Wagonmaster Posted October 20, 2020 Share Posted October 20, 2020 I think what was meant by 'older' pantograph was that for photographic purposes, Heljan used a Stone Faiveley pantograph off their first and older model of an AL6/Class 86. The newly retooled version we are discussing here will have a newly tooled version of the Stone-Faiveley pantograph. 1 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
letterspider Posted October 20, 2020 Share Posted October 20, 2020 So no one had actually seen it yet and how fine it is? And currently the concern is the height of the pantograph even if it is very finely made? Guess we wait until the first batch arrives for reviews.... Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
MGR Hooper! Posted October 21, 2020 Share Posted October 21, 2020 8 hours ago, letterspider said: I'm sorry of I'm being a bit stupid but what does that mean? This is the old pantograph in the photo? Sorry but to me this pantograph looks nothing like the older one i.e. from Heljan's first attempt at the Class 86 a few years ago. The pantograph pictured above looks like the re-tooled on that was and is seen on the updated Class 86/0 and Class 86/4 samples. Ben said the Class 86/4 sample used the pantograph from the AL6. Forgive me if I'm wrong, but doesn't AL6 refer to the Class 86/0 therefore he's talking about the newer pantograph? Besides, judging by these images from Hattons, the pantographs fitted to the Heljan Class 86/0 and Class 86/4 samples look nothing like the pantograph fitted to Heljan's first attempt at the Class 86. Images added below.... To me there's quite a clear difference in pantographs. The differences are quite obvious. 1 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
MGR Hooper! Posted October 21, 2020 Share Posted October 21, 2020 Just incase anyone is still confused.... 1 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Johnson Street IEMD Posted October 21, 2020 Share Posted October 21, 2020 (edited) 1 hour ago, MGR Hooper! said: Just incase anyone is still confused.... #stillconfused Having briefly owned two Heljan 86s and knowing how flighty the pantograph can be. The actual fine design wasnt so much the big issue more so than the scale of it in relation to the loco. The the new one some twenty? years later looks too high off the roof and if its slightly more accurate in design but too high off the roofline, then I think the latter would be the more relevant aspect. This is just my humble opinion and I am more likely to be at the back of the queue than the front for one of the later ones but I hope they just it right when they do as the rest of it looks good. I am guessing it's going to be sound ready, or something similar? Kat@johnsonstreetIEMD Edited October 21, 2020 by DBC90024 Missed something Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
MGR Hooper! Posted October 21, 2020 Share Posted October 21, 2020 For what it's worth here's my take on the two types of Heljan pantographs:- OLDER (2010 version):- PROS: - Finescale (along the lines of a Sommerfeldt one) CONS: - Inaccurate build - Inaccurate pantograph head - Sits too high - Incorrect base NEWER (2020 version):- PROS: - Overall accurate design - Better build (cast metal) - Correct pantograph head CONS: - Not as fine as it's predecessor - Sits too high 36 minutes ago, DBC90024 said: #stillconfused Having briefly owned two Heljan 86s and knowing how flighty the pantograph can be. The actual fine design wasnt so much the big issue more so than the scale of it in relation to the loco. The the new one some twenty? years later looks too high off the roof and if its slightly more accurate in design but too high off the roofline, then I think the latter would be the more relevant aspect. This is just my humble opinion and I am more likely to be at the back of the queue than the front for one of the later ones but I hope they just it right when they do as the rest of it looks good. I am guessing it's going to be sound ready, or something similar? Kat@johnsonstreetIEMD Either way I'd personally prefer the newer one. It's a huge improvement over the older one and I'm glad that Ben from Heljan has taken feedback onboard. What we saw during the CAD stage was terrible and this is much better. 1 1 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Johnson Street IEMD Posted October 21, 2020 Share Posted October 21, 2020 Thank you for that breakdown pet :-) I actually messaged Heljan about them doing a new Heljan 86 about twice years ago I recall, in a roundabout sort of way the model railway industry have a whole load of feedback all of which is free of charge lol, companies pay fortunes for such things in other market sectors. 2 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Wagonmaster Posted October 21, 2020 Share Posted October 21, 2020 Obviously I've gotten a bit confused as well! Thanks to MGR Hooper for the clarification. In my defence, I never did get a first issue Heljan 86. The versions on offer were out of my period (late '60's) and with with the body issues I stuck with my Hornby version, with a HO Sommerfeldt pantograph. Hopefully Heljan will address the height issue and if not, there's always Mike Edge's panto and a bit of surgery! Not that I'm keen on modifying brand new £170 models! 1 1 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
