Train set prices Railway Modeller 1959 November

[kevinlms]

Just came across this interesting ad from the Railway Modeller 1959 November issue. It has a good comparison to the cost of 4 ranges of goods train sets. Note the price variation for these sets which have very similar contents.

 

It's no wonder the Tri-ang range outlived them all, as the prices are much lower.

[RedgateModels]

So a basic starter set is the equivalent of about 65 quid now, Hornby want 80 quid for the Highland Rambler set, but can be got from eBay for £66.45. ......

[Il Grifone]

The comparable Dublo and Tri-ang sets are much the same price (The R1 tank was 36/- and the 3F 33/6d), The Dublo was rather better quality.

 

Trix were dearer, but the 56xx 0-6-2T cost 63/-, more comparable to the Dublo 0-6-2T , which used to cost 59/6d, but had been reduced in price.

 

The Highland Rambler set includes a cheap 'wall-wart' power supply (extra on the above), but against this the locomotive is rather cheap and nasty and the rolling stock is sheer rubbish (and everything is made in China...).

 

When I was living in London, I used to make regular pilgrimages to Southgate. This was about ten years later, (You could afford public transport then, 2 stops on the bus was 4d.)

Edited December 17, 2018 by Il Grifone

[Nearholmer]

Redgate

 

How did you arrive at your equivalence 65s to £65, which is a ratio of 1:20?

 

Using the Railway Modeller cover price as a very rough indicator we have 2s to £4.50, which I make 1:45, which would in turn make the 1959 sets run out at about £146 equivalent, which sounds much nearer the mark to me.

 

Of course, price inflation and affordability aren't the same thing, given the questions of wages and main calls on income, and I have a strong feeling that fewer families could have afforded a 65s train-set in 1959 than can now afford a Highland Rambler at £70 or even a Somerset Belle (Jinty, two wagons, brake-van, oval, digital controller) at £149.

 

Kevin 

[brianusa]

Having left the UK with Pounds, Shillings and Pence and if it were not for travelling back home frequently, I would be shocked to find these prices for something that could be acquired for  a fiver or two in the 'good old days'.  Although things have gone up all over, I still have the visions of Hornby catalogues from the forties and fifties!

 

Brian.

[JohnR]

97/6 - the cost of a set with a controller is £107.60 in 2017 money. Inflation has averaged 5.5% a year. 

 

For that, you get a basic tank engine, 3 wagons, a circle of track and a controller. 

 

The Highland Rambler has a RRP of £79.99

 

For that you get a basic tank engine, 1 wagon, 1 coach, a circle of track and a controller. 

[Il Grifone]

Redgate

 

How did you arrive at your equivalence 65s to £65, which is a ratio of 1:20?

 

Using the Railway Modeller cover price as a very rough indicator we have 2s to £4.50, which I make 1:45, which would in turn make the 1959 sets run out at about £146 equivalent, which sounds much nearer the mark to me.

 

Of course, price inflation and affordability aren't the same thing, given the questions of wages and main calls on income, and I have a strong feeling that fewer families could have afforded a 65s train-set in 1959 than can now afford a Highland Rambler at £70 or even a Somerset Belle (Jinty, two wagons, brake-van, oval, digital controller) at £149.

 

Kevin 

 

I always use the ratio 20:1, but it is probably 25:1 by now. From the internet £100 in 1959 is £2211.17 today. (too precise and I'd estimate upwards!)

 

You can't really compare the prices of the Railway Modeller. The magazine is now full colour and twice as thick. There is much less useful modelling information in my opinion, but that is only my opinion and wouldn't affect the price anyway.

 

A car would have cost around £500 in 1959 (a Mini): today you are looking at around £10000 which gives 20:1. I won't quote a TV set (the price ratio here is nearer (1:1) or houses which have shot up in price. (My father paid £3950 for a new 4 bedroom house in 1959 - Zoopla estimates it at 561,000 today!). I think there are two main factors which caused this. The wife's income being taken into account for a mortgage and the drastic cut in the top rate of income tax. I'll say no more to not stray into the taboo realm of politics.

