DCC concepts ADS-8sx alternatives?

[Michaelaface]

Hi was just wondering if anyone knew of any good alternatives to the DCC concepts ADS-8sx, as it's currently out of stock every where and DCC concepts have an issue with their supplier and don't have a date it'll be back in stock, I've tried the ESU switchpilot but that seems to lack power, and also the gaugemaster pm10d but at £16/17 for a single unit isn't really that practical

[newbryford]

5 minutes ago, Michaelaface said:

Hi was just wondering if anyone knew of any good alternatives to the DCC concepts ADS-8sx, as it's currently out of stock every where and DCC concepts have an issue with their supplier and don't have a date it'll be back in stock, I've tried the ESU switchpilot but that seems to lack power, and also the gaugemaster pm10d but at £16/17 for a single unit isn't really that practical

 

I've been told that there should be stock not too long after the effects of CNY settles down.

 

Cheers,

Mick

[WIMorrison]

Have you looked at these?

 

https://www.digikeijs.com/en/dr4018-16-channel-switch-decoder.html

 

very cost effective

[newbryford]

But is it any good with solenoids? Past experience of these multi use decoders LS100/150, ESU switchpilot, Hornby r824something,  is that they don't have enough oomph for a coil unless it is perfectly aligned on a very free moving point that doesn't have a strong over centre switch. 

 

The ADS is a dedicated solenoid decoder and works well. Lessons were learnt from the FX series and incorporated into the SX range.

 

Main reason for them being out of stock is of higher demand than anticipated and then awaiting an earlier production slot.

 

 

 

 

[WIMorrison]

Didn’t cause me issues when I used used them with PL10e, neither did Lenz LS150 when used with pl10e - all I needed was decent power supply. At least that was my experience 

Edited February 13, 2019 by WIMorrison

[Butler Henderson]

Agree that many accessory decoders are poor with solenoids and if they do shift them their is an annoying buzzing noise. One way round is to have the accessory decoder outputs work a relays  which connect a CDU through a diode matrix if necessary to the point motor  akin to a normal analogue installation.

 

Train Tech make accessory decoders with built in CDU -

 

1 way @ £18 http://www.train-tech.com/index.php/points-control/pc1-single-point-control

4 way @ £40  http://www.train-tech.com/index.php/points-control/pc2-quad-point-control

The 4 way one seems to share the CDU rather than have individual CDUs per output as in the DCC Concepts one. I have two and they have no problem working Peco Surface Mount motors and a Hornby Peco type mounted underboard, including throwing two together,

[Michaelaface]

1 hour ago, Pete Darton said:

Digikeijs any day, 8 port decoder DR4018 for only £30. I do recommend powering it from a separate power source. Can be programmed on track bus and looks good. If it’s down to cost then this item is best, 8 ports for points equals £4 per point, Hornby R8247 £40 = £10 per point. A complete alternative for points is DCC Cobalt IP @ £20-£24 per point total (decoder and point motor plus aux switch all in 1 device) can be cheaper in bulk buys. Hornby point motor £10 plus R8247 for 1 point £10 = £20. Gaugemaster do point motors for £6, plus Digikeijs £4 = £10 per point.

I am a big fan of Digikeijs stuff, but wasn't aware that this would be able to drive my solenoids? if this will work it'd be my first choice, it's just I've found the ESU switch pilot will occasionally fail to throw a turnout (I am running off the DCC bus though and do intend on getting a dedicated power supply for them) but in comparison to the ADS-8sx its kinda put me off a little

had planned on getting a DR4018 anyway to control signals etc, so will probably give this a try

 

 

3 hours ago, Butler Henderson said:

Agree that many accessory decoders are poor with solenoids and if they do shift them their is an annoying buzzing noise. One way round is to have the accessory decoder outputs work a relays  which connect a CDU through a diode matrix if necessary to the point motor  akin to a normal analogue installation.

 

Train Tech make accessory decoders with built in CDU -

 

1 way @ £18 http://www.train-tech.com/index.php/points-control/pc1-single-point-control

4 way @ £40  http://www.train-tech.com/index.php/points-control/pc2-quad-point-control

The 4 way one seems to share the CDU rather than have individual CDUs per output as in the DCC Concepts one. I have two and they have no problem working Peco Surface Mount motors and a Hornby Peco type mounted underboard, including throwing two together,

I considered this one too, but it seemed to be getting similar reviews to the ESU switchpilot which put me off slightly

 

 

22 hours ago, newbryford said:

 

I've been told that there should be stock not too long after the effects of CNY settles down.