MGR Hooper! Posted October 21, 2020 Share Posted October 21, 2020 Speaking of pantographs, here's our Brecknell-Willis style one 3D printed in brass.... Image from one of our clients who requested for it to be made available in brass. I wonder how Heljan will do the Brecknell-Willis pantograph. Would they do it like Hornby's Class 87, Hornby's Class 91 or Bachmann's Class 90. 5 1 1 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Johnson Street IEMD Posted October 21, 2020 Share Posted October 21, 2020 Nice looking panto there @MGR Hooper! pet.. as a keen follower of all things electric in the UK and in particular of the Class 90, I am always interested to see things like this. The 86 is my second favourite followed by the 92. If Heljan can do as good a job with their panto as Bachmann have with their 90 then I for one will be more than happy. Kat@johnsonstreetIEMD 1 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pete the Elaner Posted October 21, 2020 Share Posted October 21, 2020 38 minutes ago, MGR Hooper! said: I wonder how Heljan will do the Brecknell-Willis pantograph. Would they do it like Hornby's Class 87, Hornby's Class 91 or Bachmann's Class 90. Have they stated they will do a Brecknell-Willis pan? The majority of the class was fitted with Stone-Faiveley pans, so they could simply choose to avoid the few fitted with BW ones. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
MGR Hooper! Posted October 21, 2020 Share Posted October 21, 2020 2 minutes ago, Pete the Elaner said: Have they stated they will do a Brecknell-Willis pan? The majority of the class was fitted with Stone-Faiveley pans, so they could simply choose to avoid the few fitted with BW ones. If I am not mistaken, Ben did say they were. However I am not 100% sure. Need to go back and read through this topic. Either way, from their choice of locos for the Class 86/4 and Class 86/6, at least one of them have Brecknell-Willis pantographs... - 86401 in Caledonian Sleeper livery. There may be more... It'll be odd for them to announce a Class 86 with the wrong pantograph where there's dozens of others that could be correct. Besides quite a few Class 86s had Brecknell-Willis pantographs. 2 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Wagonmaster Posted October 21, 2020 Share Posted October 21, 2020 5 hours ago, MGR Hooper! said: Speaking of pantographs, here's our Brecknell-Willis style one 3D printed in brass.... Image from one of our clients who requested for it to be made available in brass. I wonder how Heljan will do the Brecknell-Willis pantograph. Would they do it like Hornby's Class 87, Hornby's Class 91 or Bachmann's Class 90. Hopefully more like Accurascales Class 92! 4 hours ago, MGR Hooper! said: If I am not mistaken, Ben did say they were. However I am not 100% sure. Need to go back and read through this topic. Either way, from their choice of locos for the Class 86/4 and Class 86/6, at least one of them have Brecknell-Willis pantographs... - 86401 in Caledonian Sleeper livery. There may be more... It'll be odd for them to announce a Class 86 with the wrong pantograph where there's dozens of others that could be correct. Besides quite a few Class 86s had Brecknell-Willis pantographs. Wouldn't be too sure, look at Bachmann's Class 42 Warship. They did 'Zulu', the only Warship that was different to the rest, not to mention the Class 44's. Nice Brecknell-Willis though, think I could do with one of the those for my Class 89! 2 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Johnson Street IEMD Posted October 21, 2020 Share Posted October 21, 2020 5 minutes ago, Wagpnmaster said: Hopefully more like Accurascales Class 92! Wouldn't be too sure, look at Bachmann's Class 42 Warship. They did 'Zulu', the only Warship that was different to the rest, not to mention the Class 44's. Nice Brecknell-Willis though, think I could do with one of the those for my Class 89! That could also work should anyone try and retro fit a Class 88 from a Class 68 I dare say. Hmmm:-) 1 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Wagonmaster Posted October 21, 2020 Share Posted October 21, 2020 Ahh, a Class 88. Now there's a thought! I was rather hoping Dapol might do one as a follow on from their 68. 1 1 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Johnson Street IEMD Posted October 21, 2020 Share Posted October 21, 2020 59 minutes ago, Wagpnmaster said: Ahh, a Class 88. Now there's a thought! I was rather hoping Dapol might do one as a follow on from their 68. I want one .. definitely.. although I'm dedicated to DB .. I could easily see one visiting Johnson Street IEMD. Kat@johnsonstreetIEMD :-) Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
