselves 

[chuffinghell]

Goods train arrives

 

Leaves brake van

 

Moves wagons into the goods yard

[chuffinghell]

Returns along the platform side of the loop and pushes the brake van into place

 

and goes back back for the wagons

[chuffinghell]

Returns along the platform side of the loop

 

pushes the wagons up to the brake van

 

and chuffs off

 

if if this is wrong, I give up

[chuffinghell]

They could of course drop the brake van off in the spur and have their brew first as long as they remember to pull it back into the loop

 

This would keep the loop clear for re arrangement of wagons maybe?

[chuffinghell]

Opps I never thought to check the longest goods loco before drilling for the magnets  luckily I’ve gotten away with moving one further towards the buffer

 

 

Now my Dean Goods just about fits....whether is still runs is another matter 

 

 

only three quarters of an inch difference but enough 

 

Edited May 30, 2019 by chuffinghell

[NHY 581]

Bonjour Chuffers.  

 

There's s lot to be said for a good shunting session. 

 

It's very good for the soul. 

 

 

Splendid stuff. 

 

Rob. 

[Andrew P]

8 hours ago, chuffinghell said:

Not sure if I've fully understood @Stubby47 and again I'm only playing about

Best idea for C/D and End Loading IMO, BUT I would have thought the Brake Van would have gone into the long Siding, ready to attach Vans to it for departure.

I'm glad to see the Level crossing gone, it looks far neater and more realistic mate.

[chuffinghell]

10 minutes ago, Andrew P said:

Best idea for C/D and End Loading IMO, BUT I would have thought the Brake Van would have gone into the long Siding, ready to attach Vans to it for departure.

I'm glad to see the Level crossing gone, it looks far neater and more realistic mate.

 

Still undecided about a cattle dock and I’m not sure that I really want to go down the end loading route to be honest but I might change my mind

 

I don’t want to cram in too much, I prefer a ‘less is more’ approach

 

After having a ‘play’ this evening the spur off the run around loop seams to work best for dumping the brake vans

 

I am sad to see the level crossing go but it make sense for it to be removed

 

At the moment the main focus is on getting the track laid, wired and tested. I can worry about building placement afterwards as it’s difficult to imagine in a 2D plan

[chuffinghell]

Thinking of putting a barrow crossing across the entrance to the engine shed. Would this be plausible?

[Stubby47]

An alternative sequence for goods arrival & departure:

  Train arrives into the loop.
  Loco detaches and runs round via the platform line.
  Loco collects the guards van, which is then propelled via the platform line to the headshunt.
  Loco is then free to shunt wagons around as required.
  Once the train for departure is made up, it's left in the loop, the loco detaches, runs round via the platform then pushes the whole train to collect the guards van.

 

Not sure how having a brew or breakfast fits into this though.

 

Thinking further, a possible problem with leaving the guards van in the short siding (or any siding on the right half of the yard) is retrieving it again when there are wagons in the loop.  You'll need a large enough gap between the point and the wagons to fit the loco and van in (esp. harder if using the Dean).

Edited May 31, 2019 by Stubby47

[chuffinghell]

2 minutes ago, Stubby47 said:

Not sure how having a brew or breakfast fits into this though.

 

Just my stupid sense of humour 

[Stubby47]

17 minutes ago, chuffinghell said:

Thinking of putting a barrow crossing across the entrance to the engine shed. Would this be plausible?

 

 

I'd have thought the ground around the engine shed would be compacted enough to not need a barrow crossing - unless you specifically have a route the barrows need to follow to get somewhere.