Nether Madder and Green Soudley Rly

[Martin S-C]

30 years might be pushing it... but I'd like to think 20 to 25 is do-able.

I wonder what the model railway industry will be like in 2043?

[lezz01]

Probably it'll be all maglevs and monorails. Well that's what they promised us back in the 70's. Although I'm not seeing much of that and it's 2018 already. The first draft of Milton Keynes had an all singing and dancing monorail but it vanished up it's own exhaust pipe and sadly became roundabouts and duel carriageways.  Now that'll be a challenge T scale maglev. 

Regards Lez.Z. 

Edited August 15, 2018 by lezz01

[Nearholmer]

"duel carriageways"

 

So much more polite and formal than out-and-out road rage.

[Martin S-C]

My spelling and grammar is improving on this forum faster than it did at school. You people are merciless!

[lezz01]

Yeh everyone's a critic. Dyslexia rules KO I say.  

Regards Lez.Z. 

[Nearholmer]

Sorry Lez.

 

It was an image that I couldn't resist.

 

Toy trains 25 years down the road? Software that can read an old B&W photo, translate what it is 'seeing' into a draft 3D representation that you then edit. Library of standard chassis on-line, select and edit to match WB and diameter, and motor and gear-ratio. Order from robotised factory, which whips-up one for you using a range of technologies and materials, assembling it for you if you want, otherwise sending you a kit. Locos all battery-powered and wireless-controlled.

 

This cuts out all 'middle-men', so Hornby etc barely exist, and the "commissioner period" is drawing to a close. hobbyists interact direct with the robots that make stuff ........ just as they do to create a host of other things, from coffee mugs to cars, possibly even houses.

 

Fewer people pursuing the hobby, but covering a much broader spread of time-periods and prototypes, in a vast array of scales.

 

Sheds and spare bedrooms are still at the core of the hobby, as they have been since it started. Railway Modeller is carefully considering how to update its house-style, so that it continues to look mildly-dated and conservative, without actually quite looking archaic.

Edited August 15, 2018 by Nearholmer

[Alex TM]

Probably it'll be all maglevs and monorails. Well that's what they promised us back in the 70's. Although I'm not seeing much of that and it's 2018 already. The first draft of Milton Keynes had an all singing and dancing monorail but it vanished up it's own exhaust pipe and sadly became roundabouts and duel carriageways.  Now that'll be a challenge T scale maglev. 

Regards Lez.Z. 

Some of my neighbours wished that the trams had disappeared up a similar pipe!

[lezz01]

Actually I think that everything will be 3d printed by then all you will buy is the computer file and your 3d printer will build it all for you. We are nearly there anyway with the cost of printers dropping like a stone. There will only be food shops everything will be printed at home. Maybe even food will go as well and everyone will have a replicator a la star trek. All we need is hyper computers and a suitable power source, zpm's maybe. I probably won't be here to see it but maybe my grand kiddies will.

Regards Lez.Z.       

[Martin S-C]

My daughter is now 23 and when she is my age (say 35 years time) I do ponder over what kind of world she will be living in. I have sweats over whether it will be a utopia, or a post-apocalyptic desert... With globalisation making everyone's economies more intertwined the potential backlash from financial collapse does not bear thinking about, yet the awesome technology and medical advances we'll enjoy make me consider if almost-immortality might not be a reality by then.

 

Who will pay the costs for old folks homes? 75% of us will be pensioners.

I expect heritage railways will still be a thing however, as will industrial archaeology and history. I don't see anything eradicating those. Little children will still gawp and wonder at steam engines, I am sure.

[runs as required]

I was most interested to read of the discussions you had with the builder, and recalling your earlier posts about upgrading the structure.

It sounds like you are accepting a trade off about a clear internal operating layout width vis a viz lavish insulation.

Might I also suggest two things:

1

You could provide maximum clear operating width at say the desired minimum height of the layout (remembering it is multi level) and above. That means you could have more insulation lower down - perhaps behind lower storage units thus dispensing with plasterboard lining at lower level.

2

My son in law has commissioned three studio theatre spaces during his career as a theatre director. I have been impressed by his learning curve in successively cutting the  spec. of internal finishes and electrics - thereby facilitating more freedom for adventurous theatrical production design and lighting - often for shows that will afterwards be taken on tour.

I suggest this might likewise be the performance spec. for a railway room - the layout itself (or successive layouts) are the furnishings, fittings and lighting, like exhibition stand design, and are demountable and capable of being stashed in a Transit van and re-erected elsewhere and connected up to electrics. For a railway room a lot of the IKEA catalogue's storage, racking, office stuff and lighting might be worth exploring.

