Snowdon Mountain Railway.

[45669]

Evening All,

 

As some of you may be aware, a film crew from the German TV railway programme 'Eisenbahn Romantik' ( http://www.swr.de/eisenbahn-romantik/index.html ) recently visited North Wales to make a film about the narrow gauge railways for a future broadcast. One of the lines visited was the Snowdon Mountain Railway and some of the pictures I took are now on my Fotopic site. If you are interested to see them, click here :

 

http://ronfisher.fotopic.net/c1099919.html

 

As is my usual custom, this is the 'Stop Press!' collection for new pictures. They will be there for the next couple of weeks or so; after that they will be transferred to their permanent homes in a new Snowdon Mountain Railway collection; you will then find them here :

 

 

http://ronfisher2.fotopic.net/c1772611.html

 

Hope that they are of interest,

[PGN]

Very nice!

 

Thought I'd add a few of my own to your thread, taken when I was last in Snowdonia. Hope you don't mind.

[Steve K]

And one of my own from 2005:

 

[Steve K]

This seems as good a thread as any to add a few pictures from a recent visit to Llanberis. I'll upload a couple of samples for now, and bore you with some more a bit later!

 

 

Despite the steamers chuffing away outside the shed, it was a diesel-only day as far as trips to the summit went. And yes, it was rather wet at the bottom of the moutain (and cloudy at the top, but that's for later), and the light was awful, but I hope something might prove of interest nonetheless.

[Steve K]

Some more taken from Llanberis, including details of the trackwork and the Hunslet diesels which were in use on the day:

 

 

I found something pleasingly geometric about the way the rack interlaces with the pointwork...

 

[Steve K]

A few more, this time from the journey itself:

 

 

Sorry about the inevitable reflections!

[AMJ]

No 4 "Snowdon" as seen in PGN's last 2 photos is quite unique as the works plate on the side below the name plate is a Hunslet one with a 5 digit figure. It is the order number and date that the boiler was supplied and fitted to the loco.

 

A small selection of my Snowdon fots http://andrewjohnson...t/c1019892.html

 

Two of the Hunslet diesels were built at Barclay and have works numbers from both works!

[Chameleon]

Why would they run only diesels when they went to the bother or firing up the steam locos? Was there not enough punters due to the crap weather?

[Gwiwer]

It's been a fair few years since I was in Llanberis and operating procedures may have changed but it was for some time the case that steam locomotives would be fired to keep the boilers warm and they could be run in traffic (often only to Halfway as a "doubler") if there was a pressing need. With oil-fired steam this isn't necessarily as laborious as with coal firing.

 

While many enthusiasts would only want to ride steam to the summit most tourists don't seem to care and it may depend upon conditions, anticipated demand and staffing as to what is rostered for service. Personally I have found it frustrating that SMR don't always seem able to tell you when you book whether your train will be steam or diesel worked and the no-staying at the summit (which is to prevent overloading of later "down" trips) can also prove tiresome if you prefer to enjoy the views on a good day.

[Chris116]

Personally I have found it frustrating that SMR don't always seem able to tell you when you book whether your train will be steam or diesel worked and the no-staying at the summit (which is to prevent overloading of later "down" trips) can also prove tiresome if you prefer to enjoy the views on a good day.

The last time I went on the line they sold me a ticket for a train which I got confirmation was going to be steam but then they announced it would be diesel so I asked for my money back which they would not do! Then I found out the following train would be steam and a guy who was asking about the train I was booked on was told it was full but he could get a ticket for the train I now wanted to go on. This was going to return too late for his plans but he bought the ticket and he and I swapped tickets. The lady in the booking office was very unhappy that we had swapped tickets and was starting to tell us that if we used the wrong ticket then we were travelling fraudulantly. Both of us demanded to see a manager who could not have been nicer and said which ticket we travelled on ws up to us. We left the manager to deal with the lady who was still having a go at anyone who would listen as we left!

 

Chris

[S.A.C Martin]

A few of mine - including a photo of the worksplate on Snowdon.

 

 

 

 

 

[rockershovel]

It's been a fair few years since I was in Llanberis and operating procedures may have changed but it was for some time the case that steam locomotives would be fired to keep the boilers warm and they could be run in traffic (often only to Halfway as a "doubler") if there was a pressing need. With oil-fired steam this isn't necessarily as laborious as with coal firing.

 

While many enthusiasts would only want to ride steam to the summit most tourists don't seem to care and it may depend upon conditions, anticipated demand and staffing as to what is rostered for service. Personally I have found it frustrating that SMR don't always seem able to tell you when you book whether your train will be steam or diesel worked and the no-staying at the summit (which is to prevent overloading of later "down" trips) can also prove tiresome if you prefer to enjoy the views on a good day.

