Buying a loco

[sixteen 12by 10s]

Buying a loco.

 

 

Before you do so read this fairy tail

 

 

So you look at the tender list, get a few mates involved with some money, and place an offer. A few weeks later, a letter drops on the doormat informing you that you are now the proud owner of several tons of scrap, and tells you that you have umpteen days to shift it from were it is. Now you’ve got problems.

 

The first one will be, where I am going to take it, with so many preserved railways being steam orientated, and full with half finished restoration projects, it could be a big problem. At the moment, there are several locos in haulage yards around the country, without a home.

 

Congratulations, the Whereare weanyway valley railway has offered you a place for 5 years on the proposal that you will have a working asset by then. Now you have to get transport to the railway. Road transport is the cheapest option but there is a weight limit on the road to the site, and the Ministry for transport will not allow the move. The two sites are rail connected so you approach the powers that be for a rail move.

 

First problem here, the loco has been stored for so long that an Ultrasonic axle test is required, now its time to get the wallet out again.

 

At last the loco is delivered (and so is the transport bill), and is shunted in to its place half a mile from any access other than down a muddy trackside path. The technical officer, Mr Bert Fitter, starts to have a good look round, and starts to find all manor of problems which will take a vast amount of time and money to sort out. Meanwhile the committee has had a meeting and decided to paint the loco in Large Logo and name it “Loch Thrashâ€. Mr Fitter reports that the main generator needs work and also two traction motors will require removing, but the committee thinks these are minor problems and will buy the paint. The practical work will involve a power unit lift, and a bogie removal, the cost of the cranes involved run into thousands.

 

4 years down the line and the working members are down to three, Burt Fitter, Pete Painter, and the one who just hangs around, Shenker Driver. The cost have mounted,

 

Transport £6000, crane hire £5000, generator repair, £13000, and other spare parts £3000.

 

The big day has arrived and all the punters are on the platform, Burt Fitter, who has practically rebuilt the thing single handed, starts up, and tests the brakes, and is in the seat ready to go, then the railway inspector arrives and tells Burt that the railway will not allow him to drive and Shenker Driver will do it instead as he is a full time railway man. A big row erupts between all the parties, so much so that the group are given two months to remove themselves from the railway.

 

 

Still want to buy an engine?, the above is not fiction, just a collection of true events placed together to tell a story.

 

 

If you do go and buy a real loco, then you need lots of practical and financial support and a strong following, if you don’t have these, stick to the models.

 

 

Good luck

 

 

Gary Hinson, Engineer, Class Forty Appeal

[Hugh Flynn]

hi

first of all i take my hat off to you as it would be another part of British railway period lost forever?

as far as driving its the same at work these days everything has to be just so to do anything?

If you want to drive i am sure you could be trained?

Its a fact that kids are not coming into hobby as much and in a few years presevation railways will

struggle to get people to help for nothing?

On the money side it is scary the figures but seeing it start and run it must have been a proud moment that

you will never forget?

Hugh

[sixteen 12by 10s]

Hi Hugh

 

 

First, the comment about Mr Shenker Driver, was to put the point across, that if you bust your back, arms, legs, and marriage, it will not guaranty you a place in the drivers seat.

 

 

This piece was written as a warning to all who think the railway preservation game is as easy as buying a loco. The work is hard, and can go on for years before you see any rewards. What I would say to anyone who is thinking of buying a loco, is look at what we have already got preserved, and if they need anymore advice look at the Preserved diesels website, in the disposals section. http://www.preserved-diesels.co.uk/engines/index_ex.htm

 

More and more groups are being formed to buy every bit of scrap on the tender list, while the establish groups struggle to get support, and the income gets smaller.

 

 

Just one other thing before you all run of to DBS with your check books, is that the railway inspectorate are tightening up regulation regarding the running of trains. They are now questioning groups on who does the safety critical work, yes the paperwork is coming.

 

 

The rewards?, you are standing trackside, as the loco you have spent 10 years rebuilding approaches, the driver sees you, gives a toot followed by full power, the earth shakes…. That’s it that’ll do me, I did that.

