Heljan announce re-tooled Class 86 in OO

[adb968008]

9 hours ago, 97406 said:

At the moment, I can’t see a visual difference. The 86/1s had the bogies that were destined for the 87, and I think they were briefly numbered in the 86/2 series, so that may be where it came from. Anyhow, my eye is untrained in that area, so will scrutinise more pics after work. I do remember the bogies being converted from the original AL6 bogies at Crewe, where they attached the flexicoil mountings in much the same way as an 86/2.

Ive been looking at my options for an 86/1 and whats the differences between an 86/2 and and 86/4..

 

Only differences Ive seen looking at my Heljan 86/2 and 86/4 is the roof components and the jumper boxes on the front.

 

i’m currently renumbering my first 86/4 but the numbers are proving resistant to T-Cut and to Iso Prop, cocktail stick is having none of it…so its a slower progressing job than usual as its about reducing the number paint in stages rather than a simple to remove. I’m reluctant to get experimental with other chemicals on a £190 loco… anyone else any ideas ?

 

I understand 86/2 recieved the same resilient wheels as the 86/4 and both have the coil springs so not much in it, and ultimately that was intentional by BR. Tbh if making a Heljan 86/2 why not just buy a Heljan 86/2 and change the pantograph ?

 

86/1 is possible if you sacrifice an 87 to do it and dont mind a useless 87 body / chassis and motor, though looking at ebay’s often damaged Heljan 86’s  you’ll find a ready market for the left over 86 bits… of course a new Hornby 87 pantograph will always find a home… so 86/1 yes, but at a price, or a Lima compromise.

Edited February 3, 2022 by adb968008

[97406]

4 hours ago, adb968008 said:

Ive been looking at my options for an 86/1 and whats the differences between an 86/2 and and 86/4..

 

Only differences Ive seen looking at my Heljan 86/2 and 86/4 is the roof components and the jumper boxes on the front.

 

i’m currently renumbering my first 86/4 but the numbers are proving resistant to T-Cut and to Iso Prop, cocktail stick is having none of it…so its a slower progressing job than usual as its about reducing the number paint in stages rather than a simple to remove. I’m reluctant to get experimental with other chemicals on a £190 loco… anyone else any ideas ?

 

I understand 86/2 recieved the same resilient wheels as the 86/4 and both have the coil springs so not much in it, and ultimately that was intentional by BR. Tbh if making a Heljan 86/2 why not just buy a Heljan 86/2 and change the pantograph ?

 

86/1 is possible if you sacrifice an 87 to do it and dont mind a useless 87 body / chassis and motor, though looking at ebay’s often damaged Heljan 86’s  you’ll find a ready market for the left over 86 bits… of course a new Hornby 87 pantograph will always find a home… so 86/1 yes, but at a price, or a Lima compromise.

 

I think the bogies are as near as damn it the same good enough for my eye, looking at pics on the net. There is some bracing on the bogie  under the flexicoils that is visible on a couple of 86/2 pics but most do not show it due to the lighting. We need all the surviving runners together at an open day!

 

There are errors in the cab windows and bodyside grilles  on the earlier 86 that have been rectified on this model, so I prefer this one by a long way. Plus the paint job isn’t quite right on 622.

 

I am definitely thinking of how to get an 86/1 easily without leaving a a set of expensive spare parts. The windscreens and headcode boxes are the main difference, plus I don’t think the 86/1 underframe parts are in the same layout as an 87.  Perhaps a hybrid of the older Hornby and Lima models, and I have a couple of spare Hornby bodies.

 

A class 81 is also something I ponder. There’s one on here that someone converted from a Bachmann 85.

[97406]

It's underway. I'll post the results on my thread when it's done.

[97406]

8 hours ago, adb968008 said:

 

i’m currently renumbering my first 86/4 but the numbers are proving resistant to T-Cut and to Iso Prop, cocktail stick is having none of it…so its a slower progressing job than usual as its about reducing the number paint in stages rather than a simple to remove. I’m reluctant to get experimental with other chemicals on a £190 loco… anyone else any ideas ?