 

Cheers,

Mick

ahh strange, the email response I got from them the other day said

"Regarding availability of ADS-8sx, the people that manufacture them for us are having a few problems and this may take some time.

 

We don't have an estimate for them yet."

[WIMorrison]

The default settings for the DR4018 Is for it to drive solenoid motors

[Michaelaface]

6 minutes ago, WIMorrison said:

The default settings for the DR4018 Is for it to drive solenoid motors

well I've ordered one from amazon and will find out for myself, would you be able to recommend a suitable power supply for it?

also I noticed in your signature that you use automation, are they reliable in that sense? I'm currently wiring my layout up for automation so I don't want anything failing on me aha

[WIMorrison]

They worked without issue for me to drive the pl10e but I have since changed to using Cobalt IP Digital though I would actually use these motors in preference to the PL10e now https://dcctrainautomation.co.uk/point-motors/4447-mp1-point-switch as they have inbuilt switching and are almost silent in operation.

 

I am about to build (next 2 months) a new hidden, fully automated, storage yard and that will use DR4018s driving MTB MP1 switch motors and I will be using DR5088RC detection as I do elsewhere.

[Butler Henderson]

19 hours ago, Michaelaface said:

I  considered this one too, but it seemed to be getting similar reviews to the ESU switchpilot which put me off slightly

Having both the ESU switchpilot was one that both struggled to through solenoids and they buzzed like hell - the Train Tech one throws them easily and relatively silently bar the usual thud of a solenoid throwing a point - the only  genuine complaint I could make of it is the slight delay needed while the CDU recharges.

[Michaelaface]

potentially daft question here, but will this power supply be suitable for powering these mentioned units? 19V 3A is what I believe is the ideal supply, but there are so many variations I don't want to get something that might cause damage 
https://www.amazon.co.uk/Replacement-Computer-Notebook-Adapter-Charger-x/dp/B072LX2GQS/ref=sr_1_1_sspa?ie=UTF8&qid=1550173810&sr=8-1-spons&keywords=universal%2Bpower%2Bsupply%2B19v&th=1

[Pendennis]

I too have been using DCC concepts ADS-8sx to switch points and am interested to learn about the DR4018.  I use a Lenz set-up but in an on-line video it seems to suggest that the DR4018 has to be programmed using a computer; whilst I use DecoderPro for my locos, I haven’t yet programmed my accessory decoders and was planning to use my handset.  So would I be able to program the DR4018 using my LH100 handset?  I use solenoid point motors.

 

[WIMorrison]

I am not sure what you have been looking at as you do not use a computer to programme a DR4018, all you do is set CV values in the same way that you set CVs on any other item. If you look at the manual http://support.digikeijs.com/display/DS/DR4018 then you will see examples of how to do this using various controllers, simply adapt one for your choice.

 

I should have also said that by default the DR4018 is set up for operating 8 x solenoid motors, so all you need to do is set the base address

Edited February 27, 2019 by WIMorrison

[Pendennis]

Thanks very much; the video was from IronPlanetHobbies [USA] using Digitrax https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tGyoi3Y68e0.  It indicated that one part of the set up could not be done using the Digitrax hand controller so I just wanted to make sure.

 

[WIMorrison]

Ryan knows his stuff and is the NA agent for Digikeijs so if his Digitrax controller wont do something then it wont do something, but I fear that is a limitation of Digitrax.

 

I have been able to programme mine quite easily using the Z21 app on my phone.

 

EDIT - I have just looked at the video and the reason Ryan is using the DR5000 programme on the PC is because the Digitrax will only use addresses up to 9983 and the default 4018 address for POM is 9999 which the LH100 will address

 

You only need an additional power supply of you are running lots of these or your power is close to maxed out because of lots of locos (especially sound :)) and other accessories. 

Edited February 27, 2019 by WIMorrison
added additional information

[Pendennis]

Thank you again for making the situation clear.

[Francis deWeck]

Hi, I have found that the DCC Concepts ADS is the Rolls-Royce product in this arena. I run an NCE Pro-Cab outfit which has a separate bus and separate booster for that bus to which all accessory decoders, Lenz, Digitrax, CML, Train-Tech, and the related signals are connected. The Digitrax have given me the most problems, particularly on installation. I found that Train-Tech kit is most useful for signal installation, but their accessory decoders can be useful. However, all that being said, the DCC Concepts accessory decoder is worth the wait. It would appear from my enquiries that this supply issue does not just apply to DCC kit, as I was looking to buy some spare replacement point motors from Gaugemaster - not in stock. It looks like an ounce of patience on my behalf is required.

