Shops with no facility to accept cash or cards

[Dunsignalling]

9 hours ago, brianusa said:

What a good idea.   I always forget mine!

    Brian.

Careful what you wish for. Theft will then rapidly evolve to take the form of removing whichever part of your anatomy contains the chip.....

 

John 

[Ozexpatriate]

Amazon Go.

 

 

They do exist and have done for a while.

 

Clearly it's not for everyone.

 

Amazon also purchased a large (pricey, high-end) grocery store chain called "Whole Foods" (which people called "Whole Paycheque" due to the prices). Amazon is driving the prices down at Whole Foods.

Edited May 6, 2019 by Ozexpatriate

[Ozexpatriate]

Supermarket chains have been data harvesting their customers for years. This is true if they use a loyalty card of course, but I suspect it is also true with any electronic payment - pending local privacy laws of course.

 

The Amazon approach takes the data harvesting to a whole new level. The data mining will be extended to the way customers interact with each and every product.

 

The supermarket industry has been doing this for years relative to product placement on shelves and planned layouts with the milk and eggs at the rear of the store to make sure you have to pass through the whole store doing the milk run.  Suppliers pay more for premium locations in the store  - in particular high volume products like drink distributors,  The difference here is that every interaction goes into the data mining - not just studies funded by consultants.

Edited May 6, 2019 by Ozexpatriate

[njee20]

These threads need a bingo card:

 

- “cash is king”

- “I’m not a Luddite but... (insert statement evidencing poster is a Luddite)”

- “this wouldn’t work in this situation (insert example of different scenario to the one being posed)”

-  “I won’t give my business to companies that mandate how I pay”

- “it’s the future”

 

This is a tiny store, in the centre of London, serving office workers for their lunch and few others. There won’t be trollies of frozen food abandoned in the aisles, nor will auntie Doris struggle with her weekly shop because that’s not what it’s catering for. Put down the pitchforks. 

[tigerburnie]

8 hours ago, J. S. Bach said:

For someone on the western shore of the Atlantic, what is/was the "Truck Act"? TIA

It was a law in the uk that you had to be paid within 7 days of earning your wages in coinage of the realm(cash), the law was repealed as employers wanted to move away from handling cash weekly and move to paying staff directly into a bank, usually monthly, this saved the employer a lot of money.

[Porkscratching]

2 hours ago, Dunsignalling said:

Careful what you wish for. Theft will then rapidly evolve to take the form of removing whichever part of your anatomy contains the chip.....

 

John 

Plus when you offend the powers that be, or you become surplus to requirements..you could simply be "deleted"....

[tigerburnie]

10 minutes ago, njee20 said:

These threads need a bingo card:

 

- “cash is king”

- “I’m not a Luddite but... (insert statement evidencing poster is a Luddite)”

- “this wouldn’t work in this situation (insert example of different scenario to the one being posed)”

-  “I won’t give my business to companies that mandate how I pay”

- “it’s the future”

 

This is a tiny store, in the centre of London, serving office workers for their lunch and few others. There won’t be trollies of frozen food abandoned in the aisles, nor will auntie Doris struggle with her weekly shop because that’s not what it’s catering for. Put down the pitchforks. 

Pitchforks, I am half way building a set of gallows for some public hangings here...………………………………………………….

[Izzy]

20 minutes ago, njee20 said:

 

This is a tiny store, in the centre of London, serving office workers for their lunch and few others. There won’t be trollies of frozen food abandoned in the aisles, nor will auntie Doris struggle with her weekly shop because that’s not what it’s catering for. Put down the pitchforks. 

 

So long as a choice exists these ‘different’ stores are okay, and just that for those that need or want them. But it is indicative of the way things are going. Look at social services etc, now only accessible online I understand. This is where the concern lies.

 

However it doesn’t always work out. My local DIY chain a while back went to self-service only tills with no staff about to help. For the last 6 months they have been cordoned off and no longer used, with normal tills and staff now in evidence as in the past. One could speculate why, but having heard reports of such as central heating boilers & bathroom suites just walking out the door I think that is reason enough. 

