Location help 47471

[woodenhead]

I'm not at all convinced but it *might* be Eltham before the station was rebuilt and the A20 dual carriageway was built. 

Well Hall gardens which date back to the 13th Century would be approximately where those industrial buildings are so it probably isn't Eltham.

 

But you raise an important point, the world has changed a lot since the 80s making identifying the scene very difficult if we are looking at a scene that no longer exists except for the railway line.

[Wickham Green]

I'm not at all convinced but it *might* be Eltham before the station was rebuilt and the A20 dual carriageway was built. 

Did wonder about Eltham .......... but I think it would have to be very late in the day to get the the angle of the sun like that - and that's unlikely for a down working by a Crewe loco .......................................... might check out my Middleton Press volume when I get home, though !.

[iands]

 

But you raise an important point, the world has changed a lot since the 80s making identifying the scene very difficult if we are looking at a scene that no longer exists except for the railway line.

 

Or, as we are talking 30 and a bit years ago, has the railway actually disappeared? Have any routes closed in that part of the world in the last 30 years?

 

Regards, Ian.

[guzzler17]

Or, as we are talking 30 and a bit years ago, has the railway actually disappeared? Have any routes closed in that part of the world in the last 30 years?

 

Regards, Ian.

 

I was going to pose that question but a cup of tea and piece of cake got in the way.

 

The only Southern Region double track electrified line that I know of that's been closed in the past 40 years is the one from Woodside to Selsdon Jn.  Closure came in 1983 with the track and structures mostly history by late 1984.  That probably rules any of the 3 intermediate stations but for a while I thought that Bingham Lane was a possibility.

[melmoth]

 

The only Southern Region double track electrified line that I know of that's been closed in the past 40 years is the one from Woodside to Selsdon Jn. 

 

Also the Folkestone Harbour branch.

[woodenhead]

Or, as we are talking 30 and a bit years ago, has the railway actually disappeared? Have any routes closed in that part of the world in the last 30 years?

 

Regards, Ian.

Probably not, but the landscape around it may have changed immensely, especially buildings by the side of the line.

[Trains4U]

Probably not, but the landscape around it may have changed immensely, especially buildings by the side of the line.

 

Could you imagine trying to identify Finsbury park or even Stratford works just using google maps...

Edited September 6, 2018 by Trains4U

[iands]

Could you imagine trying to identify Finsbury park or even Stratford works just using google maps...

 

Definitely not. Which is why I've been using a combination of Quail Maps, Southern Track Diagrams, 5-mile diagrams, Sectional Appendices and Google maps to try and narrow down a location. All to no avail thus far. As has been noted above, such a lot of things will have changed during the intervening years that unless you were perhaps a regular traveller over that line/user of the station, or lived nearby, then identification now, particularly from Google maps alone, would be nigh on impossible. In fact, even with a number of track diagrams/maps available, it is proving a very difficult nut to crack. And I think I've gleaned all the clues I can from the photo.

 

I think this might remain a mystery for quite a while yet.

 

Regards, Ian.

[acg5324]

I'm not at all convinced but it *might* be Eltham before the station was rebuilt and the A20 dual carriageway was built.

 

Eltham came up on my list fairly early on but the curve behind the station doesn’t exist. New Eltham had a CLASP building. The A20 may well have affected the track layout.

[Enterprisingwestern]

To think slightly laterally, what route would a North West to South East and return train take around London? (Assuming of course that is what it is).

I only know how the Sheffield to SR trains such as Merrymakers did it, from the back of Clapham Junction to somewhere on one of the main lines depending upon the eventual destination.

Maybe if the posssible route can be identified then the station might be easier to find?

 

Mike.

[PM47079]

Hi Jason,

 

There seems to be a bit of a gap in 47471's allocation history. According to the BRDatabase info it was allocated to York in 1974, and then no more allocations until its scrapping in 2004. On this basis I was going to offer the suggestion it might be working something like a Newcastle-Poole service, in the hope this might narrow down the route. But if it was a Crewe loco during the suggested period, I'll go along with your plausible suggestion of perhaps somewhere on the Wirral.

 

Regards, Ian.