Edited December 17, 2018 by Il Grifone

[Nearholmer]

Yes, I know the Railway Modeller index is rough and ready, but I still think 1:20 over that period is rather light.

 

Trouble is, as you illustrate, inflation operates very unevenly across different things, housing being the most confusing, because interest rates play a huge part in setting the effective, as opposed to ‘ticket’, price.

 

BTW, a modern Mini costs c£22000, but like the RM it got a lot fatter and fancier!

Edited December 18, 2018 by Nearholmer

[Hroth]

97/6 - the cost of a set with a controller is £107.60 in 2017 money. Inflation has averaged 5.5% a year. 

 

For that, you get a basic tank engine, 3 wagons, a circle of track and a controller. 

 

The Highland Rambler has a RRP of £79.99

 

For that you get a basic tank engine, 1 wagon, 1 coach, a circle of track and a controller. 

 

The advert indicates that the Triang sets were being offered with a controller costing 39/6 extra, while the Hornby Dublo sets with controller were 48/- extra.  I expect that the controllers were appropriately branded, HD was always more expensive!

 

If Triang included a "power controller" in a low end set, it would be the sort you had to supply three 4.5v bell batteries (non-rechargable) for, which would be ok over Christmas* but the next time you wanted to play would be as flat as pancakes. The parents would soon realise that it was a pretty expensive way to run a railway,  and the set would languish on top of a wardrobe rather than investing in a mains power supply which would cost nearly as much as the original set.

 

At least nowadays starter sets include a mains controller so expensive batteries need not be included.  Remember, a train set is for life, not just for Christmas!

 

 

* Thats if the giver realised that batteries would be required....

Edited December 18, 2018 by Hroth

[Dunsignalling]

Having left the UK with Pounds, Shillings and Pence and if it were not for travelling back home frequently, I would be shocked to find these prices for something that could be acquired for  a fiver or two in the 'good old days'.  Although things have gone up all over, I still have the visions of Hornby catalogues from the forties and fifties!

 

Brian.

Best not to think about that unless you also consider how incomes have changed.

 

UK minimum wage, per hour is now slightly more than what I took home per week in my first job after leaving school fifty years ago.

 

John

Edited December 18, 2018 by Dunsignalling

[Il Grifone]

Yes, I know the Railway Modeller index is rough and ready, but I still think 1:20 over that period is rather light.

 

Trouble is, as you illustrate, inflation operates very unevenly across different things, housing being the most confusing, because interest rates play a huge part in setting the effective, as opposed to ‘ticket’, price.

 

BTW, a modern Mini costs c£22000, but like the RM it got a lot fatter and fancier!

 

Mortgage rates used to be lower than inflation. Now they are considerably higher, but house price inflation compensates for this in part. The problem is getting on the ladder in the first place.

 

The modern Mini shares only the name with the original. The modern one is a completely different concept. I had to get in the back of the original on all fours and then struggled to get out again! Only once! I nearly bought a Mini Cooper (OK in the front just!), but my insurance company didn't want to know. Almost any modern car could leave one standing. 0-60 mph in 16 seconds is considered sluggish today, then it was considered a sports car! The 70mph limit was rather pointless when it was started, as most vehicles would only do about eighty flat out. I did get my MK II Consul up to 95 on the clock once (legal at the time!), but she must have been exaggerating somewhat, as I had a Minor Traveller right behind me. The increase in price compares well with the RM.

[luckymucklebackit]

To make comparisons I use the Bank of England website https://www.bankofengland.co.uk/monetary-policy/inflation/inflation-calculator

[Il Grifone]

Best not to think about that unless you also consider how incomes have changed.

 

UK minimum wage, per hour is now slightly more than what I took home per week in my first job after leaving school fifty years ago.

