Upgrading an 00 gauge Lima Class 33 - waste of time?

[Dr Gerbil-Fritters]

Check out what the EM70s fellas have to say about improving Lima pick ups.

[Corbs]

I have to say for someone who's been away from the hobby for a while you certainly have made great progress, the 33 is looking excellent so far!

[Lacathedrale]

Well, with only occasional resort to anglo saxon, it's all wired up and working well. Which is something of a surprise, I was totally expecting it to be up the swanee. I decided to end today's model making endeavours on a high-note.

 

The non-powered bogie was a simple solution - there are strengthening crossmembers in the middle, so I soldered some phosphor bronze wire to a bit of PCB, trimming both as I went, then used araldite to glue it in place. I had to remove the wheels to make sure it set properly, but eventually cured. A small pair of holes was drilled through the bottom of the chassis to allow the wires to poke through into the body cavity.

 

 

The powered bogie was more difficult - there are no strengthening crossmembers and the gear wheels on one side reduce clearance down to a few MM to the bogie sideframe. I decided to remove the cosmetic frame (and lost one of the screws to the Carpet Monster)  and solder a bridge of PCB ontop of the screw molding, with wipers in a question mark shape rubbing the top of the wheels.

 

 

I deliberately haven't trimmed the decoder socket wires yet, and I'm sure masking tape is absolutely the wrong choice but I have no idea what to use to keep the wires organised. Anyway, apply 12V to the wheels and it works! The below picture shows my DCC to DC jumper wires:

 

 

The eagle eyed among you may notice that it's not picking up off the inner axle of the rear bogie, this is because I do not want to tempt fate, but something to consider as an addition if there are running troubles (it was of course the axle I inadvertently tried when I had it all together for the first time and there was about to be the biggest FU>>>>> until I realised)

[73c]

https://www.ebay.co.uk/i/122092546474?chn=ps&var=421124512848

 

Some of this tape is what you want. Sticks like whatsit to a wet blanket. Just right for wires inside locos. Have a shop round for best price

[Mike Storey]

I wish you well, but when the Heljan version first arrived, I looked at the options of upgrading my several Lima 33's and worked out that the costs to bring them up to the same level just about matched a new Heljan. Given that Heljan have now corrected the cab front body shape (roof line profile), on the 33/0 and the 33/1 (which I don't use), the case is even more compelling. All mine are now Heljan.

 

But Lima have their adherents, and I benefitted from that, by flogging all of mine for a decent number of sovs (more than I paid for them.....) . Go figure.

Edited October 29, 2018 by Mike Storey

[Guest teacupteacup]

The costs might add up when upgrading older models but it's much more fun than just opening a box!

[RedgateModels]

 

The powered bogie was more difficult - there are no strengthening crossmembers and the gear wheels on one side reduce clearance down to a few MM to the bogie sideframe. I decided to remove the cosmetic frame (and lost one of the screws to the Carpet Monster)  and solder a bridge of PCB ontop of the screw molding, with wipers in a question mark shape rubbing the top of the wheels.

 

 

I'd look at getting some finer wire, you really don't need that sort of thickness for the current being drawn. Not only will finer wire look better it will place less drag on the bogie movement

Also, that pickup on the powered bogie looks dangerously close to the gear, maybe have the wire pointing forwards touching the front face of the tyre?

 

[Lacathedrale]

I tried looking around for other wire but couldn't find anything in my box - I will see how this goes and if there are problems (I think that may be a trick of the photo - the clearance didn't seem to bad when I last looked) I will remove and replace with thinner wire and front facing wipers. That was my original thought, but I didn't feel like I could get the right angle. Maybe worth a revisit either way.

 

I knocked the dust off my airbrush and undercoated the cab ends in white this morning, so I'm hoping I'll have peace enough from the dog to get into the garden office and lay down some Railmatch yellow.

[Corbs]

Have a go with it through some pointwork and curves - I recently used wire that was too thick on the Class 50 conversion I did, and it wouldn't let the bogies rotate properly and they had a tendency to derail.

[Lacathedrale]

Thanks, will do - I shudder at the thought of holding the pickup wire and the phosphor bronze wire in place vertically though, it was hard enough on a flat surface. I see why people prefer brass for this stuff now - no glue!