Basically you need build in no more than a distribution board, the heating/a.c. unit you mentioned, emergency lighting, 2/3 power points and a decent floor finish that helps you find delicate bits of Walschearts gear dropped from work stations. Will you also have water sink and drainage?

dh

[Martin S-C]

It sounds like you are accepting a trade off about a clear internal operating layout width vis a viz lavish insulation.

Absolutely! Maintaining a minimum internal width of 7ft 6ins is a very high priority, and I'd like to get 7ft 8ins if possible. Every inch of width impacts my minimum radius curve. That gives me only 2ins or at most 3ins per wall depth for the battening and plasterboard. Given ~30mm battens and plasterboard of ~1/2 ins thickness I still get ~2 1/2 to 3 ins depth of insulating material because the concrete panels are shaped with ribs and recesses, a bit like an egg box. The battens will be secured against the ribs and thus the recess is deeper.

 

 

I am happy to have thicker insulation on the 2 end walls however.

 

No, I don't need water and a sink, or even workbench space - that all happens in the house. The garage is 100% model railway space, plus storage under it.

 

I have asked for 8x double power points. I could probably cut that down to 4. I need to consider where the main DCC controller box(es) will be sited.

 

Yes, I could deepen the insulation lower down but this will impact the layout support legs which will have to be moved inboard from the baseboard edge. Given that most heat loss happens upwards I am not entirely convinced that adding several inches to the lowest 36" of the walls will have much effect. I could increase insulation depth of the top 12" of the walls but this would look a little strange.

[Podhunter]

I have asked for 8x double power points. I could probably cut that down to 4. I need to consider where the main DCC controller box(es) will be sited.

 

Yes, I could deepen the insulation lower down but this will impact the layout support legs which will have to be moved inboard from the baseboard edge. Given that most heat loss happens upwards I am not entirely convinced that adding several inches to the lowest 36" of the walls will have much effect. I could increase insulation depth of the top 12" of the walls but this would look a little strange.

Stick with 8, distributed around the room.  They are cheap to specify at installation stage, and that keeps the mains wiring neat.  Reducing the number means that, at some time, you are more likely to end up with trailing cables.  Trailing mains cables = bad.

Edited August 20, 2018 by Podhunter

[runs as required]

Stick with 8, distributed around the room.  They are cheap to specify at installation stage, and that keeps the mains wiring neat.  Reducing the number means that, at some time, you are more likely to end up with trailing cables.  Trailing cables = bad.

The spec derived from the basic theatre builds I was suggesting envisaged a basic insulated shell and an interior layout that was like a sectional exhibition stand providing the finishes - all cabling would run throught the fittings.

Martin's comments suggest a series of conventional flat baseboard supported on legs (with upper levels bearing onto the base level ?). Also he is lining with plasterboard, so I do agree the max number of double switched power points mounted on the plasterboard is preferable.

But at what level around the room?

One more suggestion: my experience with DCC (a good one incidentally) means I would want to be able to easily lift in and out and invert baseboard sections so as to be able to easily re-work using a soldering iron wiring and electronics as my ambitions developed. That would also aid future exhibition at shows.

dh

dh

[Martin S-C]

I expect there will be a full open frame baseboard at datum level (46 ins) with the raised sections under the stations on sub boards with small legs. Much of the trackage between stations, it turns out, will be going up or down inclines and these will be supported by that new funky compressed plastic foam material whose name escapes me at the moment but of which our American cousins are inordinately fond.

I like the idea of easily liftable or removable sections or modules. This not only aids technical fault finding and such but can greatly help modelling work by detaching a module from the main boards (see KNPs Little Muddle thread). The current plan (see P.1) has red lines denoting baseboard breaks but some of these boards are pretty chunky so I may break these down into smaller sections. Lifting sections means more rail joins though and there's going to be stacks of them already.

 

I'll probably put power points at about 24" to 36" height - it depends what IKEA(?) storage units I settle on to fit under the railway. It may transpire that the whole layout rests on various cupboards and whatever sections I exhibit will be fitted with temporary legs.

Okay - I'll go with the original 8 double powerpoints. I was thinking of clustering them around the mid-point of the two long walls as that is where the main stations will be and where the main DCC power unit will (probably) be. I could have a couple at one end for the heater/air-con unit and a fridge.

Edited August 17, 2018 by Martin S-C

[Nearholmer]

Ikea kitchen units underneath work, and they are as good or better value than the competition.

