KESR extension enquiry

[Chrisr40]

Bit of local news on the KESR extension

 

 

https://www.kentonline.co.uk/tenterden/news/heritage-railway-plan-halted-201684/

[Oldddudders]

Nimbyism is alive and well and living in E Sussex, it seems. Or is it just compensation they seek? Crossing the A21 was always going to be tough, but the best is being done to reassure authorities, it seems. If this final hurdle is overcome, the K&ESR will be an even greater success. 

[Bucoops]

Interesting that it would involve compulsory purchase orders - I wouldn't have thought a private railway would be permitted such powers?

[MarkC]

As I understand it, the local council is broadly supportive, looking on the proposed level crossing on the A21 as helping with 'traffic calming'

[Oldddudders]

10 minutes ago, MarkC said:

As I understand it, the local council is broadly supportive, looking on the proposed level crossing on the A21 as helping with 'traffic calming'

As I have mentioned in this context before, it is a hot Sunday morning in August that I fear traffic will be backed up right through Hurst Green, maybe even to the lights at Flimwell. Everyone wants to be at Hastings on such days! No doubt the surveys and counts will evaluate the risks of this - or indeed whether it matters. 

Edited March 30, 2019 by Oldddudders

[woodenhead]

12 minutes ago, Oldddudders said:

As I have mentioned in this context before, it is a hot Sunday morning in August that I fear traffic will be backed up right through Hurst Green, maybe even to the lights at Flimwell. Everyone wants to be at Hastings on such days! No doubt the surveys and counts will evaluate the risks of this - or indeed whether it matters. 

It's always a battle at Hastings.

[Oldddudders]

10 minutes ago, woodenhead said:

It's always a battle at Hastings.

Did you mean a Battle? I had a boss who lived there. In fact his address was Battle Gates, Battle. 

[Boris]

5 hours ago, Bucoops said:

Interesting that it would involve compulsory purchase orders - I wouldn't have thought a private railway would be permitted such powers?

ISTR when a number of railway lines were closed there was often something written in the deeds that the property owner would have no choice but to sell if the land was required to be returned to railway use. 

[brianusa]

Not being too familiar with the area (Been to Hastings once though!), this saga has a familiar ring to it; little Davids -v- the great Goliaths.  This is where the county should exercise diplomacy and make decisions which continual fighting by both parties, seem incapable of doing.  Not just in this instance, but every one like it.  IIRC, one of the aggrieved problems was divided property which understandably is a major headache for the owner so if the benefits of the railway to the county and residents are worth it, then come up with an underpass so animals and equipment can reach each side..... Not cheap, but done all the time in this country, even for animals in the wild to pass underneath or even over freeways, etc.

 

Brian.

[SED Freightman]

2 hours ago, brianusa said:

Not being too familiar with the area (Been to Hastings once though!), this saga has a familiar ring to it; little Davids -v- the great Goliaths.  This is where the county should exercise diplomacy and make decisions which continual fighting by both parties, seem incapable of doing.  Not just in this instance, but every one like it.  IIRC, one of the aggrieved problems was divided property which understandably is a major headache for the owner so if the benefits of the railway to the county and residents are worth it, then come up with an underpass so animals and equipment can reach each side..... Not cheap, but done all the time in this country, even for animals in the wild to pass underneath or even over freeways, etc.

 

Brian.

It is not the problem of getting from one side of the re-instated line to the other that is causing the two landowners to object so much as the fact that their properties will be divided and they will loose the land needed for the railway.  The location of the railway in the bottom of the Rother Valley, which is prone to flooding after prolonged periods of wet weather, would rule out constucting underpasses as they would require the installation of pumping systems, hence the railway intend to provide accommodation crossings where necessary.

[adb968008]

I learned something new reading that objections website...

 

Quote

A typical steam locomotive uses 50lb of coal per mile or 45kg each time a train runs one way along the proposed 3.4km extension.

Each kg of coal produces 2.9kg of CO2 when it's burnt so that's 125kg of CO2 released on each pass.

Www.thegreatrobertsbridgetrainrobbery.co.uk

 

Apparently Burning solid coal increases its weight in gaseous form 

 

 

Edited March 31, 2019 by adb968008

[sng7]

9 hours ago, adb968008 said:

I learned something new reading that objections website...

 

Www.thegreatrobertsbridgetrainrobbery.co.uk

 

Apparently Burning solid coal increases its weight in gaseous form 

 

 

 

In fairness to them they even though i do support the KESR extension Carbon Dioxide has a greater mass than carbon on its own as it takes oxygen in from the air. Carbon has an atomic mass of 12 with oxygen having an atmoic mass of 16 so carbon dioxide has a combined atomic mass of 44. So carbon dioxide has a mass around 3.6 times greater than pure carbon so there quoted value of 2.9kg co2 for 1 kg of coal seems resonable as coal is a mix of hydrogen and carbon.

Edited April 1, 2019 by sng7

[MarkC]

You always know that objectors are getting desperate when they resort to pseudo-scientific mumbo-jumbo.

 

Male bovine solid waste baffles brains, eh?

[adb968008]

3 hours ago, sng7 said:

 

In fairness to them they even though i do support the KESR extension Carbon Dioxide has a greater mass than carbon on its own as it takes oxygen in from the air. Carbon has an atomic mass of 12 with oxygen having an atmoic mass of 16 so carbon dioxide has a combined atomic mass of 44. So carbon dioxide has a mass around 3.6 times greater than pure carbon so there quoted value of 2.9kg co2 for 1 kg of coal seems resonable as coal is a mix of hydrogen and carbon.

 

I have no knowledge in this arena at all, so bear with me...

 

but does that mean burning coal is only burning Hydrogen and fusing carbon and oxygen together ?

 

In my simple mind, what goes through the firebox door looks substantially bigger and heavier than what goes out of the chimney?

 

though exceptions apply (scroll to 4m 28 if you want a nice distraction)

 

Edited April 1, 2019 by adb968008

[sng7]

1 hour ago, adb968008 said:

 

I have no knowledge in this arena at all, so bear with me...

 

but does that mean burning coal is only burning Hydrogen and fusing carbon and oxygen together ?

 

In my simple mind, what goes through the firebox door looks substantially bigger and heavier than what goes out of the chimney?

 

 

Yep, burning coal is just burning the hydrogen and the carbon, in both cases the hydrogen and the carbon fuse with the oxygen in the air. Its counterintuitive as the coal has an obvious mass and the carbon dioxide doesn't. However,although we can't see it a cubic metre of carbon dioxide will have a mass of about 2kg. So all that is saying is 1kg of coal will create around 1.5-1.8 cubic metres of carbon dioxide going up the chimney.

[pete_mcfarlane]

Quote

A typical steam locomotive uses 50lb of coal per mile or 45kg each time a train runs one way along the proposed 3.4km extension.

Each kg of coal produces 2.9kg of CO2 when it's burnt so that's 125kg of CO2 released on each pass.

 

Is this for a Terrier running on Welsh steam coal, or a 9F burning some power station grade stuff from Poland?

 

From reading the news article, it seems as though the delay is due to proper grown up issues with the road crossing, which need further investigation and traffic studies, rather than the local Nimbys. No doubt the Nimbys will still claim the win.