 

John

 

My first Job was on £10 a week (Summer factory work). Rather less than today's minimum wage, but I was too young to be entitled to the full amount.

Edited December 18, 2018 by Il Grifone

[hmrspaul]

I didn't know anyone with H/D - Tri-ang was the toy we enjoyed and could run compatably with others - and had couplings that stayed together! The 2 shilling Airfix wagons were a gift a few years later! I can't even remember H/D being on sale in the stores where Tri-ang was sold. What we did spend a lot on was Dinky toys - tank and transporter 25shillings and 6pence.

 

Paul

[jonny777]

Looking at my tatty ABC from the 1961/2 era, the starting salaries on BR advert (on the back cover) gives £400 p.a. for an 18 year old. 

 

That is around £7 12s 6d a week gross. 

 

Which means an 18 year old would just be able to afford the HD 3-rail goods set and a controller on one week's wages after taxation. 

 

Given that the minimum wage for 18 year olds is about £6 an hour these days, and a working week might be around 38 hours; giving a weekly income of approx £230, I think the current train set prices are reasonable. 

[GoingUnderground]

The advert indicates that the Triang sets were being offered with a controller costing 39/6 extra, while the Hornby Dublo sets with controller were 48/- extra. I expect that the controllers were appropriately branded, HD was always more expensive!

 

If Triang included a "power controller" in a low end set, it would be the sort you had to supply three 4.5v bell batteries (non-rechargable) for, which would be ok over Christmas* but the next time you wanted to play would be as flat as pancakes. The parents would soon realise that it was a pretty expensive way to run a railway, and the set would languish on top of a wardrobe rather than investing in a mains power supply which would cost nearly as much as the original set.

 

At least nowadays starter sets include a mains controller so expensive batteries need not be included. Remember, a train set is for life, not just for Christmas!

 

 

* Thats if the giver realised that batteries would be required....

A Triang power controller was always AC mains powered. What they did iclude in some sets was the RT.40 Battery Connector. They never referred to that as a power controller, only as a battery connector in all the years it was on sale.

 

When comparing prices between 1959 and 2018, you need o adjust for the Purchae Tax in the 1959 price and the VAT in the 2018 price.

[Nearholmer]

Which were surprisingly similar. This came up when discussing the same sort of question with respect to 0 gauge, where the advert quoted PT separately - it worked out to 22% IIRC.

[sagaguy]

I bought a Trix EM1 from the local Meccano dealer for £2.50 in 1959 with my first weeks wages when i started work in that year.

 

                            Ray.

[Steamport Southport]

Looking at my tatty ABC from the 1961/2 era, the starting salaries on BR advert (on the back cover) gives £400 p.a. for an 18 year old. 

 

That is around £7 12s 6d a week gross. 

 

Which means an 18 year old would just be able to afford the HD 3-rail goods set and a controller on one week's wages after taxation. 

 

Given that the minimum wage for 18 year olds is about £6 an hour these days, and a working week might be around 38 hours; giving a weekly income of approx £230, I think the current train set prices are reasonable. 

 

18 year olds on 38 hour weeks?

 

More like under 16 hours or zero hour contracts where you don't even know if you will get called in that week. I'm sorry, but that's the really of the current work market I'm afraid.

 

Someone who is a retail manager and dreams of guaranteed 30 plus hour weeks.

 

 

 

Jason

[PatB]

Comparison of prices across eras is a difficult and, I suspect, inherently imprecise activity. Whilst it's possible to do things with CPI and average incomes, or compare the prices of equivalent things like copies of RM, it's income available for discretionary spending that really counts. At least it is when looking at luxury items like train sets. The calls on the average income are now so different from those 50-60 years ago, both fixed costs and discretionary items, that I doubt if a simple algorithm is possible.

 

What I think is worthwhile, though, is comparison between the various ways of acquiring, say, a loco in any given era. Comparison of the prices of a Triang Jinty, a Dublo R1 and, eg, a K's J72 kit (all similar 0-6-0Ts) will very quickly reveal that kits were never the cheap option that some seem to believe they used to be.

