South Western Railway - Chaos

[90136]

There is no doubt, we were lucky this wasn’t worse. Had the axle gone the other way, I would be 99% certain the leading carriage would have rode up, similar to Potters Bar. Had the full bogie come off, it’s possible the unit could have drifted towards the Up Slow and Platform, the con wouldn’t have stopped it, it’s not anchored to anything, add to that, at the point of derailment, the con was 10ft side. We are all thankful no one was hurt. It will all come out, but the RAIB and us are of the same understanding around the causes.

[Oldddudders]

Thanks for telling us as much ast you feel is wise. The report will make more interesting reading as a result. 

[90136]

5 minutes ago, Oldddudders said:

Thanks for telling us as much ast you feel is wise. The report will make more interesting reading as a result. 

I am all for transparency. Despite it being constantly drummed into us and preached that we must be, we as an organisation rarely follow it! 

[phil-b259]

2 hours ago, Southernman46 said:

More NR instigated chaos this morning (and subsequently all day) with 2L10 apparently DERAILING one bogie after reportedly hitting PW equipment left over from this weekend's 52-hour possession on the Up Fast at Walton on Thames

Things being left behind after a possession being given up are increasing - a few weeks ago a train on the ECML hit some sort of  rubber surfacing piece used by RRVs that had been left foul of the line….

 

I suspect that the banning of lookouts (and the consequent shifting of huge quantities of extra work into possessions) plus general staff shortages means it’s only too easy for things to be forgotten in the rush to make sure everybody is clear for an on-time hand back.

 

[phil-b259]

27 minutes ago, 90136 said:

I am all for transparency. Despite it being constantly drummed into us and preached that we must be, we as an organisation rarely follow it! 

Transparency is all well and good - but when that results in searching questions being asked for NRs Maintenance  strategy or the DfT demands for cuts you rapidly find that transparency’ becomes expendable in cooperate terms….

Edited March 4 by phil-b259

[Oldddudders]

In my first few weeks on the railway in 1966, a colleague made it clear that even if I saw an accident happen, I must tell the press nothing. 

[Steadfast]

1 hour ago, phil-b259 said:

Transparency is all well and good - but when that results in searching questions being asked for NRs Maintenance  strategy or the DfT demands for cuts you rapidly find that transparency’ becomes expendable in cooperate terms….

And don't forget NR's favourite phrase when something goes wrong...

"Lessons will be learned"

 

So superficial, it makes me squirm whenever I hear it.

 

Jo

[Mike_Walker]

15 hours ago, Southernman46 said:

As I've often bored everyone before said in my many many posts in this and other Wessex related threads - NR are riding their luck in Wessex with bankslips, trees and this latest type of thing, etc, etc - they've got lucky YET AGAIN with a high-speed derailment that probably didn't get messy as there was no intervening S&C and the adjacent platform may have "helped" and as MW said above the conductor "check" rail effect - (I understand 100+ insulators destroyed - small price to pay) BUT It is only a matter of time and probability before there is a serious incident in this area...............................

 

However, I hope the result this time won't be like the Western Route with the Route Director washing their hands resigning and someone from the DLR being employed as their replacement to "fix" it with soundbites 🙄

It's not just on the Wessex route but across the entire network.  Here on the Western, senior TOC managers tell me they lie awake at night dreading the prospect of a major incident such as another Hatfield which they are powerless to prevent but is, and I quote: "Long overdue and likely to happen at any moment."

 

Landslips, falling trees, failing and badly maintained signalling, crumbling bridges and multiple broken rails (another yesterday on the GWML) are all the result of Network Rail's failure either due to incompetence and/or a lack of investment due to Treasury cutbacks.

 

When it happens, and it will, don't blame the train operator but NR or more correctly the government.

[APOLLO]

13 hours ago, Oldddudders said:

In my first few weeks on the railway in 1966, a colleague made it clear that even if I saw an accident happen, I must tell the press nothing. 

 

Same at "The Gas Board" - British Gas etc.