 

Gary

[92912]

Hi Gary,

Another problem that can be added to your list is, after you've spent thousands of pounds and countless hours turning the lump of scrap you bought from the tender list into a safe working loco, is the endless list of reasons, normally started by another traction group on your railway, why your loco can't be used because they don't want their monopoly threatened. I have personal experience of this at several railways & to see something that could and should be earning money for the loco owners and more importantly the host railway, sitting in a siding rotting back to the condition it was when you you started is very depressing. This is not only true of diesel group but also happens with steam as well.

 

Personally I now spend at lot more time modeling than volunteering at pres lines, there's less politics

[The Stationmaster]

Yes, buying and restoring is not an easy task.

 

However I must say I found it remarkably easy to sell some Class 37s - recently fully refurbished, one careful owner, yours for only a large pile of cash - and only had to deal with one buyer. The basic deal took two short meetings then the legal lot had a day or five of their fun and games and off the locos went.

 

Definitely the more comfortable side of the procedure; the best of luck with your loco.

[Jenny Emily]

Given the costs and the potential politics, why not buy yourself a nice one mile stretch of disused rail line, relay it and then you can use your loco on it to your hearts content.

 

When I have won the Euro millions, I have the perfect four mile stretch of line picked out for my 12 inches to the foot train set. I can but dream.

[PhilH]

First, the comment about Mr Shenker Driver, was to put the point across, that if you bust your back, arms, legs, and marriage, it will not guaranty you a place in the drivers seat.

 

Unfortunately you can do just as much damage to somebody on a preserved railway as on the 'real' one - sadly I talk from experience here so most railways have a strict policy on who can drive (but don't get me started on 'pay and play' - allegedly that's a different kettle of fish). But surely after spending all that time on the railway in question one would get to know about their policies on who can drive and take steps to get trained to do so?

[Guest jim s-w]

£27K buys a VERY spectacular layout and probably similar amount of time B)

 

Cheers

 

Jim

[sixteen 12by 10s]

First of all

The 37456 group is totally fictitious, i thought this one up after seeing, whether jokingly or not “any one want to club together and buy a class 37, appear in the “Whats on your mind coulombâ€.

The original post is a collection of situations that i know of, that other groups who have purchased a loco have gone through, and i know of many more scenarios.

 

Jim 27K, thats the restoration bill, then theres the purchase of the thing, say 19k,  in the first place, it would buy you a cracking trainset.

 

Politics, i haven't really mentioned that one yet, after 19 years at the diesel preservation game, i try, try , try to keep out of them, but sometimes this dose not happen.

 

Before you look at the tender list,

 

find a home, it helps if you are already members of an established group.

 

 

Think, before i splash out the cash, is there a group i could be part of, already established, preserving one of these

 

If you decided to set up a new preservation group, read this

 

 

 

 

How many of this class of loco are preserved?. If a railway has three working examples already it is unlikely they will want yours.

You have got the money to buy, it, what about restoration costs.

Maintenance, how will your group pay for this, it is all well spending 40K to buy and restore, but are you prepared to keep putting you hand in your pocket every time the thing needs a new widget?.

Technical knowhow, now thats a biggy. You need a couple of Bert Fitters.(preferably of the non moody type)

Good self financing groups have a mix of  practical workers, a sales team and a good level headed committee. They need to have a good relationship with the preserved railways, and above all dedication.

 

Dedication,I left my house at 06.00 on Saturday, and after spending all day keeping 50007 in shape, got home at 22.20 to a welcoming voice from the missus “where the bloody hell have you been till nowâ€. 

 

 

 

I think i have babbled on enough now.

 

http://www.trainweb.org/cfa/

 

Gary

[Pixie]

Preserving another 37? Bah! There's a far more important English Electric based 'charity' at the moment. The 'Pixie to the Sky' fund aims at putting an RMweb member 60,000ft above Cape Town at somepoint between 17th June and the 3rd July. More details here: http://www.thundercity.com/pages/499409045/our-jets/eel.asp

 

The project needs around £11,000 and current balance stands at <counts loose change> £2.78.