 

Izzy

 

 

[62613]

25 minutes ago, tigerburnie said:

It was a law in the uk that you had to be paid within 7 days of earning your wages in coinage of the realm(cash), the law was repealed as employers wanted to move away from handling cash weekly and move to paying staff directly into a bank, usually monthly, this saved the employer a lot of money.

Prior to the truck acts, employers quite often paid their in tokens, only redeemable at a store owned by the same employer; you were forced to buy your often substandard groceries, etc., from your employer, usually at prices that meant you were permanently in debt to them (I owe my soul to the company store). This was called "Truck". The acts were passed in the early 1840s, and basically stated that employees must be paid in cash rather than kind. The other offshoot, in England, was that a group of workers in Rochdale clubbed together to buy goods wholesale and distributed among themselves at reduced prices. a proportion of the profits at year end were redistributed to all the members as a dividend. What could possibly go wrong with that idea in modern Get Rich Quick Britain?

 

[62613]

4 minutes ago, Izzy said:

 

So long as a choice exists these ‘different’ stores are okay, and just that for those that need or want them. But it is indicative of the way things are going. Look at social services etc, now only accessible online I understand. This is where the concern lies.

Izzy

Do you mean social services or social security? The latter system is indeed "Digital by default"; you need access to some sort of computing device to claim benefits, and to comply with the orders that the DWP give you; hence all these lazy unemployed people with smartphones.

 

[APOLLO]

2 hours ago, Ozexpatriate said:

The data mining will be extended to the way customers interact with each and every product.

 

So they plan to fit microchips in toilet rolls ? !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

 

Brit15

[tigerburnie]

Will I gets these chips with my fish?

[Clive Mortimore]

1 hour ago, 62613 said:

Do you mean social services or social security? The latter system is indeed "Digital by default"; you need access to some sort of computing device to claim benefits, and to comply with the orders that the DWP give you; hence all these lazy unemployed people with smartphones.

 

I hope you will edit this post.

 

I have been unemployed, it is degrading, going to the job center the staff make you feel worthless, and attitudes like yours do not help. 

 

Most unemployed people are not lazy they unfortunate.

 

I hope that you never are in the position of having to sign on, if you are then I think your outlook on life will change.

[jjb1970]

3 hours ago, Ozexpatriate said:

Supermarket chains have been data harvesting their customers for years. This is true if they use a loyalty card of course, but I suspect it is also true with any electronic payment - pending local privacy laws of course.

 

The Amazon approach takes the data harvesting to a whole new level. The data mining will be extended to the way customers interact with each and every product.

 

The supermarket industry has been doing this for years relative to product placement on shelves and planned layouts with the milk and eggs at the rear of the store to make sure you have to pass through the whole store doing the milk run.  Suppliers pay more for premium locations in the store  - in particular high volume products like drink distributors,  The difference here is that every interaction goes into the data mining - not just studies funded by consultants.

 

I am getting to the point where I probably need a tin foil hat. In my youth I was very much of the "if you have nothing to hide then you have nothing to be scared of" view on snooping and data mining. Now I look at how so much of what we do is closely monitored by the state and corporate entities and find it could very easily lead to somewhere deeply sinister. I can already imagine us introducing a Chinese type of social credit system. Of course we will be assured it is only about rewarding "good" behaviour and not an impingement on freedom etc but people opting not to conform will very quickly find themselves marginalised. 

[34theletterbetweenB&D]

14 minutes ago, jjb1970 said:

... I can already imagine us introducing a Chinese type of social credit system. Of course we will be assured it is only about rewarding "good" behaviour and not an impingement on freedom etc but people opting not to conform will very quickly find themselves marginalised. 

There's no need to import a system that we already have. It's called 'money'.

[Fat Controller]

3 hours ago, tigerburnie said:

It was a law in the uk that you had to be paid within 7 days of earning your wages in coinage of the realm(cash), the law was repealed as employers wanted to move away from handling cash weekly and move to paying staff directly into a bank, usually monthly, this saved the employer a lot of money.