Apart from a brief spell at Carlisle kingmoor from 9/85 to 5/87 it was Crewe based from 5/79 till withdrawal. The loco was repainted out of blue 7/87

[acg5324]

To think slightly laterally, what route would a North West to South East and return train take around London? (Assuming of course that is what it is).

I only know how the Sheffield to SR trains such as Merrymakers did it, from the back of Clapham Junction to somewhere on one of the main lines depending upon the eventual destination.

Maybe if the posssible route can be identified then the station might be easier to find?

 

Mike.

I’ve tried that approach but I might have missed something.

The cross London routes are

Kensington Olympia, no intermediate stations until the last few years...and not electrified until later. from Longhedge Jct routes on to all three SR divisions.

Brent to Barnes and also Reading to Clapham Jct via Ascot.

You could include the North London Line to Richmond.

Have I missed anything?

[Fat Controller]

Also the Folkestone Harbour branch.

And the branch to Dover Western Docks..

That scene seems familiar; I suspect it is somewhere in North Kent, but don't know where. The working might be one of the Ramsgate or Dover Western Docks trains that worked to the N-W.

[guzzler17]

I’ve tried that approach but I might have missed something.

The cross London routes are

Kensington Olympia, no intermediate stations until the last few years...and not electrified until later. from Longhedge Jct routes on to all three SR divisions.

Brent to Barnes and also Reading to Clapham Jct via Ascot.

You could include the North London Line to Richmond.

Have I missed anything?

Clapham to Willesden High Level via Kew East Jn.  Have done that twice on specials from the SE Division.

 

Not sure there's a connection from the NLL to the Waterloo platforms at Richmond.  Willesden High to Woking would be South Acton, Brentford, Staines, Virginia Water, Byfleet Jn.  There used to be a passenger service that did this in the 1990s (start Norwich terminate Basingstoke).

[guzzler17]

Probably not, but the landscape around it may have changed immensely, especially buildings by the side of the line.

I suspect that the 25 mph speed restriction might still be there but having looked at Google Maps for every station with a CLASP building, yes I checked all 30 of those stations on the Southern (Bristol Parkway, Gloucester and Oxford don't count), none have such a low speed nearby.

 

Running out of ideas.

[DY444]

And the branch to Dover Western Docks..

That scene seems familiar; I suspect it is somewhere in North Kent, but don't know where. The working might be one of the Ramsgate or Dover Western Docks trains that worked to the N-W.

 

I thought that too but the platform lengths may not be right for North Kent.  You can just about make out a signal at the far end of the platform on the left and the AWS inductor for that signal is some distance short of the platform ramp.  AWS inductors are placed 200 yards (in old money) before the signal so the platform is shorter than that meaning it won't take 10 car trains.  The platforms in the suburban area served from Charing Cross/Cannon St were extended to take 10 cars in the 50s.  That suggests to me it isn't North Kent.  If it's a London area SR suburban station (which of course it may not be) then it's probably not one served from Charing Cross/Cannon St.

 

Edit.  Unless of course what I am thinking looks like an AWS inductor is actually an impedance bond!!

Edited September 6, 2018 by DY444

[wirey33]

I posted this on another forum and someone has suggested Hackney Wick.

 

This works for me with the overbridge being the canal, the odd looking footbridge and the curvature of the track in both directions.

 

Anyone care to confirm?

Edited September 6, 2018 by wirey33

[Claude_Dreyfus]

I would be surprised if it was. The route is on the Kingston Loop, so wouldn't see a service like this...unless it was a tour, but then I would expect to see a good many more heads out of windows!

 

I have been looking, but the curvature of the track does not match anything I have found so far. Agree that the platforms look quite short, and that footbridge looks a bit odd. Is it because it extends to the left behind the trees, or is it because the steps are facing i the opposite direction? Are the platforms staggered?

 

 

EDIT: My apologies, got Hampton Wick confused with Hackney Wick!

Edited September 6, 2018 by Claude_Dreyfus

[Steamport Southport]

I posted this on another forum and someone has suggested Hackney Wick.

 

This works for me with the overbridge being the canal, the odd looking footbridge and the curvature of the track in both directions.