 

My main ‘wish i’d done differently’ point is lack of access to the underside of the baseboards. This isn’t crucial in coarse-land, because wiring is fairly limited and there is no shame in flaunting it, but it is occasionally a nuisance, especially on the board with a turntable, which is a right fernangle to extract and work on, and it needs work on the latches to index to each road, which has been put-off as a result.

[south_tyne]

 

I'll probably put power points at about 24" to 36" height - it depends what IKEA(?) storage units I settle on to fit under the railway. It may transpire that the whole layout rests on various cupboards and whatever sections I exhibit will be fitted with temporary legs.

 

 

I think that is an excellent idea. Means a good solid surface on which to build from, offers lots of storage space and also will help to keep things near and tidy. If you can afford it then I would progress with such a design.

[Martin S-C]

My concern though is getting at the underneath gubbins. I'd have to arrange hinges on the far edge to raise the boards up with a support like a car bonnet has. Do-able, just more to think about as I'll need to design and buy all the supporting cupboards before baseboard construction begins - or at least source them and buy as construction proceeds.

And as a change of pace here are some coal and quarry wagons that I have been having a go at, trying different weathering tricks.

[DonB]

Hinges !

Have you considered hinges as used on built-in and Kitchen furniture? Available as 90 degree or 170 degree opening.

 

Don

[Martin S-C]

Yes, hinges is the way to go, with multi-pin cable connectors for track power, etc, and a drop-down wood or metal bar as a prop to keep it safely raised.

I need to sample the delights of a trip to IKEA and look at what storage options they offer. Alternatively, get a cabinet maker to knock me something up in cheapish materials; at least that way I'd get the exact height with doors/drawers of the right dimensions for stock boxes, etc.

There's two or three lengthy tunnels on the plan which will need access and this will have to be from underneath via gaps in the open baseboard framing, so these areas must remain open and "supporting storage furniture free".

[Stubby47]

Put the under cupboards on castors, so they can be rolled out of the way if necessary.

 

Unless, of course, your layout boards are resting on them.

[Nearholmer]

Good idea, but you might need to add strengthening members to ‘cheap’ kichen cupboards to permit this; they aren’t really very strong structures, relying on the wall, the worktop, and one another for stability. You can buy cupboards designed to go on wheels, but I think they cost a bit more.

Edited August 20, 2018 by Nearholmer

[runs as required]

I suspect the answer to how to tilt (and prop) may emerge also from considering how to work on the undersides of all the boards as well as checking they can be removed for exhibition/visiting other railway rooms - in other words enabling a degree of modularisation.

But a walk around IKEA (preferably in the quiet just before closing time) I'd recommend to anyone thinking about thieving, sorry, borrowing/adapting some ingenious design ideas.

PS

I do remember working on a standard scheme for modularised laboratory benching years ago - a waist rail around the wall with thin inverted L shaped timber or RHS leg brackets that locked onto the waist rail to support solid sections of lab bench and lots of different storage stuff that sledded in underneath. Still to be found (locally sourced) in lot of "new" universities through the Commonwealth.

I put it into our kitch here on Tyneside when moving in 40 odd years ago; different bits of kit above and below its basics has come and gone over the years.

dh

Edited August 20, 2018 by runs as required

[Martin S-C]

My thinking at present that the cupboards and drawer units will support the layout, with hinges to allow the baseboards to be raised for maintenance. In this scenario I won't need wheeled cupboards unless they are parked into the gaps between the fixed furniture and rolled out for access to incidents inside the tunnels.

This should allow baseboards to be lifted off and transported to exhibitions, with a set of legs provided for that. I could even build a modular fiddle yard board specifically for exhibiting.

I had thought of carcasses of kitchen units but was aware they are not that sturdy on their own. I was thinking more along the lines of units built from ply with open shelving to store boxes of stock in, etc. Cupboard doors would close or slide across the fronts.

I shall play about with a few sketches.

[Corbs]

My personal advice would be to get wheel-out cupboards and have the layout support itself, dude. In the case of needing to access under/behind the layout, it's much easier to pull a set of drawers out on wheels than hinge up a big heavy layout that has lots of loose items (stock etc). What I do is have lots of drawers on wheels under my layout/desk etc. I often swap them around depending on what I am working on, so I can have the most useful one close to hand.

[runs as required]

 it's much easier to pull a set of drawers out on wheels than hinge up a big heavy layout that has lots of loose items (stock etc)...

Do you solder much below your fixed boards Corbs?

Even with a cut down chair someone suggested so I could easily wheel in and out to access the underside I really hated changing wiring around, soldering upside down above my head - that was even before my eyesight deteriorated and I could never properly see the wires so close up.