 

I don't actually have ANY track to my name yet, I've been waiting for weeks for a delivery from C&L.

[Lacathedrale]

I painted up the yellow ends (railmatch yellow over white undercoat was too lemony, so added some golden yellow then faded back with white and I think it looked much better). Masking was a total pain in the bum with those wire handrails particularly around the door openings so next time I'll definitely fit them afterwards. The first couple of coats of Monastral blue are curing, and then I'll be able to paint the roof tonight and hopefully get a few glamour shots for the thread.

 

My understanding is that 33056 got a light grey roof, but the roof ends over the cabs seem invariably much darker almost like they are different base colours.

[Lacathedrale]

I've got the base colours down, including the really heavy dirt on the cab roofs - there's ALOT to follow up on, but as this is literally the first time I've used the airbrush for anything other than basecoating and my first time masking, I'm quite chuffed:

 

 

 

 

The plan is to touch up the overspray with a brush and then use an oil wash on the various vents and grills to get them to pop, and add some definition around the cab front/etc. - then pastels.

[Alex TM]

Hi,

 

Looks good from here.

 

Regards,

 

Alex.

[meld]

Hi, that looks a grand job.

 

On the next one, if there is a next one, it might be worth cutting some small rectangles of 10 thou plastic and fill the front of the opening on the bodysides where the clips from the chassis go, you can file these down a bit too, it will make a massive difference to the overall finished and upgraded model.

 

HTH

 

Meld.

[forest2807]

Definitely worth the effort. It is starting to look like a model of a locomotive rather than the crude toy that Lima produced.

[Guest teacupteacup]

Goes to show what older models can be made into.  Too many people are quick to rubbish older models in favour of the latest shiny version.  My now slimmed down loco fleet consists ex lima 31 and 2 x 47's, a Bach 24 and only a Bach 08 and Hornby Sentinel represent shiny new things.

 

I do enjoy upgrading the old Lima's though, keeps my modelling skills alive!

[SRman]

OK, so here's the £64000 question: has it been a waste of time upgrading this model?

My own answer would be, "Definitely not!" As it stands. the upgrading process looks to have been very successful, but even if things had gone wrong, or not the way the OP originally intended, look at the techniques and skills he is developing and refining.

Definitely worth doing. Keep up the good work, Lacathedrale.

Edited November 2, 2018 by SRman

[Lacathedrale]

In some ways I'm a little sad, now I come to do the touch-ups I realised I masked it really quite badly around the yellow ends. I think in future I would definitely put the handrails on after painting (and as above, block out the clips for the chassis on the bodyside). That said, it's not terrible:

 

 

I've got to paint out the rubber seals on the window, apply transfers and etched wipers/nameplate and weather it still. Hopefully I can use that to mask some of the rather obvious problems (like how impossible it is to cover dark blue with yellow paint.....)

 

I would say to get my hands dirty with some actual modelling (instead of the incessant build and rebuild of baseboards, module and laying track) has been very enjoyable. Whether I could have got that enjoyment out of a wagon kit instead of a locomotive is a bit a moot point because I specifically realised in the course of this thread that I wanted to learn these skills and test them out (the old Keats proverb: "Truth is only a maxim until you have felt it on your own pulse" rings very true - I've read a dozen articles on detailing locos, but this is the first time I've actually tried it!)

Edited November 2, 2018 by Lacathedrale

[PatB]

Looks OK to me. If I can get the (one day) paint job on the practice Class 50 even half as good I'll be a very happy chap indeed. I am truly crap at masking, primarily due to a lack of patience. Your level of success on a difficult, behandrailed subject gives me great encouragement.

[sb67]

Lacatherdrale that looks good to me, looking forward to seeing it weathered next ;-)

Steve.

[PM47079]

I did something similar with a scrap class 26. “My class 26 rescue” Most rewarding. Your 33 looks like a good project

[Mike Storey]

Goes to show what older models can be made into.  Too many people are quick to rubbish older models in favour of the latest shiny version.  My now slimmed down loco fleet consists ex lima 31 and 2 x 47's, a Bach 24 and only a Bach 08 and Hornby Sentinel represent shiny new things.

 

I do enjoy upgrading the old Lima's though, keeps my modelling skills alive!

 

Interesting comment. It all depends on whether one's primary ambition is to extend one's modelling skills, for the sake of it, or whether it is to achieve the desired end result as efficiently as possible.