I experimented with the very finest grade wet and dry I had on 404, as I was overspraying it anyway. It was 1000 grit, but rolled into a tube and rubbed carefully over the number removed it. The executive dark grey is a precise match with Railmatch dark grey if you do need to paint, and varnishing over the transfers will hide the abrasive marks. The RFD version with the blue roof’s darker grey upper band looks to be bare plastic, though this is not obviously  apparent, and it still makes for an excellent finish.

[adb968008]

5 hours ago, 97406 said:

A class 81 is also something I ponder. There’s one on here that someone converted from a Bachmann 85.

The Trix class 81 body is a work of art for its age.

You wont find much wrong with it, even the bogies and wheels (with inserts) are very detailed, and find willing buyers on ebay, of course the pantograph too..its only the mechanism and paint that lets it down on todays standards, but you cant hold that against a 50 year old model… I wasted nothing on my Trix 81 upgrade.

 

Ive used a Trix 81 body and put it onto a Bachmann 85 chassis, then used the 85 roof bits on the 81 (even the pantograph drill holes align to the 85, indeed thats one area Heljans 86, Hornbys 86/87 all agree on !). its a bit of filing on the 85 frame fronts, but otherwise an easy job… even the 85’s LEDs align.

Its strange Hornby never made a few tweaks to its 86, tbh its a very accurate job too.. if they’d updated that headcode box, handrails, glazing and roof we ‘d probably not be talking about a Heljan 86.

 

Edited February 4, 2022 by adb968008

[97406]

26 minutes ago, adb968008 said:

The Trix class 81 body is a work of art for its age.
You wont find much wrong with it.

 

Ive used a Trix 81 body and put it onto a Bachmann 85 chassis, then used the 85 roof bits on the 81 (even the pantograph drill holes align to the 85, indeed thats one area Heljans 86, Hornbys 86/87 all agree on !).

its a bit of filing on the 85 frame fronts, but otherwise an easy job.

 

 

I know, I’m a little gutted that I missed the Dapol re run of them a few years back. My 86/3 has a Sommerfeldt pantograph on a Hornby base, and I too was impressed that it just dropped into place. 

[letterspider]

2 hours ago, adb968008 said:

The Trix class 81 body is a work of art for its age.

You wont find much wrong with it, even the bogies and wheels (with inserts) are very detailed, and find willing buyers on ebay, of course the pantograph too..its only the mechanism and paint that lets it down on todays standards, but you cant hold that against a 50 year old model… I wasted nothing on my Trix 81 upgrade.

 

Ive used a Trix 81 body and put it onto a Bachmann 85 chassis, then used the 85 roof bits on the 81 (even the pantograph drill holes align to the 85, indeed thats one area Heljans 86, Hornbys 86/87 all agree on !). its a bit of filing on the 85 frame fronts, but otherwise an easy job… even the 85’s LEDs align.

Its strange Hornby never made a few tweaks to its 86, tbh its a very accurate job too.. if they’d updated that headcode box, handrails, glazing and roof we ‘d probably not be talking about a Heljan 86.

 

 

Were you able to find better glazing for the Trix chassis?

[cairnsroadworks]

4 hours ago, 97406 said:

It's underway. I'll post the results on my thread when it's done.

Oooooo exciting!!!!

[Matt]

So my five arrived yesterday and credit to Rails they had tested before dispatch and none had any major paint or handrail probs.

 

Couple of observations.

 

1. I tested all 5 on DC first and all 5 seemed to have taillights come on with the headlights in both directions (I.e. red tail lights on at same time as headlights on both ends) which was odd. They seemed to fade as voltage increased. Not sure if anyone else has experienced? I wonder if my Hornby H&M controller may have caused with its PWM but never seen this before. Note all 5 are fine now they’re chipped with independent control of tail lights so not an issue for me - just odd 

 

2. the pantographs are the only major letdown IMHO. The springs are too fierce, the head doesn’t angle correctly to meet the wires and also flops all over the place. Worse on one

of mine the knuckle is loose which causes the pantograph to flop to one side.  The alternative pantograph on the intercity one (B-W) is little better with a stiff head and no obvious support spring to hold against the wires. I don’t think all 5 are defective (1 is) - rather a weak point on this otherwise nice model. I’ve seen others commenting on modding these to make work so will look into this, or replace with Somerfeld.