 

 

Pix

[pete_mcfarlane]

I think the bottom line is that if these locos were easy and cheap to look after, then DBS/DRS/Freightliner etc wouldn't be replacing them with shiny new class 66s in the first place.

[The Stationmaster]

Preserving another 37? Bah! There's a far more important English Electric based 'charity' at the moment. The 'Pixie to the Sky' fund aims at putting an RMweb member 60,000ft above Cape Town at somepoint between 17th June and the 3rd July. More details here: http://www.thundercity.com/pages/499409045/our-jets/eel.asp

 

The project needs around £11,000 and current balance stands at <counts loose change> £2.78.

 

 

Pix

 

Would an empty crisp packet and a couple of ring pulls help?

[woodenhead]

Personally I now spend at lot more time modeling than volunteering at pres lines, there's less politics

 

Clearly you've not debated P4 vs EM vs OO on an open web forum (not that I would dare raise such a topic).

[woodenhead]

£27K buys a VERY spectacular layout and probably similar amount of time B)

 

Cheers

 

Jim

I hope you're not quoting from experience Jim.

[25901]

Been there, got the t-shirt, had the in-house battles, sold up.

 

It's not easy, early starts on a saturday to get to Booths (all weathers), sore fingers and banged shins on a good day, I think Gary should know what I mean.

 

Please note that buying spares is not like going to ASDA and getting it off a shelf or going to Halfords for a new set of batteries, it involves hard work with minimal tools as you don't know what there till you turn up(in them days), on my first trip to Booths for spares I dumped ( OK Bumped ! )into the 2nd HST prototype.

 

As for what 27k will get you, well in my case a mortgage free house.

 

I'am not wanting to put a downer on diesel pres. as there are very deadicated groups out there who have done heroic work but railways are full and dreamers who want a loco because they have got it at some time from A to B have one hell of a fall to earth coming their way, I know, I've seen it

 

Robin

[Burkitt]

...on my first trip to Booths for spares I dumped into the 2nd HST prototype.

 

I really hope that's a typo.

[25901]

Some loco's do have loo's in them

And good luck to the person restoring that area

[James]

I really hope that's a typo.

 

I believe the 2nd one was scrapped after its ervice with BR Research department.

[coachmann]

When we're young we think we're immortal. In 1972 I just had to buy a double deck bus from my birthplace for posterity. A mechanic did up the engine while I rebuilt some of the lower deck and hurriedly painted in in original 1952 livery. I imagined driving it along its old routes where the good citizens of Stalybridge, Hyde, Mossey and Duckinfield would faint with nostalgia!

 

The "fun" was mostly made up of rent for undercover accomodation, expenses on steel and timber, a week off work painting the thing, and drives all across Lancashire and Yorkshire searching for decent batteries.....more expence. It was also a loosing battle against damp upholstery upstairs.

 

Come the big day, the engine was started with a burning rag then I drove it down the mill yard. The Daimler CVD6 with its pre-selector gearbox sounded lovely, but remembering not to use the the selector pedal as a clutch and knowing the injury it could inflict destroyed much of the fun. If I had not sold it I'd still be lumbered with a 27 foot long by 14 foot high vehicle, road tax, insurance, fuel costs etc which as one gets older becomes an albatros. And this was only a bus!

 

 

['CHARD]

I believe the 2nd one was scrapped after its ervice with BR Research department.

 

Thanks to WNXX we know this:

43001 (41002) withdrawn from RTC stock 12/88 as RDB975813 and scrapped at Booths shortly afterwards, well 1990ish.

 

There's even a picture of the unfortunate/ inexcusable event on the WNXX Class 43 disposals page.

[noiseboy72]

I came very close to buying an out of ticket industrial steam loco a few years ago.

 

I could have just afforded to buy it, but the bill to move it, let alone restore it would have been beyond me.

 

The discussion with my wife about how I had spent the profit on our house sale on 12 tons of loco that would not be going anywhere without a new boiler and goodness knows how many more thousands on other repairs would have been short and to the point !