 

Whilst attending incidents we were also told to direct any questions etc to a higher manager, who often attended. If not on site his phone number was given to the press - that got him out of bed and on site quick on many occasions !!!!

 

Or tell them to ask Sid !!!

 

Brit15

[Southernman46]

Re-assured by the info in 90136's post that the object wasn't in fact railway or NR related - changes the picture somewhat in terms of cause.

 

Have to say on arrival at Basingstoke - transfer and 25 minute wait to ride the GWR local up to Reading - not unpleasant - unlike Reading station which since the re-build is a draughty unwelcoming hole as yesterdays weather was showing. First ride in a GWR Hitachi thingy - bit worn already but speedy - some alarming crashes and bangs from the track though - overtook the EL train I was aiming for at Ealing Broadway which allowed me to nip down to the EL and catch it at Paddington - EL to Custom House and DLR to Gallions Reach - wasn't late for work at all - so big 👍 for the Western rail network and the EL proved how useful it's interchanges & connectivity is.

Also impressed that the ticket barrier at Paddington was clever enough to recognise my SWR Smartcard ticket too - I suppose that's to ensure GWR can recover the cost of all the ticket acceptance SWR passengers they carried from SWR ?

[Wickham Green too]

2 hours ago, Southernman46 said:

Re-assured by the info in 90136's post that the object wasn't in fact railway or NR related - changes the picture somewhat in terms of cause. ...

... but obviously solid enough to derail a train and unlikely to have blown in on the wind ........ yes, the mind is boggling !

[jamie92208]

From a post elsewhere on this site the object was an unrecovered piece of rail from the possession. 

 

Jamie

Edited March 5 by jamie92208

[Southernman46]

17 minutes ago, jamie92208 said:

From a post elsewhere on this site the object was an u recovered piece of rail from the possession. 

 

Jamie

Ah, my bleary night shift eyes had missed that this AM 👍

[jamie92208]

29 minutes ago, Southernman46 said:

Ah, my bleary night shift eyes had missed that this AM 👍

The person maki g the post did make the point that possession sites are getting longer and longer and thus harder to inspect before handback. 

 

Jamie

 

 

[Southernman46]

4 minutes ago, jamie92208 said:

The person maki g the post did make the point that possession sites are getting longer and longer and thus harder to inspect before handback. 

 

Jamie

 

 

Ah - here I can make a valid comment - Walton-on-Thames used to be my PW area and the weekend possession extent was one of the annual normal "abnormals" if that makes sense - but whatever the possession length - the actual worksites between marker boards should never be so long / vast that the Engineering Supervisor cannot walk through and check ALL his their site before handback - to expect them to do anything less such as relying on COSS reporting is downright dangerous 

[jamie92208]

Have seen mention of a 32 mile possession. 

 

Jamie

[Southernman46]

Waterloo to Byfleet & New Haw - a mere 20 miles 😉 but possession length has nothing to do with the processes required of firstly the COSS's for the Site of Works, then the ES's for the Worksites and finally the PICOP for the Possession in clearing it as safe for traffic.

 

Section T (or it used to be) of the dear old RSSB RuleBook

Edited March 5 by Southernman46

[90136]

10 hours ago, Southernman46 said:

 

Re-assured by the info in 90136's post that the object wasn't in fact railway or NR related - changes the picture somewhat in terms of cause.

 

Not equipment related, no. Nor was it NR staff related. 

[90136]

8 hours ago, jamie92208 said:

From a post elsewhere on this site the object was an unrecovered piece of rail from the possession. 

 

Jamie

The object was indeed a piece of scrap rail. 

[90136]

7 hours ago, jamie92208 said:

The person maki g the post did make the point that possession sites are getting longer and longer and thus harder to inspect before handback. 

 

Jamie

 

 

Poor excuse for those managing worksites to not get out of their vans and do a bit. Possessions maybe longer, worksites are not generally excessive to the point of being unable to walk the site. Add to that, a lot of works are static, no excuse really. 