 

3. the buffers whilst nice really exemplify the question of why are we paying extra for spring buffers? They are too sprung to have any purpose so feels like unnecessary adding to cost

 

4. several of Mine had poorly fitted head code boxes but they will sit better with a firm push if anyone has same issue - just need to be brave and strong!

 

I do like them overall though - they look like an 86 and run smoothly. I’m just getting fussier as prices rise and I really do think that items like sprung buffers are unnecessarily adding to the cost.

 

[andyman7]

I picked mine up today - firstly, in answer to the post above, I noticed that if the voltage (DC, using a Gaugemaster Combi) was very slowly turned up a momentary flicker of red occurred as the white lights came on. I suspect that the current profile pushed out by an H&M exacerbates this, it will be caused by stray signals in the current profile confusing the electronics. No doubt those better versed in the technicalities can explain better.

 

Secondly I did have a detached front handrail. OK we can have the usual moan about this shouldn't be happening on a £180+ model etc but I took a more pragmatic view - it had very neatly become detached having not been heavily glued in - the peg was intact at one end, the other was a clean break. I wouldn't ever go overboard trying to repair something but in this case it looked like it could be remedied without any sign of repair and indeed using a magnifying lamp, some cyanoacrylate (superglue) and a steady hand with just the minutest application it was reattached invisibly. 

 

 

[47606odin]

1 hour ago, andyman7 said:

I picked mine up today - firstly, in answer to the post above, I noticed that if the voltage (DC, using a Gaugemaster Combi) was very slowly turned up a momentary flicker of red occurred as the white lights came on. I suspect that the current profile pushed out by an H&M exacerbates this, it will be caused by stray signals in the current profile confusing the electronics. No doubt those better versed in the technicalities can explain better.

 

Secondly I did have a detached front handrail. OK we can have the usual moan about this shouldn't be happening on a £180+ model etc but I took a more pragmatic view - it had very neatly become detached having not been heavily glued in - the peg was intact at one end, the other was a clean break. I wouldn't ever go overboard trying to repair something but in this case it looked like it could be remedied without any sign of repair and indeed using a magnifying lamp, some cyanoacrylate (superglue) and a steady hand with just the minutest application it was reattached invisibly. 

 

 

should have touched in the top of the headcode panel before refitting the handrail 

[Matt]

7 hours ago, 47606odin said:

should have touched in the top of the headcode panel before refitting the handrail 

Is hard to tell in photo but this could be like a couple of mine where the panel needed a firm Push to sit properly?

 

To add to my earlier post, they are lovely near silent runners straight from box - had two purring around yesterday for running in and I would say they are up there with best runners I have. They also have a nice turn of speed at top end if wanted.  Not quite in league of early Hornby 86s which went so fast they turned over on corners…

[Jenny Emily]

I really like this model. The switchable tail lights are long overdue on models, and the cab detail is really good, only lacking cab lighting to show it off. Though Heljan i form me that this would have necessitated a chassis redesign which they didn’t want to do as the current chassis ran so well. 
 

i love Intercity livery. I hope that the class 83 gets modelled at some point so I can get an Intercity liveried one of them. 
 

A video review I filmed: 

 

 

[andyman7]

12 hours ago, 47606odin said:

should have touched in the top of the headcode panel before refitting the handrail 

The photo is harsh - in real life this is so faint as to be unnoticeable in normal viewing and there was a lot of paint flaking of the yellow over black on the real thing - so I just went for reattachment

[ThaneofFife]

Mines being run in this afternoon on my test circle of set track...no layout yet. 

As with my other new locos it gets 15 mins both ways then I turn the loco around and 15 mins both ways again.

So far smooth and quiet.  The lights look very good too....very period not too bright and they have a good warm glow not bright white.

Pity no cab or corridor lighting but it should be easy to wire some in (and fit a driver too) and the 21 pin dcc will allow control.....

The one sticking sprung buffer is now free and afyer having dropped some peco lube in from both sides......

[ThaneofFife]

Ps my handrails are all nice and straight.