 

As a codicil, other operators say why put signals and points on DCC!? To which DCC Concepts would point out that their gear runs on Analog as well.

[Earl Bathurst]

Since the DCC concepts ADS-8sx are unavailable with no time scale as to when they will be back in stock i was thinking of using Digikeijs DR4018. I have 35 points so i will need 5 units. Are they easy to use in multiples? I assume you give each output an address. The other option do i keep the point control old school or make them digital?

[WIMorrison]

Setting the address on DR4018 is easy

 

 

You may need to change the operation depending on what type of motors you have by default it comes set to operate 8 solenoid motors but can be changed to other configurations

 

[Earl Bathurst]

Hi Iain

Thank you. I will be using gaugemaster seep motors.

 

 

[dj_crisp]

I found setting up the DR4018 very straightforward and there are some useful youtube videos from ironplanethobbies. 

 

I'm finding setting up my cobalts a bit tricky to get the right throw and I'm currently not sure what is causing them to hum but I expect you won't have that issue with seep motors.

 

Really easy to change the cv address of the unit to work in multiple.

[Andy SR]

I too have been caught out by the lack of DCC Concepts ASD decoders. I have a bundle of Peco motors, with twin auxiliary switches on them, which will throw with an old Lenz LS100/LS110, but wont throw with an LS150. When I added extra points (Peco), I needed another ASD but couldn't find one anywhere, so went with a CML/Signatrax DAC20. But found it useless working from track power. So I added an extra 16v ac auxiliary supply (1 amp) and the points still wont throw. Then I upped the power to a 5amp 18 volt ac supply (which they say is the maximum), and all I get is just a twitter from the point blade. Very disappointing product which I will not buy again.  The trouble with these things is they do not do what it says on the box or in the instructions, so one is concerned about buying other expensive products which might equally be failures. I have to say from my experience that DCC Concepts stuff has always worked well for me, as it does do what it says it will do, and more, as it will also throw 30 year old H&M point motors (now made by Hattons!). And these facts are what makes websites like RMWeb so thoroughly valuable, as if you are buying something you have never bought before, you can check out the advice of others whom have probably had the similar successes and failures. 

 

So, anyone know how to make a DAC20 work on solonoids?

[Nigelcliffe]

40 minutes ago, Andy SR said:

I too have been caught out by the lack of DCC Concepts ASD decoders. I have a bundle of Peco motors, with twin auxiliary switches on them, which will throw with an old Lenz LS100/LS110, but wont throw with an LS150. When I added extra points (Peco), I needed another ASD but couldn't find one anywhere, so went with a CML/Signatrax DAC20. But found it useless working from track power. So I added an extra 16v ac auxiliary supply (1 amp) and the points still wont throw. Then I upped the power to a 5amp 18 volt ac supply (which they say is the maximum), and all I get is just a twitter from the point blade. Very disappointing product which I will not buy again.  The trouble with these things is they do not do what it says on the box or in the instructions, so one is concerned about buying other expensive products which might equally be failures. I have to say from my experience that DCC Concepts stuff has always worked well for me, as it does do what it says it will do, and more, as it will also throw 30 year old H&M point motors (now made by Hattons!). And these facts are what makes websites like RMWeb so thoroughly valuable, as if you are buying something you have never bought before, you can check out the advice of others whom have probably had the similar successes and failures. 

 

So, anyone know how to make a DAC20 work on solonoids? 

 

To make them work, follow what's in the manual (which I accept is complicated).  If that fails, contact the maker.   I've found the maker to be helpful and technically thorough.  When I've used them, the DAC20 works. 

 

 

 

 

[Andy SR]

Hi and thanks Nigel, Hope you are keeping well. I have followed the manual explicitly and checked all the CVs are correct, truth is there just was not enough power. I have now got  most of the outputs to work, but... I have had to add a separate 24v DC supply to achieve that, and they still did not have the bang to work one of the points, so I had to remove it's auxiliary switches to get it to work. My disappointment, is that Lenz LS110s and DCC Concepts ASDs would switch that point without removing the accessory switches.   Maybe more volts or bigger capacitors needed, but I don't want to do that as I don't know what the rest of the circuitry would take.  Interesting, but the one that wouldn't throw even with 24v was a Peco (Green) low current solenoid, whereas the others were the standard ones. I shall now try changing the point motor!