 

 

last time I went there I went up by train and walked back down

[PGN]

The lady in the booking office was very unhappy that we had swapped tickets and was starting to tell us that if we used the wrong ticket then we were travelling fraudulantly. Both of us demanded to see a manager who could not have been nicer and said which ticket we travelled on ws up to us. We left the manager to deal with the lady who was still having a go at anyone who would listen as we left!

 

It beggars belief, doesn't it!

[Steve K]

Personally I have found it frustrating that SMR don't always seem able to tell you when you book whether your train will be steam or diesel worked and the no-staying at the summit (which is to prevent overloading of later "down" trips) can also prove tiresome if you prefer to enjoy the views on a good day.

 

While many enthusiasts would only want to ride steam to the summit most tourists don't seem to care...

I'm not sure how practical it would be to plan that weeks, or even months, in advance. SMR is a working railway, not a "preserved" line, after all.

 

And besides, some of us are quite enthusiastic about railways and would actually prefer diesel traction, odd sorts that we are!

 

Last time I went there I went up by train and walked back down.

I think the "no time at the top" rule is incredibly frustrating. In the meagre time allowed, you would struggle to fit in a visit to the summit cairn, a browse around the shop and a drink, never mind taking in the view!

 

Fortunately, in a way, the visibility on our visit was so poor that it was OK that we only had time for a quick drink before the descent.

 

You solution to descend on foot would be a sensible solution, but sadly, not all of our party were as young and fit as they used to be, and walking down was not an option this time.

[PGN]

If you have a party, some of whom are goign to walk down and some of whom cannot, you can always split the party.

 

Those who cannot walk back down take an earlier train up - which gives them more time at the top. Probably just as well, as they will take longer moving around up there.

 

The walkers take a later train up and give the return portion of their tickets to the non-walkers.

 

The walkers can then, of course, spend as much time as they want before starting their descent.

 

Doesn't work, of course, if you have 3 walkers and 17 non-walkers; but it's fine if you are more or less evenly balanced. And the lady at the bottom doesn't even get to see you do it ...

[Kenton]

I think the "no time at the top" rule is incredibly frustrating.

Incredibly daft as well.

 

I went up Mnt Washington earlier this year on the cog railway (having had the pleasure of driving up on a previous visit, finding myself on the other side of the mountain with a few hours to spare)

 

Despite turning up on spec without tickets, and me one of two lame ducks in a party of 8 US 87th keen to run back down, tickets were found for all of us and we proceeded on a pleasantly hair raising climb to the summit. No restrictions on time whatsoever. Two carriages were packed full

 

in fact plenty of time for the clouds to clear

 

and to watch the more intrepid go over the edge and back down the hard way.

 

The temperature change from ground base (already quite high) to the summit is quite breathtaking along with the view on the odd day the sun shines.

 

All the staff were really helpful and very friendly (but then it was the US and they were taking your money in return )

Always something I have failed time and time again to observe in Wales.

 

Much more severe a gradient than the SMR which is a ride in the foothills by comparison. Thoroughly recommended should you be in the area.

[Steve K]

All the staff were really helpful and very friendly (but then it was the US and they were taking your money in return )

Always something I have failed time and time again to observe in Wales.

I'd forgotten, but yes, the customer "service" at Llanberis was a little unhelpful, if not actually rude. I'd booked our tickets some weeks in advance, and on collecting them, simply asked if it were possible to return on a later train, assuming that there were seats free. Rather than helpfully tell me that there were free spaces on the next train, the only reply was that I was quite welcome to buy another set of return tickets at £25 each!

 

It's daft. I daresay that every train up the mountain contains a fair percentage of one-way travellers who are able, and choose, to walk down, so why not allow those empty seats to be used on a first-come, first-served basis by customers on earlier trains who wish to linger longer at the top? It's a short-sighted policy at best, and though I hate to say it, a little greedy, too.

 

But think about it: to use my own visit as an example, if we'd had an extra hour at the summit, we'd have had another round of drinks, maybe a bit of food, bought a bit of overpriced tat from the shop... SMR's silly policy has done them no good: we weren't going to buy extra tickets, and so we didn't have time to spend money at the summit!

[Oldddudders]

My last visit was in 1997, on the weekend of Princess Diana's funeral. On the Saturday we had walked up Ben Nevis and back. On the Sunday Scafell Pike got the treatment. Monday I walked up Snowdon, got a bit wet and cold, rode down.

[Gwiwer]

My visits to the SMR have been few and far between but spread over the past 40 years or so. In every case, and no doubt with different staff, I found their customer service to be less than warmly welcoming and all about extracting the fares from your wallet.