MGR Hooper! Posted October 21, 2020 Share Posted October 21, 2020 If Dapol or any manufacturers don't do the Class 88 in the next two years, I will design a 3D printed conversion kit. 3 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Gold Roy Langridge Posted October 21, 2020 RMweb Gold Share Posted October 21, 2020 4 hours ago, MGR Hooper! said: If Dapol or any manufacturers don't do the Class 88 in the next two years, I will design a 3D printed conversion kit. But you do know that somebody will announce one the week after you finish designing it don't you? Roy 1 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Gold adb968008 Posted October 21, 2020 RMweb Gold Share Posted October 21, 2020 (edited) 4 hours ago, MGR Hooper! said: If Dapol or any manufacturers don't do the Class 88 in the next two years, I will design a 3D printed conversion kit. You may as well start now, as its not been announced and ive not seen anything appear in less than 2 years. As the donor will be a class 68, why not just focus on the parts that are different and let people cut and shut the class 68 body. Edited October 21, 2020 by adb968008 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Wagonmaster Posted October 21, 2020 Share Posted October 21, 2020 29 minutes ago, Roy Langridge said: But you do know that somebody will announce one the week after you finish designing it don't you? Roy In my case, it's more like just after I've either built it or converted it! Vaguely on topic, my Craftsman conversion of the Hornby 86 to an AL6 (no flexicoils etc.) was completed just as Heljan announced their first iteration of an 86! Might be worth designing a 68 to 88 conversion kit to jolly them along! Lol! 1 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
MGR Hooper! Posted October 22, 2020 Share Posted October 22, 2020 6 hours ago, Roy Langridge said: But you do know that somebody will announce one the week after you finish designing it don't you? Roy I believe so yes.... if that's one way to get someone to do it. I'll gladly sacrifice my time to the Class 88 Gods. 1 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
MGR Hooper! Posted October 22, 2020 Share Posted October 22, 2020 5 hours ago, adb968008 said: You may as well start now, as its not been announced and ive not seen anything appear in less than 2 years. As the donor will be a class 68, why not just focus on the parts that are different and let people cut and shut the class 68 body. Always ready to start. Just need some dough to buy a OO gauge Class 68... 1 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
MGR Hooper! Posted October 22, 2020 Share Posted October 22, 2020 5 hours ago, Wagpnmaster said: In my case, it's more like just after I've either built it or converted it! Vaguely on topic, my Craftsman conversion of the Hornby 86 to an AL6 (no flexicoils etc.) was completed just as Heljan announced their first iteration of an 86! Might be worth designing a 68 to 88 conversion kit to jolly them along! Lol! That happened to me with my very first big project as a designer. Almost completed my Class 89 kit and then Accurascale and Rails announced theirs. Can't be upset about it! That's just the way this industry/hobby works... 2 1 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Gold adb968008 Posted October 22, 2020 RMweb Gold Share Posted October 22, 2020 (edited) 4 hours ago, MGR Hooper! said: Always ready to start. Just need some dough to buy a OO gauge Class 68... £10 for a donor body... https://www.dccsupplies.com/item-p-113407/graded-class-68-drs-bodyshell-1st-run-oo-gauge.htm A body side etch to overlay, and a 3D printed roof and nice paint job. Edited October 22, 2020 by adb968008 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Gold Roy Langridge Posted October 22, 2020 RMweb Gold Share Posted October 22, 2020 3 hours ago, adb968008 said: £10 for a donor body... https://www.dccsupplies.com/item-p-113407/graded-class-68-drs-bodyshell-1st-run-oo-gauge.htm A body side etch to overlay, and a 3D printed roof and nice paint job. Don't forget the fuel tanks are different also. Roy 1 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
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