The State of UK Rail - some personal experiences

[brack]

In Switzerland a few years back my dad missed a connection (very rare in itself - I think it'd left early or something). However a passing freight taking a more direct route gave him a lift in the cab and dropped him off down the line ahead of his intended train, having had a good chat (in English) on the way.

 

Similarly last time I went to the museum at blonay-chamby I asked one of the staff where the path to chamby MOB station started (it's only half a mile and there was a big gap between services on the museum line) and the gentleman insisted that he wouldn't tell us, but if my friend and I would wait 5 minutes he'd get a spare tram out and take us himself!

 

I know that was likely a volunteer on the preserved line, but there are kind helpful folk all over, and a little more investment and thought about our UK rolling stock wouldn't stop those who do go over and above requirements.

[Ken.W]

When two Pacers pass each other you definitely don't notice the pressure wave.

 

When Pacers were first introduced, when one passed a main line train it stopped as the pressure wave broke the door interlock

Edited October 28, 2018 by Ken.W

[Mark Saunders]

When Pacers were first introduced, when one passed a main line train it stopped as the pressure wave broke the door interlock

No they just lost power, door brake interlock was still fifteen years away!

 

Mark Saunders

[The Stationmaster]

Totally silly thing in many respects but yesterday I watched a couple of 387 sets being parted at Reading, amazingly simple to someone who grew up with the old railway.  

 

But now an odd tale - in the space of little over a week I have travelled on all three generations of modern (i.e. 1955 Modernisation Plan and later) units predominantly found on local working in the Reading area over most of the past 60 years.  Strange comparisons  - I like the 387s apart from the hard seat cushion and it was fascinating to hear somebody boarding one at Reading yesterday ask other passengers if he was in 1st Class.  

 

But yesterday I also made 4 trips in Class 165 sets (three different sets) which oddly all still not only carried 1st markings (and on refurbished sets at that) but actually had the modern equivalent of antimacassars at all seats - very comfy.  But then just over a week back I travelled on a Pressed Steel set on the Glos & Warks Railway which reintroduced me not not only to the good old bouncy sprung seats in Standard class but came with a real surprise and bit of interest in 1st Class because there, albeit with later pattern seat coverings, were the deep seat cushions and backs which were designed by Dr Watney, then the WR Chief Medical Officer, to replace the seats which came with the trains when they were delivered because he quickly decided from experience that the seats were likely to cause back and other orthopaedic problems as a result of their design.

 

Makes you wonder what would happen to the seats on the 387s (and various other recent trains) if the railway industry still employed its own Medical Officers who actually had to commute on these trains and knew something about orthopaedics? 

[Zomboid]

Strange comparisons - I like the 387s apart from the hard seat cushion and it was fascinating to hear somebody boarding one at Reading yesterday ask other passengers if he was in 1st Class.

 

Was he? That story means very different things if he was or wasn't...

[The Stationmaster]

Was he? That story means very different things if he was or wasn't...

 

He can't have been as there is no 1st Class accommodation on GWR 387 sets and never has been (although maybe the Heathrow conversions might acquire some?).

[rockershovel]

Travelled from Cheltenham Spa to Plymouth yesterday, by XC. The meandering route (via Swindon and Bristol TM) added around 1hr to the earlier car journey in the opposite direction, and even with a Senior Railcard it cost just under £60.

 

Occupancy was around 60% at times, which rather accentuated the hard, cramped seating; passengers redistributed themselves as the train progressively emptied past Bristol. The 5-car Voyager set was the first one I’ve seen with the red and blue seating actually arranged as it is presumably designed to be laid out, in blocks of contrasting colour, and the carpet was reasonably new, so the whole set lacked the impression of general wear and grubbiness that previous journeys have given.

 

5 min late at CS, 12 min late at Plymouth, various rambling apologies from the train crew about being “caught up behind a stopping train” resulting in the protracted station stops - which nobody seemed to regard as particularly important, apart from the group of students making some attempt to order a takeaway to coincide with their arrival. First World Problems there, lads...

 

So I suppose I’ve now experienced XC service as it’s intended to be. Not tremendously impressed, I’m afraid. I did get about an hour’s work done, reviewing a document but even at one of the rare tables, I couldn’t set my laptop up so I’ve got half an hour remaining to write up my notes. If I’d been travelling at my own expense I think I would have hired a car at less cost and had a quicker journey.

Edited November 1, 2018 by rockershovel

[Zomboid]

Not saying it would change a lot, but they don't usually route them via Swindon, they normally run via Bristol Parkway (presumably closed for electrification work), which would be noticeably quicker.