 

I know they have a duty to ensure the later return trains are not overloaded so as not to leave anyone stranded up the mountain. On busy days many trains go up full meaning - in theory - that they would come down likewise but that is not the case; a proportion of passengers will walk down and a very tiny number are making a point-to-point trip and may walk down to another destination altogether.

 

Nonetheless the "No time at the top" rule has stuck rigidly over many years and on the one visit where we had walked up (from Pen-y-Pass) we were told that there were no seats available for "Down only". Despite this we witnessed the next three trains depart for Llanberis less than half full, walked down and were overtaken by a fourth below Clogwyn which was near-empty.

 

It's policies like those and the enduring lack of warmth in their reception (reported by many people) which creates a poor impression that will be hard to eradicate.

[Steve K]

I know they have a duty to ensure the later return trains are not overloaded so as not to leave anyone stranded up the mountain. On busy days many trains go up full meaning - in theory - that they would come down likewise...

The thing is, most people who walk back down are presumably planning to do so, and would therefore take advantage of the (slight) cost saving of a one-way ticket. The SMR would then know exactly how many exmpty seats would be available for anyone who wanted to spend more time (and money) at the top.

 

Yes, of course, there may be the odd impetuous soul who decides that, since it's a nice day, he'll walk down on a whim, but I'll bet these types are in the minority of one-way-trippers. It surely wouldn't, therefore, be beyond the wit of man (possibly assisted by some very basic spreadsheet software) to be able to allocate the majority of empty downward seats on the day of travel to anyone who already had a return for an earlier train.

 

I hadn't meant to post in this thread merely to comment on surly staff, but the more I think on it, they were just about borderline civil to me that day. If someone built a rival railway up the other side of the mountain, I guess the SMR would have to think more about customer service. As it is, there's not much choice for the punter, is there... ?

[Chris116]

If someone built a rival railway up the other side of the mountain, I guess the SMR would have to think more about customer service. As it is, there's not much choice for the punter, is there... ?

I took the choice last time I was in Llanberis, I went on the Lake Railway for the day and steered well clear of the unfriendly mob on the other side of the road.

 

Chris

[Gwiwer]

There is no other transport option up or down the mountain itself. That is what creates the monopoly which SMR seems to believe they operate under. There are other rail trips available of course. LLR is one. On the far side and under the shadow of the SMR terminus the WHR is another. Though it's quite a hike even by car if you find yourself in Llanberis unable to enjoy the SMR experience and facing the prospect of a drive to Carnarfon or Beddglert instead.

[hayfield]

We went to see the railway 2 years ago, never had any problems but you must remember that when the weather is not good enough for the beach then the tourists will flock to it. We went to LLanberis a few times and from lunchtime onwards its always was very busy.

 

The day we travelled on it we arrived about lunchtime and had to wait about an hour. This was in the school holidays, and a non beach day. The problem with brining people back who get off earlier or have walked up is getting enough stock up there at the end of the day.

 

Firstly you would need additional passing places, secondly additional storage space at the top, thirdly additional stock and lastly staff to operate the trains if they are needed.

 

Yes they do have a monopoly, but there is no room for another train. Road access is not an option for several reasons. Perhapps they could operate a booking system for the return journey, but then if the last reain back is full booked then how do those who went up on the last train get back?.

 

There must be an empty train going up last as the staff need to come back, so there may be some form of flexability. Long may it keep busy, if it dosent it will close which will be a greater loss

[rhydddu009]

<Though it's quite a hike even by car if you find yourself in Llanberis unable to enjoy the SMR experience and facing the prospect of a drive to <Caernarfon or Beddgelert instead.

 

Well it's only 15 mins from Llanberis to Waunfawr the back way via Ceunant!

[Steve K]

Yes they do have a monopoly, but there is no room for another train.

I was only being facetious - I'm not really proposing to deface the mountain with a new railway! The current one is very picturesque, but one is quite enough. I was only suggesting a tongue-in-cheek way that the customer experience might change for the better

The problem with bringing people back who get off earlier or have walked up is getting enough stock up there at the end of the day.

 

Firstly you would need additional passing places, secondly additional storage space at the top, thirdly additional stock and lastly staff to operate the trains if they are needed.

I think you're creating more of an issue than is necessary. I'm not proposing having extra trains to carry down anyone who has climbed up but doesn't want to walk down - I was merely saying that it would be nice to have a mechanism whereby seats that were known to be empty on the return journey could be allocated on request to holders of earlier return tickets who wanted to linger at the summit.

 

Yes, of course, you could lay on extra trains, and sell singles (up or down) or return fares to all and sundry, but I can see why SMR wouldn't want to do that.