 

"Too many people" may well include me - but the OP's topic subject was whether such an extensive amount of work, to bring a Lima model up to the standard of the Heljan equivalent (or better) was worth it. Only the OP can answer that for himself, and he has done a very fine job to date. You clearly derive considerable pleasure from the same.

 

But it does not work for me, because there are so many other aspects of modelling that I need to conquer far more, to get my planned layout up to the standard I want. If a shiny new thing gets me some of the way there, I am happy. I chose to replace my Limas with a model with a motor that didn't stall at low speeds, that had believable window frames, vents and bogie mounts, and could easily be converted to DCC, and eventually, a body shape that passed muster. I know I will have to bash an EMU or two to get the De-icing units I will need, and I am starting on bashing a string of second-hand bogies to get the scrap wagons that no-one makes. Primarily though, I will have to scratchbuild several, complex buildings to set the scene, a skill which I need to develop well beyond my historic ability. Currently, I am concentrating on my garden, live steam layout, which requires far more use of the little grey cells, simply because so few "shiny new things" are available!

 

Each to their own - please don't be so quick to tar those of us that have other priorities, as we don't tar yours, in this broad church of a hobby.

[Guest teacupteacup]

Interesting comment. It all depends on whether one's primary ambition is to extend one's modelling skills, for the sake of it, or whether it is to achieve the desired end result as efficiently as possible.

 

"Too many people" may well include me - but the OP's topic subject was whether such an extensive amount of work, to bring a Lima model up to the standard of the Heljan equivalent (or better) was worth it. Only the OP can answer that for himself, and he has done a very fine job to date. You clearly derive considerable pleasure from the same.

 

But it does not work for me, because there are so many other aspects of modelling that I need to conquer far more, to get my planned layout up to the standard I want. If a shiny new thing gets me some of the way there, I am happy. I chose to replace my Limas with a model with a motor that didn't stall at low speeds, that had believable window frames, vents and bogie mounts, and could easily be converted to DCC, and eventually, a body shape that passed muster. I know I will have to bash an EMU or two to get the De-icing units I will need, and I am starting on bashing a string of second-hand bogies to get the scrap wagons that no-one makes. Primarily though, I will have to scratchbuild several, complex buildings to set the scene, a skill which I need to develop well beyond my historic ability. Currently, I am concentrating on my garden, live steam layout, which requires far more use of the little grey cells, simply because so few "shiny new things" are available!

 

Each to their own - please don't be so quick to tar those of us that have other priorities, as we don't tar yours, in this broad church of a hobby.

Im not tarring anyone, just stating what I see and have experienced.  I've been slated and even laughed at for running older models that I've spent a lot of time and in some cases, money on.  Even laughed at by traders for wanting to buy old stuff (didnt buy from them though!)   I was derided by someone for buying a Lima 31 rather than the latest Hornby one, even though the Lima is more accurate (in my eyes)

 

I've been there with buying the shiny things, and upgraded them to what I wanted to model, but I do like making a silk purse out of what a lot of people would consider to be a pigs ear, my own choice.  As a means to an end, or to free up time for other modelling activities, getting the latest models is perfectly fine, and without a considerable number of people doing so, we wouldnt have so many shiny things on the market.  And also without the new models, the older ones that I, and many, like to work on, are cheaper!  I guess this comes from cutting my teeth detailing Hornby and Lima loco's in the early 90's

 

Some older models require just too much work though!  I spent a while putting a tumblehome into a Lima 37, and detailed the bodyshell, however I got stuck on how to modify the chassis to fit the narrower shell, so I've decided its too much work at the moment and have parked it.  Im not sure I'll return to it so may just sell it on.

 

Like yourself, I have a lot on that I split my time between, modelling and non-modelling, I wish I had more hours in the day!  If I didnt spend so much time tinkering with old loco's and building wagon kits, I'd be able to get on with my layout!

 

Its a broad church as you say, which is why this is a wonderful hobby!

[Corbs]

Let’s not forget that it’s often people who clear out their old stock to make way for new stuff that makes the bashing of cheap models possible

[Lacathedrale]

Does anyone know a way to get Humbrol Maskol off cleanly? If not, I have well and truly ruined the paintjob on this loco