Protocol for engines with double names

[The Black Hat]

Hello all, 

 

Im wondering if there is a correct side for which style of name plates are used on engines when the engine has a double name. For example, 37425 is known as "Sir Robert McAlpine / Concrete Bob". Does it matter which side of the engine gets "Sir Robert," and which side gets "Concrete Bob". 

 

Im just checking as I have a Eastern Region steam engine about to be named Marquis of Londonderry / Fighting Charlie and need to get the side right for which is the Marquis and which is Charlie. 

[Compound2632]

I rather like the eccentric scheme used on Webb's 2-2-2-2 three-cylinder compounds of the "Greater Britain" and "John Hick" classes - all had two-word names, with each half of the name separately on a standard Crewe nameplate on each driving wheel splasher:

 

 

 

That's perhaps not quite what you had in mind as a "double name"!

Edited September 28, 2018 by Compound2632

[dvdlcs]

Hello all, 

 

Im wondering if there is a correct side for which style of name plates are used on engines when the engine has a double name. For example, 37425 is known as "Sir Robert McAlpine / Concrete Bob". Does it matter which side of the engine gets "Sir Robert," and which side gets "Concrete Bob". 

 

Im just checking as I have a Eastern Region steam engine about to be named Marquis of Londonderry / Fighting Charlie and need to get the side right for which is the Marquis and which is Charlie. 

 

Thought 37425 had a nameplate with two lines, rather than two different nameplates. A number of diesels also had Welsh and English names, but again I thought they were on a single nameplate.

 

Not sure about the steam engine though.

[John M Upton]

No, 37425 was definitely different on each side.

[Steamport Southport]

I would think left hand side would take priority since that's the side that is usually used for official photographs.

 

Left hand looking forward from the loco rather than looking at the front. Number One end on diesels.

 

But is it Concrete Bob/Sir Robert McAlpine or Sir Robert McAlpine/Concrete Bob? I always thought it was the latter, but it seems fluid and they have changed sides over the years looking at photographs.

 

 

 

Jason

[Steamport Southport]

Thought 37425 had a nameplate with two lines, rather than two different nameplates. A number of diesels also had Welsh and English names, but again I thought they were on a single nameplate.

 

Not sure about the steam engine though.

 

The Welsh ones did.

 

"Bob" had/has two different ones.

 

https://www.flickr.com/photos/blackwatch55013/7341222138

 

 

 

Jason

[The Black Hat]

Bob has two different name plates. 

 

What im wondering is if its seen that the formal name goes on one side of the engine for the reason. Is the right side seen as more formal, as in, more traditional? Or is it the left side where its seen as more trusting generally, so thats where the main name plate goes and the informal one goes on the other... 

[The Black Hat]

I would think left hand side would take priority since that's the side that is usually used for official photographs.

 

Left hand looking forward from the loco rather than looking at the front. Number One end on diesels.

 

But is it Concrete Bob/Sir Robert McAlpine or Sir Robert McAlpine/Concrete Bob? I always thought it was the latter, but it seems fluid and they have changed sides over the years looking at photographs.

 

 

 

Jason

 

Yeah, that doesn't help. In BR days, Sir Robert was on the right hand side,  of the engine, if the fan was at the front. Then in DRS they have been fixed to the other sides.

I'm thinking left will take preference as that is the main platform side. Oddly enough, if that is the case then that is how the DRS ones are fixed at present.

 

Edited October 1, 2018 by The Black Hat

[Compound2632]

Yeah, that doesn't help. In BR days, Sir Robert was on the right hand side,  of the engine, if the fan was at the front. Then in DRS they have been fixed to the other sides.

I'm thinking left will take preference as that is the main platform side. Oddly enough, if that is the case then that is how the DRS ones are fixed at present.

 

 

Will it not simply be that the nameplates were taken off when the locomotive was repainted and no-one gave a second thought to which way round the nameplates were put back on?

[Gibbo675]

Will it not simply be that the nameplates were taken off when the locomotive was repainted and no-one gave a second thought to which way round the nameplates were put back on?

Hello Mr Compound,

 

I would have thought that the hole centres in the plates would have to match those in the body sides of the locomotive unless of course the body side was re-plated during repair.

 

Just a thought,

 

Gibbo.

[Compound2632]

Hello Mr Compound,

 

I would have thought that the hole centres in the plates would have to match those in the body sides of the locomotive unless of course the body side was re-plated during repair.

 

Just a thought,

 

Gibbo.

 

OK I'm not familiar with the particular loco in question but wouldn't the plates be a standard size, or at least have fixing holes in standard positions?

 

I thought I'd better do a bit of research... ...which leads me to the observation the DRS put the nameplates in quite a different position on the locomotive from where they were in BR days. In fact they're already in a different place in Regional Railways livery compared to Railfreight two-tone grey.

Edited October 1, 2018 by Compound2632

[Gibbo675]

OK I'm not familiar with the particular loco in question but wouldn't the plates be a standard size, or at least have fixing holes in standard positions?

 

I thought I'd better do a bit of research... ...which leads me to the observation the DRS put the nameplates in quite a different position on the locomotive from where they were in BR days. In fact they're already in a different place in Regional Railways livery compared to Railfreight two-tone grey.

Hi Mr Compound,

 

Having drilled name plates for fitting to locomotives both steam and diesel I can tell you that there is no such thing as standard !

 

With diesels, the positioning of internal equipment, wiring conduits, air pipes and body side stiffeners all conspire to dictate the position of not only the plate but where the bolt holes may be placed and that is before you consider what letters are used in the name and how they are spaced.

 

Steam locomotive name plates are generally affixed to a backing plate which may or may not have set positions for attachment to the locomotive splasher or boiler side depending, however the bolt holes between name plate and backing plate are dependant upon lettering unique to each set of plates.

 

Gibbo.

[Colin_McLeod]

Irish Rail 201 class are named after Rivers. There is a nameplate on each side; one in English and one in Irish.

[HullCityB17]

Hi Mr Compound,

 

Having drilled name plates for fitting to locomotives both steam and diesel I can tell you that there is no such thing as standard !

 

With diesels, the positioning of internal equipment, wiring conduits, air pipes and body side stiffeners all conspire to dictate the position of not only the plate but where the bolt holes may be placed and that is before you consider what letters are used in the name and how they are spaced.

 

Steam locomotive name plates are generally affixed to a backing plate which may or may not have set positions for attachment to the locomotive splasher or boiler side depending, however the bolt holes between name plate and backing plate are dependant upon lettering unique to each set of plates.

 

Gibbo.

This was one of the reasons why 56101 only carried the Frank Hornby nameplates on one side. They were fitted I believe the weekend before the joint Model Rail/Hornby/Barrow Hill Live Event but there was an issue trying to fit them because of the closeness of internal equipment, wiring conduits and air pipes so it was only possible to fit one plate and I cannot remember if that was glued on or drilled?

The second plate couldn't be fitted at the same height so the decision at the time was not to until after the event, but this never happened as the locomotive got sold on to Europhoenix and moved to Burton-Upon-Trent for modification a few months later.

[Wild Boar Fell]

In the case of 'Concrete Bob' didn't 37416 also carry these for a time, seem to remember it on the Caledonian Sleeper in EWS days pre 67's?