[caradoc]

As  Zomboid says the rail journey time was extended due to the requadrupling work at Bristol, and of course the road journey time assumes no roadworks, hold-ups or accidents; A quick search for M5 motorway pile-ups reveals a long and tragic list of accidents, including the dreadful one in 2011 in which seven people were killed, and more recently one in September this year in which two people died and the road was closed for 11 hours. Our railways are not perfect, far from it, but your journey was made safely, comfortably and not far off punctually, plus you got some work done, which would be difficult while trying to avoid the boy-racers, drug-drivers and other lunatics on the roads.

[Mike Storey]

As  Zomboid says the rail journey time was extended due to the requadrupling work at Bristol, and of course the road journey time assumes no roadworks, hold-ups or accidents; A quick search for M5 motorway pile-ups reveals a long and tragic list of accidents, including the dreadful one in 2011 in which seven people were killed, and more recently one in September this year in which two people died and the road was closed for 11 hours. Our railways are not perfect, far from it, but your journey was made safely, comfortably and not far off punctually, plus you got some work done, which would be difficult while trying to avoid the boy-racers, drug-drivers and other lunatics on the roads.

 

Totally agree. I spent about three weeks in England about a month ago. Several local train trips in West Yorks and Manchester - no problems at all, apart from one 15 min delay. But when having to drive back to the Tunnel, a trip that should have taken just under 6 hours with stops, we faced so many diversions (M62 closed then M20 closed), road works (speeds from 50 mph to 0 mph over ten/twenty mile sections, several times on the M1) and general congestion everywhere, that it was 11.5 hours before we arrived. And that has not been all that unusual in the many times we have done this over the past 6 years. We can't use the train for these long journeys for various reasons, but I wish we could.

[The Stationmaster]

I would take a lot of convincing that you could reliably estimate the transit time for a road journey you might only plan occasionally.  Everyday travel over a route you know is one thing, and still subject to myriad causes of delay, but planning a longer distance trip over a possibly unfamiliar route leaves you relying on average speeds that you either calculate yourself or take off the 'net from route planning website.  I found exactly that going to and from Toddington a couple of weeks back - a 63 mile journey but with numerous unplanned or unexpected sources of delay.  Perhaps illustrative of what I mean is that it was nearly 15 minutes quicker in one direction compared with the other and would have probably been a further 3-5 minutes quicker had I not been stuck behind slow moving traffic for almost a quarter of the overall distance.

 

At least a train timetable gives me a known journey time and a known arrival time in relation to my chosen departure time.  And generally in my experience the majority of journeys reflect the planned time within a matter of minutes

[rockershovel]

I’ve actually found that the widespread, but constantly changing chaos of roadworks embracing much of the road network within the A1/A14/M1/A34 area makes planning road journeys a complete lottery. Two weeks ago I was diverted all over God’s green world, around the M42/M6 junction area - this week, no problem, despite misleading signs announcing a (nonexistent) closure of the M6 J1 to J2.

 

I would remark that my experiences of XC over the past couple of months have been (until now) an unrelieved litany of delays, overcrowding and poor service. Last night was the first journey I’ve completed on time and with a degree of space.

Edited November 3, 2018 by rockershovel

[Reorte]

I would take a lot of convincing that you could reliably estimate the transit time for a road journey you might only plan occasionally.  Everyday travel over a route you know is one thing, and still subject to myriad causes of delay, but planning a longer distance trip over a possibly unfamiliar route leaves you relying on average speeds that you either calculate yourself or take off the 'net from route planning website.  I found exactly that going to and from Toddington a couple of weeks back - a 63 mile journey but with numerous unplanned or unexpected sources of delay.  Perhaps illustrative of what I mean is that it was nearly 15 minutes quicker in one direction compared with the other and would have probably been a further 3-5 minutes quicker had I not been stuck behind slow moving traffic for almost a quarter of the overall distance.

 

At least a train timetable gives me a known journey time and a known arrival time in relation to my chosen departure time.  And generally in my experience the majority of journeys reflect the planned time within a matter of minutes

It's a good point. People will grumble about delays on the railways on journeys where being 10 or 15 minutes later than they might some other day wouldn't even be noticed by road.

[rockershovel]

It's a good point. People will grumble about delays on the railways on journeys where being 10 or 15 minutes later than they might some other day wouldn't even be noticed by road.

I don’t worry about 10-15 min delays, they are just something that happens. But, of three round trips... first trip, XC were 30 mins late, resulting in a missed connection, resulting in an over-run in excess of 1hr. GWR delivered me to Paddington around 15 min late, with similar results. XC were seriously late on another journey. Two of the XC journeys were heavily over-crowded, with cancelled reservations and passengers standing for long periods of time.

 

During my “Storm Callum” journey, I arrived an extra 90 mins late due entirely to bring unable to ascertain, either from the website or by enquiry on the station, that there was a perfectly good (albeit late-running) connection which I could have caught. My son spent over an hour in a general gridlock around BNS, due to road closures which meant that it was effectively impossible to access the station by road (I’m glad I didn’t arrive, expecting to catch a taxi, that afternoon) and you might reasonably expect warning of that.