The 'Truck Act' was originally intended to stop companies paying employees in  currency that could only be used at shops designated by the company. Such stores were effectively local monopolies, and a cash cow for the owners.  Some older members will remember this Tennessee Ernie Ford song, based on American experiences, but equally true of the UK one:-

'you load sixteen tons, what do you get?
another day older and deeper in debt
saint peter don't you call me 'cause i can't go
i owe my soul to the company store'

 

[Metr0Land]

1 hour ago, APOLLO said:

 

So they plan to fit microchips in toilet rolls ? !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

 

Brit15

 

Already happening matey!

 

https://www.researchgate.net/publication/316717848_Personal_identification_system_based_on_rotation_of_toilet_paper_rolls

[Porkscratching]

Yikes!... I rest my case

[Talltim]

1 hour ago, Clive Mortimore said:

I hope you will edit this post.

 

I have been unemployed, it is degrading, going to the job center the staff make you feel worthless, and attitudes like yours do not help. 

 

Most unemployed people are not lazy they unfortunate.

 

I hope that you never are in the position of having to sign on, if you are then I think your outlook on life will change.

I read it as mocking those that complain about unemployed people ‘doing nothing but being able to afford smart phones’ and explaining the reason that unemployed people pretty much have spend some of the little money they have on internet access.

[Sir TophamHatt]

Amazon are trialling a shop like this.

You go in, it detects your phone (and thus you), cameras detect what you choose, it charges you automatically on the way out.

 

The difference is, I don't think Amazon plan to roll it out full scale.  After reading, I got the feeling it was purely an indugence of technology testing.

 

I am all for not accepting cash in certain places though.

I barely use cash these days and wish everywhere would accept card.

I get concerned when going to food outlets or shops inside preserved railways or at local events as they may not accept card.  Car boots is obvious though!

With free cash machines reducing and young people seemingly using cash less and less, within 20 years I bet they'll be a lot more places that simply don't accept cash.

 

With the small gadgets you can buy that take contactless payments, there's no excuse not to accept card anywhere.

[kevinlms]

3 hours ago, 62613 said:

Prior to the truck acts, employers quite often paid their in tokens, only redeemable at a store owned by the same employer; you were forced to buy your often substandard groceries, etc., from your employer, usually at prices that meant you were permanently in debt to them (I owe my soul to the company store). This was called "Truck". The acts were passed in the early 1840s, and basically stated that employees must be paid in cash rather than kind. The other offshoot, in England, was that a group of workers in Rochdale clubbed together to buy goods wholesale and distributed among themselves at reduced prices. a proportion of the profits at year end were redistributed to all the members as a dividend. What could possibly go wrong with that idea in modern Get Rich Quick Britain?

 

Sadly those days are coming back, where employers don't pay their staff properly. It is becoming a major problem in Australia, with people getting paid cash at well below minimum wages & no overtime pay at all, let alone penalty rates.

Amongst the worst offenders, are those expensive restaurants, of which the owners/head chef are well known international celebrities, that you might see on TV shows, such as Masterchef.

 

Exactly how these people are supposed to shop at new style supermarkets, with all the gadgetry, is beyond me. Some businesses are forgetting that their employees, are potential customers one day.

[tigerburnie]

How long for those who make card scanning machines or those who are stealing keyless cars with electronic gismos are emptying your bank account without you even knowing it?

[Geoff Endacott]

3 hours ago, 62613 said:

 ...a group of workers in Rochdale clubbed together to buy goods wholesale...

 

Hence 47539.

 

Geoff Endacott

[phil-b259]

4 hours ago, tigerburnie said:

It was a law in the uk that you had to be paid within 7 days of earning your wages in coinage of the realm(cash), the law was repealed as employers wanted to move away from handling cash weekly and move to paying staff directly into a bank, usually monthly, this saved the employer a lot of money.

 

It also meant less chance of workers being robbed,  cash being stolen or those in charge of delivering the cash being assaulted! Those people who go round replenish ATMs etc don't wear head protection for the fun of it.

 

Yes it obviously did result in significant monetary savings for companies - but to an extent it also helped workers as the act of having to withdraw the cash to use it rather than have in thrust straight into the pocket helps give the opportunity to consider your spending patterns.

 

 

[Talltim]

You also got paid if you weren’t in on payday, off sick, on holiday, away for work, etc