[sagaguy]

To put this in perspective,i started work at New Year,1959 on £2/10/0 a  for a 5 1/2 day week.It wasn`t until mid 1973 that i reached the dizzying heights of £22 for a 5 day week when i changed my job.

 

                            Ray.

[Dunsignalling]

Mortgage rates used to be lower than inflation. Now they are considerably higher, but house price inflation compensates for this in part. The problem is getting on the ladder in the first place.

 

The modern Mini shares only the name with the original. The modern one is a completely different concept. I had to get in the back of the original on all fours and then struggled to get out again! Only once! I nearly bought a Mini Cooper (OK in the front just!), but my insurance company didn't want to know. Almost any modern car could leave one standing. 0-60 mph in 16 seconds is considered sluggish today, then it was considered a sports car! The 70mph limit was rather pointless when it was started, as most vehicles would only do about eighty flat out. I did get my MK II Consul up to 95 on the clock once (legal at the time!), but she must have been exaggerating somewhat, as I had a Minor Traveller right behind me. The increase in price compares well with the RM.

Don't forget also that owner-occupiers used to get tax relief on mortgage interest.

 

Modern Minis are anything but "mini". I parked next to a Countryman the other day and the thing isn't much smaller than my Yeti (which, incidentally, can routinely do 0-60 in little over half the time an original Cooper S could manage on a good day, thanks to having twice the power and traction control.) 

 

The speedos on old Fords had a deserved reputation for being wildly optimistic. My brother and I once compared my side-valve "Pop" with our dad's Hillman.

 

When the Ford was clocking 55 (not far off flat out on the level), the Minx was showing 10mph less! 

 

John

Edited December 19, 2018 by Dunsignalling

[Nearholmer]

OT, but ......

 

I recently replaced my 15yo car, and two that I seriously looked at were Yeti and Mini Countryman, because they are both in the size-range that I wanted. The only thing that put me off the Mini was lack of head-room, which is another thing it shares with its predecessor.

Edited December 19, 2018 by Nearholmer

[GoingUnderground]

There is one other factor that is very relevant, and that is the size of the market for train sets. It would be much larger in 1959, and the items that went in them had much longer production runs, giving what economists call " economies of scale" or the more you make the cheaper it gets. So on a simple measure I'd expect a modern set to be more expensive in 1959 money.

 

There may be another reason why AC power controllers were sold separately. Purchase Tax. Toys were subject to Purchase Tax, electrical equipment like mains controllers wasn't. Or that was the reason I remember being given when I once asked why the AC mains cotrollers never appeared in the same catalogue as the models. Leaving them out was a very strange omission when they were so essential if you played regularly with your 1959 train set like I did. Of course, it may be that the manufacturers might have thought that publicising the cost of the controllers would discourage parents from buying. But "pester power" existed back in the 50s and 60s. The catalogues always made it clear that a source of low voltage DC was needed to run the trains.

[GoingUnderground]

I didn't know anyone with H/D - Tri-ang was the toy we enjoyed and could run compatably with others - and had couplings that stayed together! The 2 shilling Airfix wagons were a gift a few years later! I can't even remember H/D being on sale in the stores where Tri-ang was sold. What we did spend a lot on was Dinky toys - tank and transporter 25shillings and 6pence.

 

Paul

I agree, except that when Corgi toys appeared, with their "steering" sprung suspension, interiors and glazing, they were so much better than Dinky which had none of those features at the time.

 

Triang railways and Corgi toys were two of the three causes for the failure of the Meccano group. The third was Lego which must have hurt sales of Meccano and Bayko.

 

I used to enjoy playing with my Meccano, especially after a friend of my Dad's gave me his pre-WW2 set, more thsn doubling the collection.

Edited December 19, 2018 by GoingUnderground