 

So while I don’t dispute the specific point about the general punctuality of individual services, the end result can be rather different. It’s like the earlier point about XC having no representation at BNS; it’s their main hub, and while this might be a correct interpretation of their contract, why is this so?

 

No, my point is that from the point of view of a paying passenger with no particular interest in the various elements of the structure, caring only that I pay for a ticket, catch a train and arrive, the obvious conclusion is that the structure as a whole is severely dysfunctional in a manner which the old system didn’t exhibit.

Edited November 3, 2018 by rockershovel

[jjb1970]

Whether to drive or use the train isn't a simple question. For example it doesn't matter how good the train is if you need to get to somewhere not served by rail. Equally, I have spent years commuting in and out of London with LM and now LNWR (soon to be Virgin) and realistically the train has a monopoly if anybody wants to commute between Milton Keynes and London (yes, you could drive but it'd be painful). The travel experience varies on rail, inter city services tend to offer a good level of comfort, quick journeys and you can generally work onboard provided you get a seat. There are toilets for comfort breaks, you can get up to stretch your legs and there will generally either be catering onboard or supermarkets at the station to buy a snack or drink. The big caveat is having a seat, if you book in advance you can reserve a seat but one of the major selling points of rail is the turn up and go flexibility. If I look at the commuter type trains they are designed to move large numbers of people around and do that pretty well but comfort isn't part of the deal and while most of them have toilets it's an interesting experience trying to get to them on a heavily loaded unit with 3+2 seating as the combination of people overspilling into the gangway because of the narrow seats and people standing makes the angways all but unusable.

If I now look at the car, I can't really work in a car, it is less relaxing and journey times much more variable, but on the other hand I will have a seat, the seats are much better (well, at least the ones in my car are), I set the air-con to a setting I want and I can enjoy listening to music or the radio. If I am not going somewhere where traffic is a nightmare (such as just about any of our inner cities) ten it remains a nice way to travel IMO.

Another big variable is the nature of the journey. Travelling solo is much more train friendly I find, as if you start paying for four or more tickets then the train gets rather expensive and it gets harder to sit together and if you have luggage it can be a complete pain as few modern trains seem to recognise the fact that people might travel with luggage. We often take the boy to ice hockey away games, and even at those cities where the train would normally be a good option we drive as we generally make it a weekend and trying to travel by train with an ice hockey kit bag and overnight bags for the other three is a nightmare.

All of which means I spend an awful lot of money on my season ticket each year and do use the train for leisure travel, but in all honesty I use the car more than the train for non-commuting travel.

[Reorte]

I don’t worry about 10-15 min delays, they are just something that happens. But, of three round trips... first trip, XC were 30 mins late, resulting in a missed connection, resulting in an over-run in excess of 1hr. GWR delivered me to Paddington around 15 min late, with similar results. XC were seriously late on another journey. Two of the XC journeys were heavily over-crowded, with cancelled reservations and passengers standing for long periods of time.

Missed connections is an issue and understandably annoying - how much so personally depends upon the details - how much time was left, how regularly it happens etc. The occasional big problem in non-regular circumstances is all part of life (e.g. when I had to walk 8 miles home in the snow earlier this year vs. it happening every week). The occasional I have no issue with - the walk turned into a pleasant pub crawl. The regular when you've already left enough space to not expect things to the nearest second, less so.

 

As for drive vs. train, I find it mostly depends on whether I need the car at the opposite end. In general I'd rather have a relaxed journey over a quick, productive one.

Edited November 4, 2018 by Reorte

[rockershovel]

Missed connections is an issue and understandably annoying - how much so personally depends upon the details - how much time was left, how regularly it happens etc. The occasional big problem in non-regular circumstances is all part of life (e.g. when I had to walk 8 miles home in the snow earlier this year vs. it happening every week). The occasional I have no issue with - the walk turned into a pleasant pub crawl. The regular when you've already left enough space to not expect things to the nearest second, less so.

 

As for drive vs. train, I find it mostly depends on whether I need the car at the opposite end. In general I'd rather have a relaxed journey over a quick, productive one.

Missed connections soon add up. A lot of medium-distance and long-distance services appear to run at intervals of 30 mins, 40 mins or an hour so a missed connection soon adds an hour to the journey.

[caradoc]

Valid points re missed connections. A couple of years ago my Mum travelled from Oxford to Glasgow to visit us, the recommended journey was changing at Birmingham International, a simple same platform connection. However the XC train from Oxford was (only) 10 minutes late but due to this and subsequent loss of path we missed the connection at International. The next service to Glasgow was 2 hours later ! Luckily I was with her, so we caught the Edinburgh service 1 hour later and changed at Carlisle for Glasgow, arriving around 1 hour later than planned, but had she been on her own she would just have waited for the next Glasgow train.