[andyman7]

On 05/02/2022 at 22:43, andyman7 said:

I picked mine up today - firstly, in answer to the post above, I noticed that if the voltage (DC, using a Gaugemaster Combi) was very slowly turned up a momentary flicker of red occurred as the white lights came on. I suspect that the current profile pushed out by an H&M exacerbates this, it will be caused by stray signals in the current profile confusing the electronics. No doubt those better versed in the technicalities can explain better.

 

Secondly I did have a detached front handrail. OK we can have the usual moan about this shouldn't be happening on a £180+ model etc but I took a more pragmatic view - it had very neatly become detached having not been heavily glued in - the peg was intact at one end, the other was a clean break. I wouldn't ever go overboard trying to repair something but in this case it looked like it could be remedied without any sign of repair and indeed using a magnifying lamp, some cyanoacrylate (superglue) and a steady hand with just the minutest application it was reattached invisibly. 

 

 

It's apparent that the loss of front handrails is caused by the action of the little black packing blocks on the plastic inner. They press quite hard on the front centre of the handrail and the compression puts strain on the attachment point at each end. For ordinary storage I've just removed the packing blocks to avoid having to reattach bits every time I get the model out.

[ThaneofFife]

Seen a few of these on ebay £186 with free postage.......thought ebay take about 15% off your listed price so not sure how they can sell for that price if theyre only getting about £159 for each one........buyer beware!

[andyman7]

9 minutes ago, ThaneofFife said:

Seen a few of these on ebay £186 with free postage.......thought ebay take about 15% off your listed price so not sure how they can sell for that price if theyre only getting about £159 for each one........buyer beware!

In reality, use of promotions and incentives as an ebay seller can dramatically reduce the commission rate on ebay. You can bet that Rails for example will be paying nowhere near that. Indeed looking at my own seller metrics for my modest sale of surplus items I see my actual commission rate in January was 4.7%. (Which incidentally is why despite people's grumbles, absolutely no other channel comes close in terms of allowing me to retain the maximum sale proceeds of selling on surplus items).

Edited February 8, 2022 by andyman7

[andyman7]

On 04/02/2022 at 09:46, 97406 said:

I know, I’m a little gutted that I missed the Dapol re run of them a few years back. My 86/3 has a Sommerfeldt pantograph on a Hornby base, and I too was impressed that it just dropped into place. 

Dapol didn't rerun the bodies but they did acquire the remaining unused bodyshells from Liliput UK, those were the ones sold off at £4 a pop (and now fetching 10 time that...)

[97406]

6 hours ago, andyman7 said:

Dapol didn't rerun the bodies but they did acquire the remaining unused bodyshells from Liliput UK, those were the ones sold off at £4 a pop (and now fetching 10 time that...)

 

I see. That’s a shame, I was hoping they had the moulds.

Edited February 9, 2022 by 97406

[97406]

Well the new model makes for a bonny 86/2: https://www.rmweb.co.uk/community/index.php?/topic/164738-nifkins-bridge-tmd/&do=findComment&comment=4737865

 

 

[47606odin]

Well, I almost bought 86404, but changed my mind, cancelled the order, was going to get retro blue 425, but ended up with 622 even though I criticised the livery issues earlier. It’ll go nicely with my 92 I have on order with accurascale, and with my 47375

[adb968008]

On 09/02/2022 at 04:42, 97406 said:

 

I see. That’s a shame, I was hoping they had the moulds.

Aiui they had the body tooling, but not the chassis, and was lost in the fire.

Whatever the outcome, I doubt that class 81 tooling will ever come back and given its proximity to the class 85, I doubt anyone else will do it either… but it amazes me there is enough demand for an 80.. before an 82/83/89.

Edited February 10, 2022 by adb968008

[97406]

54 minutes ago, adb968008 said:

Aiui they had the body tooling, but not the chassis, and was lost in the fire.

Whatever the outcome, I doubt that class 81 tooling will ever come back and given its proximity to the class 85, I doubt anyone else will do it either… but it amazes me there is enough demand for an 80.. before an 82/83/89.

 

No need to despair, here’s the thread, and it’s just the sort of kitbash that I like doing