 

Anyone care to confirm?

 

I think you've got it. Have a little play around on Google Maps.

 

https://www.google.co.uk/maps/place/Hackney+Wick/@51.5437054,-0.0249081,126a,35y,270h,45t/data=!3m1!1e3!4m5!3m4!1s0x0:0xc216c906f6aea8bb!8m2!3d51.5435094!4d-0.024

 

 

 

 

Jason

Edited September 6, 2018 by Steamport Southport

[43110andyb]

Hackney Wick 3D from iPad Maps.

Not taking any credit though if it's correct as I trawled the sectional appendix and other sites including maps but didn't pick it out myself.

[acg5324]

Interesting, NLR was flagged up last week on another forum and I couldn’t consolidate the details to Hackney Wick at the time.

 

However this does look a good bet, third rail gone, factory to the left still there but missing the extractors, bridges and station building etc and the shortish platform. The only thing is the curve behind the train looks much more severe in the picture, but this is probably an illusion.

 

Train also makes sense as a Liverpool Street to Cambridge / Kings Lynn service or a Norwich working. class 47 early Mk2s and an RMB......but how did it get to Liverpool St from there, no route. So we could be looking at an excursion or a train diverted into Kings Cross?

 

To précis the view we are looking east towards Stratford.

Edited September 7, 2018 by acg5324

[Nearholmer]

I t looks North Kent Line to me, Maze Hill area, but if it is, I can’t fathom what the train is.

[guzzler17]

The only thing is the curve behind the train looks much more severe in the picture, but this is probably an illusion.

 

According to some mileage and speed limit spreadsheets I've got westbound NLL trains are currently subject to the following:

 

40 mph from mp 3 chain 31 to mp2 chain 68 (includes Hackney Wick station which is at mp2 chain 71)

25 mph thereafter to mp 2 chain 48

 

Looking again at the photo it would appear that the 25 mph restriction started further west in the 80s because today it includes the viaduct that is adjacent to the 5th coach.

Edited September 7, 2018 by guzzler17

[acg5324]

Interesting, NLR was flagged up last week on another forum and I couldn’t consolidate the details to Hackney Wick at the time.

However this does look a good bet, third rail gone, factory to the left still there but missing the extractors, bridges and station building etc and the shortish platform. The only thing is the curve behind the train looks much more severe in the picture, but this is probably an illusion.

Train also makes sense as a Liverpool Street to Cambridge / Kings Lynn service or a Norwich working. class 47 early Mk2s and an RMB......but how did it get to Liverpool St from there, no route. So we could be looking at an excursion or a train diverted into Kings Cross?

To précis the view we are looking east towards Stratford.

Traweling through my London Rail Atlas there is no access to any other London terminal at this point and very limited northbound routes. You can access to WCML at Primrose Hill and you can access the ECML via Kentish Town West and Harringay Jct. Maybe Liverpool st to Cambridge diversion via the ECML? Edited September 7, 2018 by acg5324

[DY444]

Interesting, NLR was flagged up last week on another forum and I couldn’t consolidate the details to Hackney Wick at the time.

 

However this does look a good bet, third rail gone, factory to the left still there but missing the extractors, bridges and station building etc and the shortish platform. The only thing is the curve behind the train looks much more severe in the picture, but this is probably an illusion.

 

Train also makes sense as a Liverpool Street to Cambridge / Kings Lynn service or a Norwich working. class 47 early Mk2s and an RMB......but how did it get to Liverpool St from there, no route. So we could be looking at an excursion or a train diverted into Kings Cross?

 

To précis the view we are looking east towards Stratford.

 

 

Traweling through my London Rail Atlas there is no access to any other London terminal at this point and very limited northbound.

routes. You can access to WCML at Primrose Hill and you can access the ECML via Kentish Town West and Harringay Jct. Maybe Liverpool st to Cambridge diversion via the ECML?

 

Could it be the return Harwich-Manchester/Glasgow/wherever it went in the year in question?  It did go via the NLL later in its life, or, it could be a diversion due to Norwich line electrification work/Ipswich tunnel work, etc etc

Edited September 7, 2018 by DY444