 

The problem of course with holding connections is that it spreads late running across the network, and delays those passengers already on the train being held. To avoid the problem above we now catch an earlier XC train and change at New St, something I would not inflict on my Mum if she was travelling alone.

 

Finally I agree absolutely about information during disruption; IMHO when it all works as planned there is no better way to travel than by train, but when it goes wrong passengers need and deserve accurate updates, and as an ex-rail worker this is something that annoys be, given that we live in an age when communication has never been easier.

[Zomboid]

Finally I agree absolutely about information during disruption; IMHO when it all works as planned there is no better way to travel than by train, but when it goes wrong passengers need and deserve accurate updates, and as an ex-rail worker this is something that annoys be, given that we live in an age when communication has never been easier.

I tend to think that the reason why passengers aren't told things is that nobody knows. In those times control will be earning their money and flying by the seat of their pants to some degree. I imagine decisions are made and implemented very rapidly, so nobody knows when the next train to xyz is until it's actually about to go.

 

I've never been there, I just can't imagine anyone is withholding information.

[Richard E]

When I was commuting it was noticeable that station staff would 'disappear' when there was disruption and passengers would be left to fend for themselves.

 

One thing VTEC were very bad at was laying on replacement bus services when there was major disruption, it was usually a case of trying to find an alternative route that still had trains running and no one was prepared to say which these were. My smartphone used to take a reall caning on data allowance in those circumstances. East Coast and even National Express were much better in that respect.

[Fat Controller]

I tend to think that the reason why passengers aren't told things is that nobody knows. In those times control will be earning their money and flying by the seat of their pants to some degree. I imagine decisions are made and implemented very rapidly, so nobody knows when the next train to xyz is until it's actually about to go.

 

I've never been there, I just can't imagine anyone is withholding information.

Having worked in Control for twenty years, I think you've summed it up very nicely. 

[jjb1970]

A change I have noticed recently on LNWR services out of Euston is that where departures are significantly delayed they are removing a lot of stops and for example running semi-fast services as first stop milton keynes. This is a change and they seem to be announcing it very late, I have seen two instances where the guard announced it at the last minute and people have had to disembark, taking trains from full to very lightly loaded and crush loading the following departure to a silly extent. I am sure there are reasons for it but it is very annoying.

[Bernard Lamb]

I travelled on the 16.34 Euston-Birmingham service yesterday. It is the first time I have made such a journey on a Sunday for a very long time.

The short route from the underground was closed and so I had to brave the hoards in the main concourse. The platform number was on the screen as I arrived at 16.18 and the ramp down to the barriers was packed solid. I think many of them were aware of just how quickly the train would fill. There was also a small number of arriving passengers fighting their way up the ramp against the tide. I just managed to grab one of the few remaining seats. By departure time it was worse than a tin of sardines with many people having large bags of clothes shopping and many others having wheel on cases. A family near me had a young lad who was asking to go to the toilet. The chance of doing that was just about zero. I often get the last off peak train on a weekday and I reckon there were more people using the train yesterday than on most of the occasions when I have travelled during the week. It is good to see that the trains are popular, but the frequency at busy times on a Sunday is just not enough. Especially as weekends tend to see more family groups using the service.

Bernard

[rockershovel]

I don’t believe information is deliberately withheld.

 

However it was quite obvious during my “Storm Callum” adventure that XC appeared to have little, if any, functional communication with their train or platform staff, let alone other networks (here, Virgin, LNWR and GWR). None of the networks involved appeared aware of, or interested in the gridlock and road closures outside BNS (resulting from the Marathon) and didn’t mention it on their websites.

 

This isn’t a unique experience. I had a thoroughly frustrating and depressing experience of travelling on the rats-nest of secondary lines between the ECML and East Coast, a while ago. Again, a straightforward incident (train striking an overbridge) spread into a general chaos of increasingly angry travellers being directed hither and yon, attempts by train and station staff to surcharge them and ending with the police being called to more than one location.

[jjb1970]

I find off peak and weekend experiences can be worse than rush hour when things go wrong as regular travellers tend to have been there and done it and a lot of them clear off to find a pub, or restaurant, go shopping or just take a walk when things collapse and use smart phones to monitor things rather than just accumulating on the concourse and haranguing any available staff and complaining loudly to nobody in particular. Similarly, during rush hour things tend to be well oiled, people know to have tickets ready for barriers, clear the station pretty quickly and know where they're going whereas at off peak times you tend to get people faffing about at barriers etc. Not that I blame people who seldom use trains for not being as familiar with it all.