[90136]

The works being undertaken were the only works going on at the location. The company were also the only ones working there. No time pressures or constraints. How the rail ended up being left is still subject to formal investigation. 
 

There is no excuse, there was plenty of time and the rail was left at the unloading point where the machine exited, so plenty of individuals to have noticed prior to walking off track, locking the gates and driving off, yet somehow failed to. As mentioned by Southernman46, the COSS & CC have potentially failed in their duties here and for what ever reason, failed to ensure a safe railway was handed back to the ES and subsequently the PICOP and Signaller. If this does indeed turnout to be the case, and there is nothing to suggest otherwise currently, footage available and viewed to date doesn’t highlight anything malicious or deliberate by outside parties, I for one hope they never step foot on the infrastructure again. This sheer incompetence and irresponsible behaviour is what caused fatal accidents in years gone by, this had the makings of a Potters Bar type derailment. It’s been said many a time previously, luck runs out, the railway is vast approaching the bottom of the barrel. Next time we won’t be so lucky. 

 
 

On a side note, the fence in the car park took a significant hit from a chunk of rail, enough to break several concrete post significantly, but the chainlink didn’t fail which is good. 

[Northmoor]

I can report that while there were still cancellations this morning, service had returned to near normal this evening; we whizzed past the accident site  on the Down Fast at near line speed where you could see the wheel marks on the Up Fast's sleepers.  I don't know if the line was actually in use today but the site had certainly been cleared.

So some small congratulations to NR for that.

[Southernman46]

I learnt my lesson just down the track from this incident when some of my guys overlooked a PW trolley that they had put out on the DF at Weybridge to carry welding gear however, the job was caped at short-notice due to a problem elsewhere and NOBODY took charge of the trolley - left in the dark waiting .......................... 

Fortunately the driver of the 06:00 Weymouth (?) had his wits about him coming round the curve and through Weybridge station to pull his train to a stand in time - no harm done BUT definitely a C-change in our working practices at Woking - SOMEONE was always designated PICOT and responsible for it from flatbed throughout the job and back to flatbed. NR later implemented the count them all on / count them all off system for trolleys etc .................... 

Still get a bit sweaty thinking how close we came that morning ...................... 😬

Edited March 6 by Southernman46

[Oldddudders]

4 hours ago, Southernman46 said:

Still get a bit sweaty thinking how close we came that morning ...................... 😬

In December 1980, I had just taken over as Operating Asst for the SE Division (note - a much lowlier post than it might sound!). One afternoon a coal train derailed coming off the Nunhead line at Lewisham, which was a bit inconvenient. I attended, but the options for other services were few and the best was being done. Once the wagons had been re-railed, in conjunction with Allan Barter, Divisional Traction Engineer, we arranged for a Crompton to cross the 1957 Bailey Bridge - installed in the wake of the awful St Johns accident - to collect the remaining wagons still stuck Nunhead side. All went well. 

 

The next day, Allan and I were in the corridor at DMO Beckenham, discussing matters arising, when along came Richard B-C, then Asst DCE P Way. When we told him what we had done he said he felt quite faint - the bridge had not at that stage been examined!

[Southernman46]

5 hours ago, Oldddudders said:

In December 1980, I had just taken over as Operating Asst for the SE Division (note - a much lowlier post than it might sound!). One afternoon a coal train derailed coming off the Nunhead line at Lewisham, which was a bit inconvenient. I attended, but the options for other services were few and the best was being done. Once the wagons had been re-railed, in conjunction with Allan Barter, Divisional Traction Engineer, we arranged for a Crompton to cross the 1957 Bailey Bridge - installed in the wake of the awful St Johns accident - to collect the remaining wagons still stuck Nunhead side. All went well. 

 

The next day, Allan and I were in the corridor at DMO Beckenham, discussing matters arising, when along came Richard B-C, then Asst DCE P Way. When we told him what we had done he said he felt quite faint - the bridge had not at that stage been examined!

That bridge "repair" in 1957 was always considered by the SE Bridge Engineers to be "temporary" ..........................